Franco Baldini

DaSpurs · Apr 27, 2015

jezz said:
Selling a world class player for 85 million had nothing to do with finishing one place lower the next season?
Got any evidence to support Baldini being pushed out the door?
I've seen zero evidence, Infact didn't he offer to leave and that was rejected.
Abject failure?
Come on that would be 100 million wasted.
I don't think Eriksen, Chadli or Lamela are going anywhere.
Capoue and Chiriches won't be sold at a loss.
That leaves Soldado and Paulinho, Yes I think we will take a hit but I don't think Bobby cost 26 million and we will probably lose 10 million on Paulinho.
Weren't you saying Man City didn't do anything for 4 years when the oil money came in?
Yes mistakes were made but all 7 of those signings have contributed to this season.
We've reached Wembley and had a good shout of CL football until a month or so ago.

- We sold one world class player and spent 100 million pounds in replacing him, yet finished sixth despite finishing above Man U for the first time in decades. I hardly view that as excusable, and I suspect the board would agree given the sweeping changes. There's a very obvious reason so many of those players we brought in have lost their value.

- Baldini was in charge of player recruitment that summer. We have ITK saying he's no longer involved, news reports from guys with ins such as Stobart saying Baldini is on the outs, the board being coy as hell when asked directly about Baldini's role in meetings with the THST, and the fact we've literally replaced the functions we do know of (player recruitment) with entirely new personnel. I hardly find this debatable if I'm honest.

- Yes, it was an abject failure, hence the complete redirection of the transfer policy and entirely new recruitment/scouting personnel brought in. You don't overhaul an entire system just because it was "meh," even if you're Daniel Levy.

- Capoue and Chiriches will most certainly be sold at losses. If we receive a 20+m bid for Lamela this summer, I would be very surprised to see the board/Poch not consider it very closely. I know that would break your heart, but that's the reality of business. I don't think they'll 100% agree to it, but you better believe they'll be well-tempted. I agree though that Eriksen and Chadli will be here next season.

- Why are we talking about Oil City's past? The point was that they do spend extravagantly, and they were the singly only club in the entire league to spend more than us that summer, and we still went backwards. If you run a business in which you invest 100 million GBP and you go backwards, and yet furthermore deem that acceptable, I don't suspect that would be a business for long at all. Levy knows that, hence why he's scrapped the blueprints that caused that investment loss in the first place.

- Yeah, we've had a good season, after we pushed out nearly all of those signings and replaced them with our own youth or considerably cheaper signings from this past summer. Capoue isn't playing, Soldado isn't playing, Chiriches isn't playing, Paulinho isn't playing... that's over 60 million pounds hanging on our pinewood (or not even making the bloody squad), and playing the very odd game for only a couple of them. Our record signing cost nearly 30 million pounds and he's scored two goals in the league this season. Even the ones who are producing, Chadli and Eriksen, have each been undoubtedly very inconsistent this season. Yes, we have done alright this term, but it is absolutely not due to the summer of 2013. If anything, we're still recovering from it and have fared well despite it.

Indacupfortottenham · Apr 27, 2015

chinaman said:
Haven't you been taught in maths that 2 negatives mean a positive?

In mathematics yes, but in life not so much - 'two wrongs, don't make a right".

Indacupfortottenham · Apr 27, 2015

I think the fundamental flaw with the players we brought in from the Bale cash was, that not one of them had shown their worth in the PL.

Everlasting Seconds · Apr 27, 2015

Indacupfortottenham said:
I think the fundamental flaw with the players we brought in from the Bale cash was, that not one of them had shown their worth in the PL.

Numerous PL to PL transfers don't work out. I think that entire theory is a red herring, a smoke screen, an attempt at explaining something incomprehensible. Did Lloris, Vertonghen, have PL experience when they came? van der Vaart? Modric?
Dempsey did. Sigurdsson did. Dembele did.

Indacupfortottenham · Apr 27, 2015

Everlasting Seconds said:
Numerous PL to PL transfers don't work out. I think that entire theory is a red herring, a smoke screen, an attempt at explaining something incomprehensible. Did Lloris, Vertonghen, have PL experience when they came? van der Vaart? Modric?
Dempsey did. Sigurdsson did. Dembele did.

I get your point, but seven in one window! Far easier to help one or two adapt to a new way of life and football than seven.

Everlasting Seconds · Apr 27, 2015

Indacupfortottenham said:
I get your point, but seven in one window! Far easier to help one or two adapt to a new way of life and football than seven.

There certainly was an imbalance, that's true. But on the other hand, the "worst" players from that season IMO wasn't the actual the new signings. I think players who were already at the club had a worse season in 2013/2014. For instance, those 7 players were responsible for quite the ratio of our total goal tally.

spursfan77 · Apr 27, 2015

Trix posted this about baldini back in March on coys, it's what I've always thought his role at the club is.

"
It's worth remembering Baldini isn't and never has been a DOF, responsible for identifying the playing staff, although I am sure he did have an influence in both Lamela and Vlad as it was well known at the time they were both on the Roma radar aswell. Every player we bought in that summer though came with big reputations, as all of them had been very successful at their previous clubs. The issue is/was that some of them just don't seem to have adapted to the Prem. This is exactly the reason Mitchell(who Baldini pushed for) was brought in. His role is to do all the analytical ground work to ensure those we buy have a greater chance of succeeding for us. He will of course still be part of the transfer process, but we now have a team in place to work together to find our targets. Never gets mentioned but he has played a key role in trying to turn the club around, and his role in trying to change the entire philosophy of the club from the ground up is significant.

Our amazing lack of injuries for instance is not just down to MP's training regime. Since Baldini's arrival there has been an overhaul of dietary and medical procedures. Our youth sides all follow the same regimes, rules and regulations as the seniors and the amount of tournament football they are playing is also in large down to Baldini. You mention Lamela and Vlad, but stealing Dier on the cheap was also him and his extensive list of contacts.

I think the main issue with Baldini is people don't understand his role at the club( I don't really know all he does). They automatically see him as a DOF and assume he does the buying and selling ala Comolli but his role at the club is technical director and is actually very very different."

Wirral Spurs · Apr 27, 2015

His signings had either no real pace or no brains. This is what we need to correct this summer.

Everlasting Seconds · Apr 27, 2015

spursfan77 said:
Trix posted this about baldini back in March on coys, it's what I've always thought his role at the club is.

"
It's worth remembering Baldini isn't and never has been a DOF, responsible for identifying the playing staff, although I am sure he did have an influence in both Lamela and Vlad as it was well known at the time they were both on the Roma radar aswell. Every player we bought in that summer though came with big reputations, as all of them had been very successful at their previous clubs. The issue is/was that some of them just don't seem to have adapted to the Prem. This is exactly the reason Mitchell(who Baldini pushed for) was brought in. His role is to do all the analytical ground work to ensure those we buy have a greater chance of succeeding for us. He will of course still be part of the transfer process, but we now have a team in place to work together to find our targets. Never gets mentioned but he has played a key role in trying to turn the club around, and his role in trying to change the entire philosophy of the club from the ground up is significant.

Our amazing lack of injuries for instance is not just down to MP's training regime. Since Baldini's arrival there has been an overhaul of dietary and medical procedures. Our youth sides all follow the same regimes, rules and regulations as the seniors and the amount of tournament football they are playing is also in large down to Baldini. You mention Lamela and Vlad, but stealing Dier on the cheap was also him and his extensive list of contacts.

I think the main issue with Baldini is people don't understand his role at the club( I don't really know all he does). They automatically see him as a DOF and assume he does the buying and selling ala Comolli but his role at the club is technical director and is actually very very different."

I always thought he came with slim to no scouting responsibility, and a heap load of responsibility for closing the deals the transfer committee settled on. Interesting to hear him credited for the low amount of injuries, I didn't expect that (allthough a part of the injury statistics is due to Spurs simply not reporting/broadcasting injuries this season at all, save for Lloris & Walker).

spursfan77 · Apr 27, 2015

And also he posted this in another thread. I thought it worth posting on here from Coys as it might help others understand the guys role.

"The issue is he is thought/seen by thevast majority to be the "Director of Football", which is a position that is widely recognised as one who identifies, and then buys the players when in fact that is not his role at all. He is employed by the club as a "technical director" and whilst he does have an input into transfers, that is merely part of his role.

This role is explained in part here where the Norwich CE explains the difference between the roles........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27590933

And again here slightly better here...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwic...rwich_city_s_new_technical_director_1_3615028

Does anyone seriously believe (knowing how Levy operates) that if Baldini was responsible for signing all those players and nothing else he'd still be here? I have to be honest I don't have specific details as to what exactly he has changed or is responsible for, but I was told he has been a key player in our new youth strategy/academy (I posted about it being Baldini that was pushing for Mitchell for instance at the time we were enquiring). There were others convinced he was getting the bullet all the way back as far as October last year, butas I posted all along it was not the case at all(from what I had heard), and he is still here.

I just think he deserves to be cut a bit of slack because at the moment he is constantly being blamed for stuff that has happened, when in reality all he is guilty of is not having the job that many believe he has."

225 · Apr 27, 2015

"Spurs fans in irrational misplaced blame shocker!"

NEVILLEB · Apr 27, 2015

Everlasting Seconds said:
It exceedingly hard for a part owner to get fired.

I agree. I'd just like him to admit his mistakes but he doesn't answer to us.

jezz · Apr 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
- We sold one world class player and spent 100 million pounds in replacing him, yet finished sixth despite finishing above Man U for the first time in decades. I hardly view that as excusable, and I suspect the board would agree given the sweeping changes. There's a very obvious reason so many of those players we brought in have lost their value.

- Baldini was in charge of player recruitment that summer. We have ITK saying he's no longer involved, news reports from guys with ins such as Stobart saying Baldini is on the outs, the board being coy as hell when asked directly about Baldini's role in meetings with the THST, and the fact we've literally replaced the functions we do know of (player recruitment) with entirely new personnel. I hardly find this debatable if I'm honest.

- Yes, it was an abject failure, hence the complete redirection of the transfer policy and entirely new recruitment/scouting personnel brought in. You don't overhaul an entire system just because it was "meh," even if you're Daniel Levy.

- Capoue and Chiriches will most certainly be sold at losses. If we receive a 20+m bid for Lamela this summer, I would be very surprised to see the board/Poch not consider it very closely. I know that would break your heart, but that's the reality of business. I don't think they'll 100% agree to it, but you better believe they'll be well-tempted. I agree though that Eriksen and Chadli will be here next season.

- Why are we talking about Oil City's past? The point was that they do spend extravagantly, and they were the singly only club in the entire league to spend more than us that summer, and we still went backwards. If you run a business in which you invest 100 million GBP and you go backwards, and yet furthermore deem that acceptable, I don't suspect that would be a business for long at all. Levy knows that, hence why he's scrapped the blueprints that caused that investment loss in the first place.

- Yeah, we've had a good season, after we pushed out nearly all of those signings and replaced them with our own youth or considerably cheaper signings from this past summer. Capoue isn't playing, Soldado isn't playing, Chiriches isn't playing, Paulinho isn't playing... that's over 60 million pounds hanging on our pinewood (or not even making the bloody squad), and playing the very odd game for only a couple of them. Our record signing cost nearly 30 million pounds and he's scored two goals in the league this season. Even the ones who are producing, Chadli and Eriksen, have each been undoubtedly very inconsistent this season. Yes, we have done alright this term, but it is absolutely not due to the summer of 2013. If anything, we're still recovering from it and have fared well despite it.

spursfan77 said:
Trix posted this about baldini back in March on coys, it's what I've always thought his role at the club is.

"
It's worth remembering Baldini isn't and never has been a DOF, responsible for identifying the playing staff, although I am sure he did have an influence in both Lamela and Vlad as it was well known at the time they were both on the Roma radar aswell. Every player we bought in that summer though came with big reputations, as all of them had been very successful at their previous clubs. The issue is/was that some of them just don't seem to have adapted to the Prem. This is exactly the reason Mitchell(who Baldini pushed for) was brought in. His role is to do all the analytical ground work to ensure those we buy have a greater chance of succeeding for us. He will of course still be part of the transfer process, but we now have a team in place to work together to find our targets. Never gets mentioned but he has played a key role in trying to turn the club around, and his role in trying to change the entire philosophy of the club from the ground up is significant.

Our amazing lack of injuries for instance is not just down to MP's training regime. Since Baldini's arrival there has been an overhaul of dietary and medical procedures. Our youth sides all follow the same regimes, rules and regulations as the seniors and the amount of tournament football they are playing is also in large down to Baldini. You mention Lamela and Vlad, but stealing Dier on the cheap was also him and his extensive list of contacts.

I think the main issue with Baldini is people don't understand his role at the club( I don't really know all he does). They automatically see him as a DOF and assume he does the buying and selling ala Comolli but his role at the club is technical director and is actually very very different."

@DaSpurs you might want to read this post

DaSpurs · Apr 27, 2015

jezz said:
@DaSpurs you might want to read this post

... which suggests he has other functions and was involved in bringing someone else in to assess whether buys are actually good ideas (practically conceding he made mistakes), thus reducing the effect of his ultimate say. Sure, it doesn't mean he's gone if he has these other roles, but the fact of the matter is regardless from anyone's take, he won't have the same extent of say in transfer decisions as he had in his first summer at the club and the club has entirely shifted its transfer policy as a result of a poor summer.

jezz · Apr 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
... which suggests he has other functions and was involved in bringing someone else in to assess whether buys are actually good ideas (practically conceding he made mistakes), thus reducing the effect of his ultimate say. Sure, it doesn't mean he's gone if he has these other roles, but the fact of the matter is regardless from anyone's take, he won't have the same extent of say in transfer decisions as he had in his first summer at the club and the club has entirely shifted its transfer policy as a result of a poor summer.

Really I thought the post said he had very little input into transfer targets.

Lilbaz · Apr 27, 2015

Trix might be spot on. But remember his information doesn't come directly from Spurs.

DaSpurs · Apr 27, 2015

jezz said:
Really I thought the post said he had very little input into transfer targets.

Convincing Levy to part with 30m pounds for a young player in Serie A and 10m pounds for a center back playing in Romania is hardly "very little input into transfer targets."

jezz · Apr 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
Convincing Levy to part with 30m pounds for a young player in Serie A and 10m pounds for a center back playing in Romania is hardly "very little input into transfer targets."

You mean a young lad who scored 15 from the wing?
And that young lad has scored 6 and 9 assists in his first playing season after a serious injury.
If he gets a couple more before the seasons out them stats will be pretty good.
If he is Baldini's signing then I imagine he will staying along with Baldini.
Something you thought and posted won't be happening.
Chiriches who isn't as bad as some are making out will be sold but I doubt at a loss.
This time mate you could be wrong.
I still like your debating skills though

DaSpurs · Apr 27, 2015

jezz said:
You mean a young lad who scored 15 from the wing?
And that young lad has scored 6 and 9 assists in his first playing season after a serious injury.
If he gets a couple more before the seasons out them stats will be pretty good.
If he is Baldini's signing then I imagine he will staying along with Baldini.
Something you thought and posted won't be happening.
Chiriches who isn't as bad as some are making out will be sold but I doubt at a loss.
This time mate you could be wrong.
I still like your debating skills though

Haha just a sweetheart at the core aren't ye.

If he doesn't go, that's due to being involved in other factors we had zero previous indication of him being involved with until that post. For instance, if he does such beneficial things like that, don't you think it strange that if he does things that the board told the THST not one of those things in the multiple meetings in which they specifically asked what his role was? Why wouldn't they say something simple like he's made changes in the nutritional system for the players better, if for no other reason to appease the THST? Why were they so coy about it? Really forces you to wonder what's actually going on.

The fact of the matter is, his say in transfers has been reduced, and if that post is correct and he was involved in bringing Mitchell, then that's all the more incriminating since that's him acknowledging his own mistakes. That is all I care about, that he has less day and that people with more experience with what works for the Prem take over. That has and is happening, so I don't actually think I'm off the mark with the significant matter at hand here. Just because the Queen is still technically a component of government for instance doesn't mean she actually holds what genuinely matters: power.

And yes, Lamela had a great season in Serie A. But as you'll note, no one in the Prem is scrambling for youth prodigies in Serie A anymore, and especially not at stupid amounts of money. Sure enough, to date, Lamela has proven why that is not prudent. You'll also note the lack of links of Prem clubs with Dybala, as they're probably very hesitant for the fee compared to the risk. Even so, I'm of and was of the opinion at the time that the fee was absurd even given the promise shown. To date, I think that hesitation was merited. I absolutely do not want to see him fail and have always rooted for him when he's been on the pitch, so it's nothing personal. He was just a poor acquisition at the time made by a poor decision by a man with a poor idea of what is required to succeed in the Prem, and consequently the Spurs board has reallocated their entire transfer policy and scouting/analysis personnel.

jezz · Apr 27, 2015

DaSpurs said:
Haha just a sweetheart at the core aren't ye.

If he doesn't go, that's due to being involved in other factors we had zero previous indication of him being involved with until that post. For instance, if he does such beneficial things like that, don't you think it strange that if he does things that the board told the THST not one of those things in the multiple meetings in which they specifically asked what his role was? Why wouldn't they say something simple like he's made changes in the nutritional system for the players better, if for no other reason to appease the THST? Why were they so coy about it? Really forces you to wonder what's actually going on.

The fact of the matter is, his say in transfers has been reduced, and if that post is correct and he was involved in bringing Mitchell, then that's all the more incriminating since that's him acknowledging his own mistakes. That is all I care about, that he has less day and that people with more experience with what works for the Prem take over. That has and is happening, so I don't actually think I'm off the mark with the significant matter at hand here. Just because the Queen is still technically a component of government for instance doesn't mean she actually holds what genuinely matters: power.

And yes, Lamela had a great season in Serie A. But as you'll note, no one in the Prem is scrambling for youth prodigies in Serie A anymore, and especially not at stupid amounts of money. Sure enough, to date, Lamela has proven why that is not prudent. You'll also note the lack of links of Prem clubs with Dybala, as they're probably very hesitant for the fee compared to the risk. Even so, I'm of and was of the opinion at the time that the fee was absurd even given the promise shown. To date, I think that hesitation was merited. I absolutely do not want to see him fail and have always rooted for him when he's been on the pitch, so it's nothing personal. He was just a poor acquisition at the time made by a poor decision by a man with a poor idea of what is required to succeed in the Prem, and consequently the Spurs board has reallocated their entire transfer policy and scouting/analysis personnel.

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