The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 16th July 2015

allatsea · Jul 16, 2015

We'llWinThePrem said:
Looks like Liverpool have paid the £32m clause for Benteke.
today

Says who ?

brasil_spur · Jul 16, 2015

danielneeds said:
How many superstar DMs of world football can we realistically attract though?

We either have to go for an up and coming prospect of a solid experienced PL player? Given that we have a squad littered with prospects, maybe the solid pro is the way to go?

Like i said before, McCarthy is a decent player and could end up being very good for us. BUT £20m is a hell of a lot of money to spend on him. Seems from the ITK that our transfer team also agree on this.

brasil_spur · Jul 16, 2015

spursfan77 said:
Edmonton has said that's not the case on coys. In fairness I thought the money would go towards the stadium.

I didn't see that posted. However that seems like the most un-Levy thing i've ever heard. I don't think we even need more transfer money as such, i assume there is a big enough pot if we need it anyway.

Mr Pink · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
Yes and Parker had far more PL experience than McCarthy and cost £5m.

The point is just because a player plays for a team which struggles doesn't mean they're poor, which is what you implied.

thinktank · Jul 16, 2015

Spurger King said:
So weird how he went from being a rock in our back four, to apparently universally hated club captain.

The goals against Villa and Arsenal will live long in the memory.

He's a victim of his own arrogance.

brasil_spur · Jul 16, 2015

danielneeds said:
Prices have been ridiculously inflated by the TV deal - Sterling for 49m etc. That's just a reality. We've obviously been scouting McCarthy for a long time, so if we pay it, we'll have done due diligence. I don't think we'll pay it though, myself.

You say that, but then look who we've signed so far and for the prices we've paid. TV money has added some value on, but £49m for Sterling has as much to do with City's deep pockets and desperate need for a home grown attacking player now Milner has left as anything.

felmani26 · Jul 16, 2015

Drexl said:
Parker was like 30 when he came to us

McCarthy is 24

Basically this.

It's not hard to see why McCarthy is valued more at this stage in his career than Parker was when we bought him.

McCarthy fulfils the remit perfectly in what we want in a central midfielder and in how his inclusion will make other around him blossom - particularly Bentaleb.

Curtis Peterson · Jul 16, 2015

allatsea said:
Says who ?

Tony Barrett

danielneeds · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
Like i said before, McCarthy is a decent player and could end up being very good for us. BUT £20m is a hell of a lot of money to spend on him. Seems from the ITK that our transfer team also agree on this.

I agree it's a lot of money, but in the end, I'd it means our midfield is less horribly unbalanced like last season, then I don't mind. Club has to weigh it all up.

Xeeleeyid · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
But Scott Parker had played nearly 10 seasons in the PL for clubs and didn't cost us anywhere close to £20m.

If McCarthy was costing us £5-10m then i think he would be a decent signing, but he simply isn't a £20m player, IMO.

Surely, whatever the merits of the fee versus the player's ability in anyone's head, if McCarthy is a player that Pochettino wants and feels he could do with in order to implement his style to a better level, and a deal can be done that the club are happy with financially (regardless of the fee), then surely it's a deal worth doing, even if that costs us £20m?

When you consider a fee, it's not just about whether you feel that player is worth £20m on pure ability. Sometimes, you're looking for a particular piece of your team's jigsaw, and there may not be many players around that tick those boxes. That inevitably leads to inflated fees.

I've seen a lot of people point to the fact that other clubs have signed the likes of Payet and Clasie for fees of £10m and below. So what? We signed Eriksen for £11m. What's your point. It just shows that there is quite a lot of available midfield play-makers of that kind of type. the supply/demand situation and how vital the selling clubs are viewing these players for their overall team dynamic means that these players are clearly cheaper.

The all-round midfield general type player, the type that can sit, defend, press, move, tackle and play early, direct and accurate passes, plus get forward the odd occasion and have a shot. These players are thin on the ground. Or the clubs they are at clearly view them as more vital to their team dynamic, hence the large price tags.

If our list is Plan A = Schneiderlin, but we're being blown out the water by CL clubs so he's not interested, then Plan B = McCarthy and we feel that we can get him. Why not pay a premium in order to secure someone who fits the manager's bill?

brasil_spur · Jul 16, 2015

Mr Pink said:
The point is just because a player plays for a team which struggles doesn't mean they're poor, which is what you implied.

No, i implied that PL experience is fine but has to be looked at in context of what that player has achieved. I don't think McCarthy has achieved much in his PL career - that's not a terrible thing as he's young still. But i also think that doesn't make him a £20m player.

We'llWinThePrem · Jul 16, 2015

People are really showing their football ignorance regarding McCarthy...

allatsea · Jul 16, 2015

Curtis Peterson said:
Tony Barrett

Who is he ?

rawhide · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
Yes and Parker had far more PL experience than McCarthy and cost £5m.

But that was due to age - if he was McCarthy's age we wouldn't have got him for £5m, he'd be more around what McCarthy would cost...

brasil_spur · Jul 16, 2015

Xeeleeyid said:
Surely, whatever the merits of the fee versus the player's ability in anyone's head, if McCarthy is a player that Pochettino wants and feels he could do with in order to implement his style to a better level, and a deal can be done that the club are happy with financially (regardless of the fee), then surely it's a deal worth doing, even if that costs us £20m?

When you consider a fee, it's not just about whether you feel that player is worth £20m on pure ability. Sometimes, you're looking for a particular piece of your team's jigsaw, and there may not be many players around that tick those boxes. That inevitably leads to inflated fees.

I've seen a lot of people point to the fact that other clubs have signed the likes of Payet and Clasie for fees of £10m and below. So what? We signed Eriksen for £11m. What's your point. It just shows that there is quite a lot of available midfield play-makers of that kind of type. the supply/demand situation and how vital the selling clubs are viewing these players for their overall team dynamic means that these players are clearly cheaper.

The all-round midfield general type player, the type that can sit, defend, press, move, tackle and play early, direct and accurate passes, plus get forward the odd occasion and have a shot. These players are thin on the ground. Or the clubs they are at clearly view them as more vital to their team dynamic, hence the large price tags.

If our list is Plan A = Schneiderlin, but we're being blown out the water by CL clubs so he's not interested, then Plan B = McCarthy and we feel that we can get him. Why not pay a premium in order to secure someone who fits the manager's bill?

If that's the case then fair enough. But if it was the case then i feel we would have pulled the trigger on this already, or be very close to doing so right now.

I don't think the club rate him as the best DM player we could sign right now, and that is the bit that concerns me when looking to pay £20m for him.

Drexl · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
Agreed, that is probably the only plus point McCarthy has over Parker when we signed him - his age. However Parker had more experience and had come off the back of being voted one for the top players for the season.

Anywho all this Parker conversation is largely irrelevant, i still don't think McCarthy is good enough for us to make him our 3rd biggest transfer fee.

TImes have changed too

With Sky money you even have to pay 10m+ for the likes of Shane Long and Steven Fletcher

£20m is about the right price in today's market for a young experienced and established international

Part of the dislike of him coming is he does not have a glamour name, if his name was Jaminho and he was Brazillian people would have their boxers round their ankles with excitement

felmani26 · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
No, i implied that PL experience is fine but has to be looked at in context of what that player has achieved. I don't think McCarthy has achieved much in his PL career - that's not a terrible thing as he's young still. But i also think that doesn't make him a £20m player.

McCarthy has achieved as much in the Premier League as Schneiderlin - would you have advocated paying £20million plus for him?

mikeeegreen · Jul 16, 2015

I'd love for us to sign McCarthy I think he'd add great balance to our midfield primarily next to Bentaleb. Sadly I still fail to see how we would match Everton's valuation and IMO I think he will end up at City.

Mr Pink · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
No, i implied that PL experience is fine but has to be looked at in context of what that player has achieved. I don't think McCarthy has achieved much in his PL career - that's not a terrible thing as he's young still. But i also think that doesn't make him a £20m player.

Well if we can do the deal, I'll leave that up to Levy. I want the manager to get the players in he needs, and this is an important position that needs addressing this summer - and he's well proven.

If he ends up being too much then fair enough and I accept that, but all this worrying over the exact amount I never get.

danielneeds · Jul 16, 2015

brasil_spur said:
You say that, but then look who we've signed so far and for the prices we've paid. TV money has added some value on, but £49m for Sterling has as much to do with City's deep pockets and desperate need for a home grown attacking player now Milner has left as anything.

I'm talking about players from other PL clubs, home grown, with PL experience. Generally we are very prudent and clever which is a good thing. The one criticism I'll have of Levy is he'll generally back his manger like this, but when it comes to the last piece of the jigsaw that a manger needs to bring some balance to the side, Levy won't pay that little bit over the odds to get it for him.

Then he'll sack the manager when the team struggles...

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