Clinton N'Jie SIGNED

gavspur · Aug 9, 2015

Wow, some touchy people on here tonight, didn't think my post would cause upset.

Shep · Aug 9, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3521 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

Terrific post. Backed up recently by Monchi of Sevilla explaining that the French market provides the best value for a plethora of reasons. We shouldn't be put off by Stambouli and Capoue in recent times.

doctor stefan Freud · Aug 9, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3521 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

Thanks for this- some really fascinating points. France have now become my second favourite national side. My only question is that IQ isn't class orientated, rather I'd say that football in France is cross class and cross cultural with it not being the preserve of the working class and the associated cultural values that we tend to find with each class.

Mr Pink · Aug 9, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3521 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

The french generally seem to have much less problem giving younger players game time.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

Newcastle havn't done too badly shopping in France either

whitelightwhiteheat · Aug 9, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3521 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

The french generally seem to have much less problem giving younger players game time.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

Good post. St Etienne playing a 3521 must be at a distinct advantage as well, unless that formation means they're playing rush goalie... or no goalie at all.

Agree with the rest though. European footballers on the whole seem to be smarter, with the exception of the best European footballer - Cristiano Ronaldo, who I think I read comes from a poor background, with a bit of gypsy going on too...

FrankSpencer · Aug 9, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3521 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

The french generally seem to have much less problem giving younger players game time.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

Articulate. Very nice post indeed.

Gbspurs · Aug 9, 2015

gavspur said:
It was only tongue in cheek, jees, chill out. No harm meant.

Does now look like the time for comedy Gavin? DOES IT?!?! We're at defcon 4 now in terms of transfer window meltdown. If we get a solid media link to Victor Moses, game over man!!

Bus-Conductor · Aug 9, 2015

whitelightwhiteheat said:
Good post. St Etienne playing a 3521 must be at a distinct advantage as well, unless that formation means they're playing rush goalie... or no goalie at all.

Agree with the rest though. European footballers on the whole seem to be smarter, with the exception of the best European footballer - Cristiano Ronaldo, who I think I read comes from a poor background, with a bit of gypsy going on too...

My bad, they played 3421 (which I confess I thought was 352 when I was watching it)

Ossie85 · Aug 10, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
France is the second highest exporter of footballers after Brazil I believe, and that is possibly skewed in Brazil's favour by the amount they export all over their own continent, whereas French footballers are generally being exported to the strongest leagues in Europe (and ergo the world).

Firstly, on a basic level, French footballers benefit from that thing that other european nations do, that Simon Kuper refers to in his book Soccernomics, in that it (football) is not just the preserve of the poorly educated. This is not unique to France, but it means the average IQ level of French (and many other nations) footballers is already an advantage - and this shows at all levels of ability, it makes an ordinary footballer better than an ordinary stupid one, good ones better than good stupid ones etc. French kids will often be taught a language like English/Spanish/German to a decent standard.

Secondly french football is renowned for educating it's footballers well, not just technically but tactically. Generally they have been educating and teaching their kids the brand of football the spurs academy has been doing in the last few years under McDermott. There is no such thing as long ball in France, everything is about passing, pressing and being tactically aware and disciplined. It's an incredibly tactically diverse league. Today I watched Toulouse play a 4321 (christmas tree) against St Etienne playing a 3421 (with our old friend Ekotto as LWB). PSG play 433, Monaco 4231, Lyon 41212 / 4312, etc etc.

They nurture and value talented individuals but also try to make all the footballers they educate useful, able to play to a decent standard tactically. French football is played at a decent tempo, always on the ground and there is always a heavy tactical element. This means they can assimilate well into other leagues.

The french generally seem to have much less problem giving younger players game time.

You also have a diverse cultural blend, as well as being bordered and influenced in a footballing sense by the Italians, Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Belgians you have the african and north african influences too.

Lastly, is the economic circumstances, you have the third most abundant football gene pool floating around in a very impoverished league. A top French player playing for Lyon or Marseille will probably earn about 20-30k a week tops. Ayew can earn more playing for Swansea than he can for Marseille.

What you have is perfect social/economic/football shitstorm. Reasonably intelligent, technically and tactically decent footballers who don't earn enough.

This is in no way an attempt of refuting your post, but I feel the need to give my opinion on some of the topics you mentioned.

First of all, and this is more fact that opinion, Brazil doesn't export players "all over their own continent". There might be some in Mexico and the US (and by that I mean maybe 10 between both countries), but other than that they are only in Brazil. Brazil is the biggest economy in SA and where they pay the biggest wages. There hasn't been a brazilian playing in Argentina in the last 15 years, and I think no more than 10 in history. But they do export to eastern europe and asia, so your point still stands.

I think the biggest advantage the french league has, it that it's the first port for african players. Generally speaking it's more the african french players that adapt best to the EPL, than the native french. And to emphasize my point, this now expanding to the belgian league, and they are benefiting from that.

And in the case of your last point, I think it's also fair to say that they want to leave and they don't have the sense of belonging that german, spanish or dutch players may have. Because compared to the wages in the EPL, 80% of the teams of the top5 leagues pay lower wages than for example Swansea.

Schitzophonic · Aug 10, 2015

Quite surprised to see no new quotes from Lyon following their match tonight. They did some interviews for their own OLTV, but nothing new on N'Jie.

spurs9 · Aug 10, 2015

jair1970 said:
I did a bit of stat analysis in the summer and my list of young talent in the top 5 leagues based on what they did last year, in order, was this:
Clinton N'Jie
Felipe Anderson
Nabil Fekir
Raheem Sterling
Hakan Calhanoglu
Harry Kane
Paul Pogba
In itself that "proves" nothing but fuck it, let's get positive.

Replying here, so not to clog the ITK thread off topic. Just out of interest, what stats did you look at when you came to this conclusion?

Gedson100 · Aug 10, 2015

It was an expected goal contribution based on a rate of taking and creating shots with an emphasis on players who played sufficient minutes (ie fit and trusted) and normalised to minimise effects for extremely hot seasons (which are likely to regress)
Nothing too complicated! (Actually isn't nearly as much as it might sound) When I wrote it up I actually omitted N'Jie because I knew nothing about him and the rest of the list is quite clearly a bunch of widely coveted super talented youngsters.
In itself you could just say, well so what, he had a good season, and whilst true, I looked at previous seasons too and it was pretty reliable:
2010 top 5: Ozil, Aguero, Jovetic, Kroos, A Sanchez
2011: Pato, Pastore, Walcott, Reus Gotze
2012: Hazard, Welbeck, Belhanda, Pjanic, Isco (Lamela 6th)
2013: Ljacic, Lukaku, Draxler, Insigne, El Sharaawy (Lamela 8th)
2014: Neymar, Calhanoglu, Lukaku, Son, Eriksen
Pretty solid hit rate there, enough certainly to take a punt on a player who projects well according to similar measures.

I'm on the fence as to whether our statistical scouting is good or simplistic. When we get linked to players I can understand easily through the numbers, it makes me think that maybe our system is a bit simple! Trippier is a great example of this. On numbers he stood out a mile, but does that make him a good defending right back? That's a completely different story, so you wonder.

@Bobby__Lucky · Aug 10, 2015

jair1970 said:
It was an expected goal contribution based on a rate of taking and creating shots with an emphasis on players who played sufficient minutes (ie fit and trusted) and normalised to minimise effects for extremely hot seasons (which are likely to regress)
Nothing too complicated! (Actually isn't nearly as much as it might sound) When I wrote it up I actually omitted N'Jie because I knew nothing about him and the rest of the list is quite clearly a bunch of widely coveted super talented youngsters.
In itself you could just say, well so what, he had a good season, and whilst true, I looked at previous seasons too and it was pretty reliable:
2010 top 5: Ozil, Aguero, Jovetic, Kroos, A Sanchez
2011: Pato, Pastore, Walcott, Reus Gotze
2012: Hazard, Welbeck, Belhanda, Pjanic, Isco (Lamela 6th)
2013: Ljacic, Lukaku, Draxler, Insigne, El Sharaawy (Lamela 8th)
2014: Neymar, Calhanoglu, Lukaku, Son, Eriksen
Pretty solid hit rate there, enough certainly to take a punt on a player who projects well according to similar measures.

I'm on the fence as to whether our statistical scouting is good or simplistic. When we get linked to players I can understand easily through the numbers, it makes me think that maybe our system is a bit simple! Trippier is a great example of this. On numbers he stood out a mile, but does that make him a good defending right back? That's a completely different story, so you wonder.

I think you need to work for our scouting dept! Have you ever approached the club with your findings ? .....seems like you should.

Gedson100 · Aug 10, 2015

Haha, nah, you'd hope the "black box" is more detailed and comprehensive than what I could do.

spurs9 · Aug 10, 2015

jair1970 said:
It was an expected goal contribution based on a rate of taking and creating shots with an emphasis on players who played sufficient minutes (ie fit and trusted) and normalised to minimise effects for extremely hot seasons (which are likely to regress)
Nothing too complicated! (Actually isn't nearly as much as it might sound) When I wrote it up I actually omitted N'Jie because I knew nothing about him and the rest of the list is quite clearly a bunch of widely coveted super talented youngsters.
In itself you could just say, well so what, he had a good season, and whilst true, I looked at previous seasons too and it was pretty reliable:
2010 top 5: Ozil, Aguero, Jovetic, Kroos, A Sanchez
2011: Pato, Pastore, Walcott, Reus Gotze
2012: Hazard, Welbeck, Belhanda, Pjanic, Isco (Lamela 6th)
2013: Ljacic, Lukaku, Draxler, Insigne, El Sharaawy (Lamela 8th)
2014: Neymar, Calhanoglu, Lukaku, Son, Eriksen
Pretty solid hit rate there, enough certainly to take a punt on a player who projects well according to similar measures.

I'm on the fence as to whether our statistical scouting is good or simplistic. When we get linked to players I can understand easily through the numbers, it makes me think that maybe our system is a bit simple! Trippier is a great example of this. On numbers he stood out a mile, but does that make him a good defending right back? That's a completely different story, so you wonder.

Nice Work. I checked out his stats too and he impresses with his goals and assists per min ratio and he chance creation is decent too. I even compared his stats to Lacazette's in the 2012/13 season (when he would have been the same age N'jie was last season) and N'jie is better in every attacking stat bar 2 (# of successful passes & successful take on %).

The 1 stats that does worry me is his successful take on % with him only just completing 1/3rd (35%) which is less than Lamela, a player criticised for giving the ball way too cheaply (54%). Saying that Lazazette's was only 42% at the same age, but this season went up to 58%.

He would be an interesting signing but like you, I'm not completely sold on him.

Dharmabum · Aug 10, 2015

If Spurs do sign him I am happy to have him at Spurs... but I my main concern is the ANC and other commitments to the National team of Cameroon.

Danners9 · Aug 10, 2015

Dharmabum said:
If Spurs do sign him I am happy to have him at Spurs... but I my main concern is the ANC and other commitments to the National team of Cameroon.

Next AFCON is 2017. There are ways of managing international commitments. As long as he's not going missing and coming back late, it's not going to be a problem.

allatsea · Aug 10, 2015

y1dk1d said:
Personally think it's hilarious how everyone's saying he's not in the squad because he's injured. Yeah, that may be what's been said, but it's pretty convenient timing, isn't it? I mean is there actually any solid evidence? It happens a lot of the time where a player suddenly gets a mysterious injury and has to miss a match when they're ready for a move. I'm not saying he isn't injured but it's quite laughable how everyone is taking it as a solid fact

Just like Rose

Ledleys Knee · Aug 10, 2015

Lacazette's injury last night might throw a spanner in this

arunspurs · Aug 10, 2015

Ledleys Knee said:
Lacazette's injury last night might throw a spanner in this

Heard its not a bad one. Just precaution I guess
Regardless, don't think Njie transfer will be based on Lacazette's injury situation
Infact that may preempt Lyon into selling asap to get the money & spend now

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