Tottenham Vs Swansea: Match Thread

LexingtonSpurs said:

I got this one - No, because they don't play for Chelsea?

What do I win?

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A sarcasm detector meter.

Anyone can post the goals please?

Spurger King said:

Seems like there's no middle ground with some on here. Everything has to be 'super smashing great' or else you're tarred with the negativity brush. I'm all for some positivity, but a few on here behave like hyperactive children getting over-excited, instead of adopting a more realistic approach.

We're a hell of a long way from the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes, so it's not surprising that some will measure our current position against that high watermark. In a couple of years we've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential' not unlike Jol's Spurs. We didn't capitalise on our higher profile in the football world when we had the chance (can you imagine a player of Moutinho's or Hazard's quality even considering mentioning the possibility - however remote- of joining us now?). We sold our best players and either downgraded or took big gambles that for the most part don't look like paying off. We got into a great position and blew it. I'm convinced of that. So I completely understand where you're coming from. We've taken five steps back, but some are throwing a party because we look like we might take one step forward? Seems like a perpetual small-time mentality, and there's nothing wrong with expecting us to be progressing instead of treading water.

On the other hand I do see some real signs of positivity under Pochettino. In an ideal world we'll all look back on this season as the start of a new era, where our young players develop together as a real team and push us to the next level (well...I say "next level" but really I mean the level we were at two or three seasons ago). That's the hope, and there's every indication that this group of players is capable of it.

Unfortunately a few people on here seem to think that this possibility is now an inevitability, when most of us know that's not how football works. Lloris won't stay at a 'developing' squad if we're not in the mix at the top of the table. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Likewise Eriksen, and possibly Vertonghen if he recaptures his form long enough to be of interest to more successful teams. Football these days is always a race against time. Improve quicker than the teams around you, be successful enough to keep your best players for a little longer, and when you get to the level you want to be you need to keep investing and developing in order to stay there.

We've show glimpses of what we are capable of under Pochettino, but unless those glimpses start turning into the standard, we'll lose players and have to start all over again.

For the record I won't consider this season a failure if we continue to show signs of improvement and finish somewhere in the top six (which seems like a bit of a push right now). If that happens to be enough to keep our best players here I'd see anything other than a top four finish next season a huge disappointment.

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Players come and go, its the framework and foundations at the Club that are important. We have to be able to cope with losing players - and we will continue to lose them over time, that won't change until we're reaping the rewards of a bigger stadium way down the line.

What's far more important in the interim, and beyond, is that we get to a place under Pochettino, that losing a good player here and there won't set us back. The aim should be to have a playing style/identity that sees us greater than the sum of our individual parts irrespective who's playing any given week, and the whole squad are adept to slotting in so we're never in a position to be over reliant on one or two individuals.

So I don't see its a case if we lose Lloris, Vertonghen or Eriksen we're having to start all over again. Far from it, we'll move on and bring in others, approved and sourced by Mitchell, who will be suitable for the framework established under Pochettino.

The most pertinent point of all is that we're putting structures in place at the Club that are complimenting one another, or so it certainly appears. That surely is the most important aspect for the long term future, not worrying about keeping certain players who may or may not be cherry picked if the big Clubs bat their eye lashes.

Its the working relationships behind the scenes and the faith and confidence placed in Pochettino and his ideas - that's what's important, as that is much more likely to impact on whether his work will come to fruition and consequently how successful we are under him.

Spurger King said:

Seems like there's no middle ground with some on here. Everything has to be 'super smashing great' or else you're tarred with the negativity brush. I'm all for some positivity, but a few on here behave like hyperactive children getting over-excited, instead of adopting a more realistic approach.

We're a hell of a long way from the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes, so it's not surprising that some will measure our current position against that high watermark. In a couple of years we've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential' not unlike Jol's Spurs. We didn't capitalise on our higher profile in the football world when we had the chance (can you imagine a player of Moutinho's or Hazard's quality even considering mentioning the possibility - however remote- of joining us now?). We sold our best players and either downgraded or took big gambles that for the most part don't look like paying off. We got into a great position and blew it. I'm convinced of that. So I completely understand where you're coming from. We've taken five steps back, but some are throwing a party because we look like we might take one step forward? Seems like a perpetual small-time mentality, and there's nothing wrong with expecting us to be progressing instead of treading water.

On the other hand I do see some real signs of positivity under Pochettino. In an ideal world we'll all look back on this season as the start of a new era, where our young players develop together as a real team and push us to the next level (well...I say "next level" but really I mean the level we were at two or three seasons ago). That's the hope, and there's every indication that this group of players is capable of it.

Unfortunately a few people on here seem to think that this possibility is now an inevitability, when most of us know that's not how football works. Lloris won't stay at a 'developing' squad if we're not in the mix at the top of the table. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Likewise Eriksen, and possibly Vertonghen if he recaptures his form long enough to be of interest to more successful teams. Football these days is always a race against time. Improve quicker than the teams around you, be successful enough to keep your best players for a little longer, and when you get to the level you want to be you need to keep investing and developing in order to stay there.

We've show glimpses of what we are capable of under Pochettino, but unless those glimpses start turning into the standard, we'll lose players and have to start all over again.

For the record I won't consider this season a failure if we continue to show signs of improvement and finish somewhere in the top six (which seems like a bit of a push right now). If that happens to be enough to keep our best players here I'd see anything other than a top four finish next season a huge disappointment.

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Really great post. I completely get what you mean about football being a race against time.
The thing is with Redknapp, AVB and Sherwood, the fans have been split. Couple that with the sales of Bale, Modric and Van Der Vaart there has been a real sense that our chance to make waves has passed.
This has created a toxic atmosphere.
So whilst I do agree it is far too early to be bringing out the buntin and making big claims, a cup final and a handful of good performances like on New Year's Day are what the club needed.
And as you say there are parallels between this side and the Jol/Arnesen team. I don't mind that too much, because it was genuinely one of the most exciting times for me as a Spurs fan.

Spurger King said:

Seems like there's no middle ground with some on here. Everything has to be 'super smashing great' or else you're tarred with the negativity brush. I'm all for some positivity, but a few on here behave like hyperactive children getting over-excited, instead of adopting a more realistic approach.

We're a hell of a long way from the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes, so it's not surprising that some will measure our current position against that high watermark. In a couple of years we've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential' not unlike Jol's Spurs. We didn't capitalise on our higher profile in the football world when we had the chance (can you imagine a player of Moutinho's or Hazard's quality even considering mentioning the possibility - however remote- of joining us now?). We sold our best players and either downgraded or took big gambles that for the most part don't look like paying off. We got into a great position and blew it. I'm convinced of that. So I completely understand where you're coming from. We've taken five steps back, but some are throwing a party because we look like we might take one step forward? Seems like a perpetual small-time mentality, and there's nothing wrong with expecting us to be progressing instead of treading water.

On the other hand I do see some real signs of positivity under Pochettino. In an ideal world we'll all look back on this season as the start of a new era, where our young players develop together as a real team and push us to the next level (well...I say "next level" but really I mean the level we were at two or three seasons ago). That's the hope, and there's every indication that this group of players is capable of it.

Unfortunately a few people on here seem to think that this possibility is now an inevitability, when most of us know that's not how football works. Lloris won't stay at a 'developing' squad if we're not in the mix at the top of the table. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Likewise Eriksen, and possibly Vertonghen if he recaptures his form long enough to be of interest to more successful teams. Football these days is always a race against time. Improve quicker than the teams around you, be successful enough to keep your best players for a little longer, and when you get to the level you want to be you need to keep investing and developing in order to stay there.

We've show glimpses of what we are capable of under Pochettino, but unless those glimpses start turning into the standard, we'll lose players and have to start all over again.

For the record I won't consider this season a failure if we continue to show signs of improvement and finish somewhere in the top six (which seems like a bit of a push right now). If that happens to be enough to keep our best players here I'd see anything other than a top four finish next season a huge disappointment.

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How is finishing in the Top 6 a 'push'?- Southampton are struggling now and we'll be above them if we win our game in hand.

Spurger King said:

Seems like there's no middle ground with some on here. Everything has to be 'super smashing great' or else you're tarred with the negativity brush. I'm all for some positivity, but a few on here behave like hyperactive children getting over-excited, instead of adopting a more realistic approach.

We're a hell of a long way from the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes, so it's not surprising that some will measure our current position against that high watermark. In a couple of years we've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential' not unlike Jol's Spurs. We didn't capitalise on our higher profile in the football world when we had the chance (can you imagine a player of Moutinho's or Hazard's quality even considering mentioning the possibility - however remote- of joining us now?). We sold our best players and either downgraded or took big gambles that for the most part don't look like paying off. We got into a great position and blew it. I'm convinced of that. So I completely understand where you're coming from. We've taken five steps back, but some are throwing a party because we look like we might take one step forward? Seems like a perpetual small-time mentality, and there's nothing wrong with expecting us to be progressing instead of treading water.

On the other hand I do see some real signs of positivity under Pochettino. In an ideal world we'll all look back on this season as the start of a new era, where our young players develop together as a real team and push us to the next level (well...I say "next level" but really I mean the level we were at two or three seasons ago). That's the hope, and there's every indication that this group of players is capable of it.

Unfortunately a few people on here seem to think that this possibility is now an inevitability, when most of us know that's not how football works. Lloris won't stay at a 'developing' squad if we're not in the mix at the top of the table. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Likewise Eriksen, and possibly Vertonghen if he recaptures his form long enough to be of interest to more successful teams. Football these days is always a race against time. Improve quicker than the teams around you, be successful enough to keep your best players for a little longer, and when you get to the level you want to be you need to keep investing and developing in order to stay there.

We've show glimpses of what we are capable of under Pochettino, but unless those glimpses start turning into the standard, we'll lose players and have to start all over again.

For the record I won't consider this season a failure if we continue to show signs of improvement and finish somewhere in the top six (which seems like a bit of a push right now). If that happens to be enough to keep our best players here I'd see anything other than a top four finish next season a huge disappointment.

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I agree with pretty much this whole post apart from the last paragraph, top 6 this season really doesn't seem "a bit of a push" to me considering it either us or the faltering Southampton going for it, and I'm still not expecting top 4 next season unless we invest properly during the summer, as long as we're in the top 4 conversation as it were I won't be hugely disappointed.

Mr Pink said:

Players come and go, its the framework and foundations at the Club that are important. We have to be able to cope with losing players - and we will continue to lose them over time, that won't change until we're reaping the rewards of a bigger stadium way down the line.

What's far more important in the interim, and beyond, is that we get to a place under Pochettino, that losing a good player here and there won't set us back. The aim should be to have a playing style/identity that sees us greater than the sum of our individual parts irrespective who's playing any given week, and the whole squad are adept to slotting in so we're never in a position to be over reliant on one or two individuals.

So I don't see its a case if we lose Lloris, Vertonghen or Eriksen we're having to start all over again. Far from it, we'll move on and bring in others, approved and sourced by Mitchell, who will be suitable for the framework established under Pochettino.

The most pertinent point of all is that we're putting structures in place at the Club that are complimenting one another, or so it certainly appears. That surely is the most important aspect for the long term future, not worrying about keeping certain players who may or may not be cherry picked if the big Clubs bat their eye lashes.

Its the working relationships behind the scenes and the faith and confidence placed in Pochettino and his ideas - that's what's important, as that is much more likely to impact on whether his work will come to fruition and consequently how successful we are under him.

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In theory. We really have no idea if that will be the case, and if some sources are to be believed, Mitchell was just one cog in Southampton's talent spotting machine - no guarantee that anyone we bring in will be a perfect fit (as if there ever is).

I agree that consistency is important though, which is why I'd like to see Pochettino given some meaningful time at the club. He's doing exactly what I've wanted us to do for a while - building on youth so that the team has the best chance of evolving as a genuine team, rather than just a series of interchangeable individuals. One would hope that players like Kane and Mason would show more loyalty to the club too, which would hopefully instil some much needed identity to the club again.

I just can't blame people for questioning why the club has allowed itself to blow such a great opportunity in favour of what currently constitutes a hope rather than a certainty. Being back to where we were six years ago isn't a reason to be cheerful, even if there are signs that this is only a temporary setback.

Having said that, I appreciate that Pochettino had to take a step backwards to put his system in place. He won't have that luxury next season. Next season progress will need to translate into tangible results - not promising signs here and there. As I said, I'd like him to be given some meaningful time, but we all know that if things stagnate the bulk of the fans will start creating a toxic atmosphere again.

Hotspur33 said:

Really great post. I completely get what you mean about football being a race against time.
The thing is with Redknapp, AVB and Sherwood, the fans have been split. Couple that with the sales of Bale, Modric and Van Der Vaart there has been a real sense that our chance to make waves has passed.
This has created a toxic atmosphere.
So whilst I do agree it is far too early to be bringing out the buntin and making big claims, a cup final and a handful of good performances like on New Year's Day are what the club needed.
And as you say there are parallels between this side and the Jol/Arnesen team. I don't mind that too much, because it was genuinely one of the most exciting times for me as a Spurs fan.

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Agreed. Loved seeing us get to a final again, and the performances against Chelsea and Arsenal at the Lane were outstanding. I also remember the Jol days with huge fondness. Of course the difference is that those days were off the back of years of mediocrity, whereas our current side is a shadow of what it was just two/three years ago.

THFCSPURS19 said:

How is finishing in the Top 6 a 'push'?- Southampton are struggling now and we'll be above them if we win our game in hand.

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Because I'm not convinced we'll finish above Southampton, whereas I'm fully expecting Chelsea, Oil Money, Arsenal, Liverpool, and United to all finish higher than us. Sixth is hardly a formality, so we'll need to 'push' hard to achieve it. Comprende?

Spurger King said:

In theory. We really have no idea if that will be the case, and if some sources are to be believed, Mitchell was just one cog in Southampton's talent spotting machine - no guarantee that anyone we bring in will be a perfect fit (as if there ever is).

I agree that consistency is important though, which is why I'd like to see Pochettino given some meaningful time at the club. He's doing exactly what I've wanted us to do for a while - building on youth so that the team has the best chance of evolving as a genuine team, rather than just a series of interchangeable individuals. One would hope that players like Kane and Mason would show more loyalty to the club too, which would hopefully instil some much needed identity to the club again.

I just can't blame people for questioning why the club has allowed itself to blow such a great opportunity in favour of what currently constitutes a hope rather than a certainty. Being back to where we were six years ago isn't a reason to be cheerful, even if there are signs that this is only a temporary setback.

Having said that, I appreciate that Pochettino had to take a step backwards to put his system in place. He won't have that luxury next season. Next season progress will need to translate into tangible results - not promising signs here and there. As I said, I'd like him to be given some meaningful time, but we all know that if things stagnate the bulk of the fans will start creating a toxic atmosphere again.



Agreed. Loved seeing us get to a final again, and the performances against Chelsea and Arsenal at the Lane were outstanding. I also remember the Jol days with huge fondness. Of course the difference is that those days were off the back of years of mediocrity, whereas our current side is a shadow of what it was just two/three years ago.

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In regard to your last paragraph I blame Levy for this.

But in a strange sense we have achieved despite this. If we can ( and we will ) keep hold of our Spurs supporting starlets we have the makings of a dynasty. It's all cyclical. Maybe, just maybe our time is coming.

Bill.
Ryan.
Andros.
Danny.
Harry of course.

Add to that.

Eric.
Kyle.
Ben.

And then.

Hugo.
Christian
Chadlification.
Jan.
And maybe Rob too......

There is a strong core. And a good English spine. Mates an' all.

Poch seems to have a decent rapport with them too and they seem to get his 'philosophy'

With a couple of upper level Europa league acquisitions, or possibly a surprise splurge on a decent CL player and a surprise buy or two coupled with lamelas progress and Alex's and Toms inclusion into the squad. We could have something.


Maybe not next as the breakthrough season but maybe the year after.........but that's where it falls down.

We will be gypsies then. Plying our trade wherever.

I just think Levy always gets it wrong. One of the best squads we could have for in three decades with us praying in Milton Keynes.

Who knows. I just like our squad at the mo. And can see how a progressive manager could integrate the right sort of players.

He is still learning though.

Edit. I would like to see Poch given 3 years from next season to achieve this no matter what happens.

Gbspurs said:

I'm going to the game tonight. Hoping for a good performance after weeks of depression! On the bright side, I have been to 2 other home games this season, the 4-0 against QPR and the NYD game against Chelsea so I'm hoping I'm a lucky omen! COYS

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just got home after a long day. another goal fest! Means my aggregate score for the 3 games is now 12 - 5! Anyone who wants to pay for me to attend a home game, feel free!!

Spurger King said:

In theory. We really have no idea if that will be the case, and if some sources are to be believed, Mitchell was just one cog in Southampton's talent spotting machine - no guarantee that anyone we bring in will be a perfect fit (as if there ever is).

I agree that consistency is important though, which is why I'd like to see Pochettino given some meaningful time at the club. He's doing exactly what I've wanted us to do for a while - building on youth so that the team has the best chance of evolving as a genuine team, rather than just a series of interchangeable individuals. One would hope that players like Kane and Mason would show more loyalty to the club too, which would hopefully instil some much needed identity to the club again.

I just can't blame people for questioning why the club has allowed itself to blow such a great opportunity in favour of what currently constitutes a hope rather than a certainty. Being back to where we were six years ago isn't a reason to be cheerful, even if there are signs that this is only a temporary setback.

Having said that, I appreciate that Pochettino had to take a step backwards to put his system in place. He won't have that luxury next season. Next season progress will need to translate into tangible results - not promising signs here and there. As I said, I'd like him to be given some meaningful time, but we all know that if things stagnate the bulk of the fans will start creating a toxic atmosphere again.



Agreed. Loved seeing us get to a final again, and the performances against Chelsea and Arsenal at the Lane were outstanding. I also remember the Jol days with huge fondness. Of course the difference is that those days were off the back of years of mediocrity, whereas our current side is a shadow of what it was just two/three years ago.

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Think you might be being a bit negative.

Yes we certainly took a step backwards, in effect we replaced Modric (£25m was it) with thev likes of Dembele (£16m or so) and then even worse, blew the Bale money in Summer 2013 by buying players who really are not of the quality we needed - none bad players but certainly well over priced and semingly not up for a fight.

However we've arguably lucked it out this season with the emergence of a striker who'se current form makes him look one of Europe's best (but of course we'll only know if that's true in a season or two), Eriksen looks good enough for most big sides, Bentaleb and Mason look better than champions elect Chelsea's CM2 (yes it'll take another season or two for them to improve - they've played less than 50 PL games between them) and Lloris of course is still one of the best goalkeepers in the world. And I'd suggest we have a core squad of about 16 players who are good enough fir a top 4 side - but importantly we have a youth system which will give us 2 or more very good players a year.

Progress is rarely linear, so whilst we did take a step backwards from the side with VDV, Modric and Bale (but remembering Bale really blossomed after Modric had left), we are well on the way to building a side as good as that which we had with Bale at his peak (Kane is already outscoring him for example)), and the side actually has a higher potential than that one - our biggest risk maybe Lloris leaving this summer but he looks genuinely very happy in the company of the likes of Kane, so hopefully will stay for a couple of years (and he's young enough as a GK to do that, even if he wants to join Barco or RM).

So provided we can offload some of our 6 or so unwanted players and bring in 2/3/4 players Poch wants (plus the likes of Pritchard and other youth players) in the summer we can look forward to some good seasons in the next few years.

Spurger King said:

We're a hell of a long way from the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes, so it's not surprising that some will measure our current position against that high watermark.

On the other hand I do see some real signs of positivity under Pochettino. In an ideal world we'll all look back on this season as the start of a new era, where our young players develop together as a real team and push us to the next level (well...I say "next level" but really I mean the level we were at two or three seasons ago). That's the hope, and there's every indication that this group of players is capable of it.

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Folk keep on saying this - but the team that Mr Redknapp inherited from Wandery Ramos was a long way off the quality of the team that got us two top four finishes. The main difference being the team inherited and the one we have now are young, inexperienced teams who haven't had the opportunity to develop under continuity of management, whereas the one that attained two top four finishes had matured, gained experience and played under the same manager for the best part of four seasons. The only difference is that one of those young teams contained players that hindsight shows to have developed into the team that attained two top four finishes. The other one, the current team, we just don't know yet what hindsight will show about it. We'll just have to wait another three seasons to be in a comparable position. And that is precisely my complaint about anyone attempting to compare the current squad that attained two top four finishes. Either wait for this squad to develop and then make a comparison three seasons from now or pretend you don;t have any hindsight and compare this squad to the one Mr Redknapp inherited.

The funny thing is, in the second paragraph, above, you seem to acknowledge that...so, I don't know, it kinda feels like you are arguing against yourself a bit.

In a couple of years we've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential'

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I believe everyone is agreed on that. The question is whether this squad/management have less, the same or greater potential than the one Mr Redknapp inherited. The Million Dollar Question! My personal opinion is dictated as much by my reading of the youth set-up over several years (going right back to the hiring of Mr Arnesen, in fact). If you go back and read my posts in the Under-21 thread - I'm not really expecting you to - you will see that I have been expecting a lot from the age group that is maturing now, i.e. the players that have broken into our first team like a breath of fresh air, and have been saying so for years. The main reason is that they would have been the young scholars most open and susceptible to new methods and the new direction our youth set-up took. These changes were systemic. And, for what its worth, I don't think we are seeing the be-all and end-all of these changes. I believe this age group is just the first fruits - and the current under 21's and under 18's are actually better than this age group. And don;t forget, the current age group still has players like Pritchard, Carroll and Fredericks who could be given a chance in the first team squad from next season (and, I believe, most of us believe at least one of them will).

So, naturally, I think that in itself means that the current squad is in a better position that the one Wandery Ramos left - more likely to be producing regular quality youth and more likely to be given a chance by Mr Pochettino.

We've gone from genuine competitors right back to a team of 'potential' not unlike Jol's Spurs.

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Well, we have, but that was kinda inevitable. When Luka Modric and Gareth Bale, just as Carrick and Berbatov before them, insist that they want out, our choices are limited. As above, the big question for me isn't whether we have sold our best players again, but whether the youth set-up and personnel are more advanced, whether the remains of the squad is better or worse and whether we have a manager/head coach in place to push on or not. I've already answered regarding the youth set-up and personnel; regarding the squad remaining, I think this one is better but I can't prove that. Which makes it, the counter claim that it is worse, or a claim that it is about equal, all matters of opinion and not capable of being substantiated at the present time. As this is the case, I don't see any one of them as being more prone to a claim of realism than any others (though I do believe that my analysis of the youth set-up and personnel does give my opinion a semblance of depth that the claim that they are just not as good seems to lack).

It is interesting that you chose to say unlike Jol's Spurs because I believe, as explained above, you could easily replace Jol with Ramos.

We didn't capitalise on our higher profile in the football world when we had the chance

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I can understand you making that argument. I just don't know that it was ever possible to capitalise in any immediate extent to the level where some seem to imagine we could have. A place where we would have been competing with Chelsea and Citeh only if...! we may have capitalised on it in the longer term sense that it, along with training facilities, reputation, etc., along with the global exposure that team gave us, could have made us a preferred destination for some of the best young talent. But, again, that is only something that time will tell.

(can you imagine a player of Moutinho's or Hazard's quality even considering mentioning the possibility - however remote- of joining us now?).

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Dunno. Not as bothered as some seem to be. Neither came to us anyway...and that is more likely than not to always be the case once top players reach a certain age. But there again I've never given a flying fahook of a monkeys left testicular whether we spend a lot of money on players or not. I care about whether we get the right players. More interested in the quality of our young players and whether we have got any in the same bracket as the above before they ever get to the stage where they will dick us about for months before going to someone who will give them much higher wages (and other emoluments). Do we have any? I dunno...but, there again, neither does anyone else know that yet.

We sold our best players and either downgraded or took big gambles that for the most part don't look like paying off.

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Again, don't believe we can make any definitive answer either way on this yet. I did find it funny, however, having this same discussion with another poster, elsewhere, that he repeated several times that we just didn't have anyone who he could see could develop into the quality of the quartet of Ledders, Modric, VdV and Bale, he then went on to list Lloris, Eriksen, Dier and Kane as players who are close to or could make that level (there may have been another). With the obvious omission of Bentaleb and totally ignoring the fact that VdV wasn't actually part of the squad that Mr Redknapp inherited, but was acquired later. So, you can see why I take these frequent insistence's, that we don't have any or as many of the players who could reach that level in the present squad, with a little pinch of salt.

We've taken five steps back, but some are throwing a party because we look like we might take one step forward?

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I don't know that that is true at all. We were again put in a position where we had to sell our two best players, and took the option to invest in potential. I don't believe anyone is disputing that. But no-one knows yet if the squad we have now will or won't turn out to be one step back for 3 steps forward, just like the one Mr Rekdnapp inherited turned out to be, or whether we really have taken one step back and then stuttered about a bit and fell backwards. What I will say, again, is the youth set-up looks much more advanced now.

Unfortunately a few people on here seem to think that this possibility is now an inevitability,

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They shouldn't. Only continuing hard work and innovation will enable is to maximise anything positive we have about the club right now. There is an interesting post by a Chelsea fan on the under-21's thread. he says he is a big follower of youth football, and fairly non partisan in his liking for the game at that level. In it, he says that United and the Goons have gone from having the best and most productive youth set-ups to ones that are starting to lag behind primarily because they ossified, based on their success, at precisely the same time that clubs like ours began innovating.

So, more hard work, more innovation, please.

Lloris won't stay at a 'developing' squad if we're not in the mix at the top of the table. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. Likewise Eriksen, and possibly Vertonghen if he recaptures his form long enough to be of interest to more successful teams.

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If we beat QPR on Saturday, our game in hand, we will be one point behind Liverpool. It seems to me that these is a whole cultural phenomenon insisting that Liverpool are in full swing for an assault on the top four while feigning that we aren't actually in the mix at the top of the table at all. Strange

Football these days is always a race against time. Improve quicker than the teams around you, be successful enough to keep your best players for a little longer, and when you get to the level you want to be you need to keep investing and developing in order to stay there.

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True. But even United had to sell Ronaldo (Greasy not Fat) when he wanted out, and they had to completely fahook themselves with an astronomical offer in wages when Rooney threatened to pull up stumps and bugger orf.

We've show glimpses of what we are capable of under Pochettino, but unless those glimpses start turning into the standard, we'll lose players and have to start all over again.

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This is another one of those things I feel is being overplayed a bit. Our form was actually really good up until we qualified for the CC final. We had a hectic schedule, and seemed to take our eye of the ball a touch. But that doesn't warrant reinterpreting our good form prior to then as patchy. All it does, for me, is point to immaturity and inexperience, I would hope we would do better if we find ourselves in similar situations in the future, based on this experience gained. I don;t see the early season form as anything other than Poch working out who he could rely on while getting his ideas across.

For the record I won't consider this season a failure if we continue to show signs of improvement and finish somewhere in the top six (which seems like a bit of a push right now).

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I think this, which is what we have done, was agreed by most sensible posters as a fair first season for Poch. As per above, if we beat Rangers at the weekend we are one point behind Liverpool - I really don't see why there is this insistence that finishing in the top six might seem a bit of a push right now, TBH.

Oh, and what Pinky said.

COYS

Will anyone read that?

Mustard said:

Will anyone read that?

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Dunno.
It's not really that much longer than yours (oooeeeeerrrrr, Missus) once you take the quotes out...is it?

It's one of those instances, where I am directly responding to one poster. It's in the public domain so it's fine for other interested parties to read it and respond if they feel the need. But no one is forcing them too. If they think it is too big (ooeeeerrrrr, etc), they can just not read it. The poster it is addressed to does hold a PhD from a British university so I would be somewhat worried if he was intimidated by what can't really be much more than a side of A4 (if you take the quotes out...and depended on font/size)...wouldn't you be?

Don't see why anyone else would feel the need to comment really. Well, I could think of some but I would feel diminished in myself voicing such concerns. I would prefer to think of you as a good man, a decent man. But don't worry, I won't think any less of you if you don't read it, it is, after, directly responding to Spurger, whose post I quoted.

Ta.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

#soz

Mustard said:

#soz

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Hey, we won (eventually, by the skin of our teeth, after making it far harder for ourselves that it really should have been...just for a change!)...so it's all good Bud

Now, if we had lost...

StartingPrice said:

Hey, we won (eventually, by the skin of our teeth, after making it far harder for ourselves that it really should have been...just for a change!)...so it's all good Bud

Now, if we had lost...

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Would have been bad.

It's becoming more Americanised by the minute. We've got people fainting on the pitch just to put us off.

It's not on!

Mustard said:

Would have been bad.

It's becoming more Americanised by the minute. We've got people fainting on the pitch just to put us off.

It's not on!

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Kinda ironic that, given that so many Americans are turned off by the game because of the rampant diving.

Everlasting Seconds said:

Amongst the teams who are not in the bottom 3, only 4 have conceded more goals than us. We are 13th in least conceded goals.

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Not a great stat and certainly one that will ensure no top four football.

Bobbins said:

It's actually surprising how often goal difference is indicative of actual relative performance.

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Whether it is or isnt we have at least started to develop some sort of identity and the manager has done well with what he has had to work with.
But he does need to get hold of this team defensivley as conceding the amount we hinder Our chances for anything next year.