New Stadium Details And Discussions

davidmatzdorf said:

If we accept that the mooted changes to the stadium design consist, as the club stated, of internal re-planning, then the development team is probably stuck into the mountain of work associated with turning a planning-consent scheme into a fully detailed design, suitable for issuing to contractors for tendering. Even if it is a design-and-build contract (which I expect it will be), it still takes months for multiple consultants to get all of the drawings and specifications ready to issue a tender invitation for a development of this magnitude.

Then the tendering period is likely to be about a month. Then the cost consultants have to digest the tenders and report back recommending which tender should be accepted - that's another few weeks. Then the club has to decide whether to accept the recommendation. Then there will be amendments and (probably) negotiations with the contractors to reduce the cost by amending the specification - that could be a fortnight, or, if the tenders are much too high, it could take a couple of months. Then the contract gets awarded. Then, assuming that financing is in place, we get an announcement.

In the meantime, there's nothing to report except 'we're still working', so why do people expect the club to issue another statement every few weeks/months?

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Based on the above and the timeline to date, what is your best guess as to what stage we are at yet. Accepted we have no idea when the amended designs are/were signed off?

Thanks for the post davidmatcdorf, very informative.

I don't expect an announcement of when construction will be begin but...as sad it sounds, I just want an update on where things stand with the new stadium. As for people saying the last announcement was November I have disagree as that's about the Sainsburys not the New Stadium.

Things like getting finance and tender saughted out I can understand but when you read this e-mail from David Keirle to a poster on the forum Skyscrapercity four months ago

The KSS stadium was always designed to be able to increase capacity, once the transport proposals had been proven. The bowl was design to accommodate this.

We are no longer working on the Stadium scheme and have not done so for a year.

I understand that Populous are designing a completely new stadium based around NFL and Football. I understand that their Stadium will be much higher and very different to our design, incorporating a large sliding pitch!

Work cannot start on any stadium until the CPO issues, which are still outstanding, are resolved and Spurs would have to apply for a new planning permission for a much higher Populous stadium and a stadium with a much higher capacity (65,000 in NFL mode, I understand). Not straight forward. I would think a start on site in the second half of 2014 is very challenging

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Then you have every right to be worried and in need of updates/answers.

ginola99 said:

Things like getting finance and tender saughted out I can understand but when you read this e-mail from David Keirle to a poster on the forum Skyscrapercity four months ago


Then you have every right to be worried and in need of updates/answers.

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I'm not worried that the Populous redesign and NFL link up might happen.

I'm worried that it might NOT happen!

If it does, I think it very possible that we will end up with a bigger, better stadium that will either earn us far more or cost us far less. Or both.

I'm not worried about that either. My main concern is if there's problems with the original design then what are those problems and how long will it take to make them right or go with a new design?

One way or another we are Tottenham, nothing is ever easy or simple, and tbh we wouldn't have it any other way

ginola99 said:

I'm not worried about that either. My main concern is if there's problems with the original design then what are those problems and how long will it take to make them right or go with a new design?

One way or another we are Tottenham, nothing is ever easy or simple, and tbh we wouldn't have it any other way

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I don't think there are any problems with the original design. Nothing major, anyway.

It's just that, if this NFL story is true, then Populous have been given a brief to design a stadium that is very different to that which KSS designed.

Levy wants this stadium as much if not more than we do. I trust him to deliver and not leave us in a finacial mess.
Remember we have been non stop building for a few years now, the training ground, the sainsbury's all brought in on budget.
We're impatient because we think it will be the gateway to glory and hopefully it will be. But it takes time.

mano-obe said:

Barca are going to increase their stadium by an extra 6000 capacity for £495m!

Let's hope Levy can work his magic and get a 61,000 seater stadium for 350m sponsored by Holsten!!

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They are doing a hell alot more work than us, its cheaper to build a new 105,000 seater stadium than to change one and pretty much rebuild it

ginola99 said:

I don't expect an announcement of when construction will be begin but...as sad it sounds, I just want an update on where things stand with the new stadium. As for people saying the last announcement was November I have disagree as that's about the Sainsburys not the New Stadium.

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The Northern Development, which includes Sainsbury's, is phase one of the overall regeneration scheme. The stadium, along with the refurbished listed buildings and (I think) the piazza, is phase two. The residential blocks and the hotel (if it is included in the final version) form phase three. The planning consent includes detailed consent for phases one and two and outline consent for phase three. The last phase will have to be the subject of another planning application, which I think will happen when that part of the development has been amended to take account of changing market conditions.

ginola99 said:

Things like getting finance and tender sorted out I can understand but when you read this e-mail from David Keirle to a poster on the forum Skyscrapercity four months ago...

...Then you have every right to be worried and in need of updates/answers.

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David Keirle had just been told that his firm was being removed from the job when he said that. He was very peeved and I reckon he was also interested in saving face. Large pinch of salt required.

See my post a few pages ago about the commonplace practice of replacing the concept-architects with project-architects at this stage of a development. I think that's a more plausible reason for KSS to be replaced than a total redesign, which would set the project back several years and would require a fresh planning application.

ginola99 said:

My main concern is if there's problems with the original design then what are those problems and how long will it take to make them right or go with a new design?

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I don't see any reason to assume that there are serious problems with the original design. There have been no leaks or rumours to that effect. Even if I'm wrong about the reason why KSS were replaced, it's more likely that the objective of any changes is to make the development more profitable, to value-engineer it and perhaps to fit in a few more seats. KSS are experienced stadium architects. It would be remarkable if there were serious flaws in their concept design that could not be overcome without starting again.

There are always problems to solve at this stage of any development, because the concept design is carried out in the absence of a lot of technical information about site conditions, because the market conditions change constantly and because some ideas prove to be impractical when you examine the details. You solve these problems as you go along and anyone who works in development wouldn't be surprised to encounter them. There isn't a development that goes up without encountering problems along the way. Buildings, even small ones, are too complicated for that and this one is right up there on the mega-complicated end of the scale.

I have no useful information to contribute about the availability of finance and the naming rights. They're at least as likely to cause a delay in the start of works on phase two as any changes in the stadium design.

davidmatzdorf said:

I don't see any reason to assume that there are serious problems with the original design. There have been no leaks or rumours to that effect. Even if I'm wrong about the reason why KSS were replaced, it's more likely that the objective of any changes is to make the development more profitable, to value-engineer it and perhaps to fit in a few more seats. KSS are experienced stadium architects. It would be remarkable if there were serious flaws in their concept design that could not be overcome without starting again.

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Thanks for your thoughts. One thing that still doesn't quite make sense and has been said here a few times is why Keirle would be so pissed off and spreading rumours about a different stadium design if the stadium will remain relatively unchanged. Other than a loss of income from further involvement in the project, the stadium is essentially his and he would be immensely proud of that.

LeSoupeKitchen said:

Thanks for your thoughts. One thing that still doesn't quite make sense and has been said here a few times is why Keirle would be so pissed off and spreading rumours about a different stadium design if the stadium will remain relatively unchanged. Other than a loss of income from further involvement in the project, the stadium is essentially his and he would be immensely proud of that.

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Maybe a bit of the Boris bikes syndrome.
Ken Livingstone proposed the idea, but Boris implemented it, who remembers it was Ken's idea everybody knows them as Boris's bikes.

"Credit for developing and enacting the scheme has been a source of debate. Johnson has taken credit for the plan,[7] although the initial concept was announced by his predecessor Ken Livingstone, during the latter's term in office.[8] "

Kalim said:

Maybe a bit of the Boris bikes syndrome.
Ken Livingstone proposed the idea, but Boris implemented it, who remembers it was Ken's idea everybody knows them as Boris's bikes.

"Credit for developing and enacting the scheme has been a source of debate. Johnson has taken credit for the plan,[7] although the initial concept was announced by his predecessor Ken Livingstone, during the latter's term in office.[8] "

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Possibly, but there's a difference between coming up with a pretty obvious idea like having communal bikes in the city and an actual unique stadium design. The implementation of the bikes idea is actually the challenging part - the idea is obvious. A bit like the Ali G sketch where he had the idea that it would be good if there was something like the playstation but better - and then was annoyed that Sony ripped off his idea by releasing the Playstation 2.

Could it just be that DL is delaying the building so that the stadium is finished in the year of the Rooster, which starts on 28th January 2017?

Sorry, I'll get my coat.

a bit from edmonton tonight:
Sorry not more to report.
CPO on archway not yet granted. No stadium without the cpo
Daniel saying publicly and privately that work will start this year.
My view for what it's worth is that is optimistic.
The redesign of the stadium is better than I expected. Will be much better than the emirates for the features fans appreciate.

"features fans appreciate" flame thowers on the roof for when we score, a hooters for pre-post match pint and a keebab for the walk home.
I love you daniel.

dovahkiin said:

a bit from edmonton tonight:
Sorry not more to report.
CPO on archway not yet granted. No stadium without the cpo
Daniel saying publicly and privately that work will start this year.
My view for what it's worth is that is optimistic.
The redesign of the stadium is better than I expected. Will be much better than the emirates for the features fans appreciate.

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Dovah, on this site, you truly are a Godsend. Thanks for whoring this info, mate

Isn't the guy from Archway a complete Arsehole? A Gooner too if I recall

Are we taking the redesign to mean internal changes then?

absolute bobbins said:

Isn't the guy from Archway a complete Arsehole? A Gooner too if I recall

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DEFINITE Arsehole, as for who he supports, I'm pretty sure I read on here that his family are a mixture of Gooners & Bin Dippers? Would certainly explain alot!!

LeSoupeKitchen said:

Are we taking the redesign to mean internal changes then?

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I wouldn't because the design for the exterior was shit, don't get me wrong it wasn't very bad but when you read us saying we want to make the best stadium in the world well then it was shit.

Well the design wasn't even the best new design in the city, I think we need a design similar to chelsea for Battersea!

Taken from the CV of a firm of lawyers :

Project: Northumberland Park Compulsory Purchase Order
Client: London Borough of Haringey

We have advised the London Borough of Haringey on a Compulsory Purchase Order to facilitate the regeneration of North Tottenham which
will involve the construction of a new football stadium for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club and much needed housing. The CPO Inquiry was held in April 2013 and the Secretary of State’s decision is anticipated in early 2014.

http://www.asserson.co.uk/assets/london-planning-brochure.pdf

Anyone want to give Eric Pickles a nudge ?