The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 1st September 2015 DEADLINE DAY!

Bus-Conductor · Sep 1, 2015

danielneeds said:
You talk a lot of sense in your post, but the bit above is rubbish. No other well managed club is as reliant on their centre forward as we now are on Kane.

Arsenal have Wellbeck to understudy Giroud, and while he is not the most prolific scorer, he's shown he is up the the demands of leading the line in this league.

Chelsea had Drogba last year to add a target man back up, and this year have Falcao. Citeh have Bony to come in for Augero. And Liverpool have, well, I've lost count really...

United are currently as vulnerable as we are if Rooney is out. Martial has a lot of adapting to do learn the CF position and adjust to life in this league.

I haven't seen a lot N'Jie, but both he and Son face struggles to prove themselves in a tough new environment - we should be making sure they can do that in their favoured position, giving them the best chance of succeeding, not asking to have to play with their back to goal if Kane is unavailable.

Then there is the mental element of what having some genuine competition would have done for Kane. Kept him sharp and focused, as well as rested when needs be. Instead we are looking to new players adapting or the mercurial but frustrating Chadli to be the fulcrum of our attack should the worst happen.

Welbeck has played about 12 minutes of football as an actual lone striker in the last two years (yes exaggeration, but not much) he's been mostly used as a wide striker by both Arsenal and ManU. Drogba also was third choice and barely used behind Remy (another player who spent nearly all of his time at Marseille as a wide striker . Arsenal are also the only team in Europe's top five leagues who didn't buy an outfield player this summer. Why could that be ? Because even a club with resources and wage budget vastly superior to ours are struggling to buy players to improve them. As have Chelsea, one of the riches clubs in the world.

Chadli, Njie and Son scored more goals per minute in open play than Berahino did last year. There is no perfect solution to our situation. No top class uber striker with all round lone striker game is going to be a) very affordable or b) want to come and be understudy to Kane.

I kept saying this early on, and believe me I was never Gignac's biggest fan, but him on a free would have made much more sense while looking for a longer term solution. He's not the quickest but he grafts and has a good brain and the attributes to play our system (which he did last year under Bielsa) Or Embolo, even at 20m-25m would have because his ceiling is massive and he can also play wide auxiliary/forward and has much more to his all round game than Berahino.

As I said, there were options I would have liked us to pursue, but the fact that they weren't I think is more down to scouts/Mitchell/Pochettino (perhaps) than Levy who is clearly delegating the philosophy and recruitment targeting to others.

And Berahino was a poor fit, especially at the ludicrous price. he's not a great wide player, he created fuck all for anyone the whole of last season. His game is, not entirely limited to, but more effective on the break/counter when he can isolate defenders, about 70% of our games are played against the deep sitting teams. And both N'Jie and Son will bring the pace needed but both create more for others.

sloth · Sep 1, 2015

Bus-Conductor said:
Are you capable of grasping the concept of a development academy ? The same people saying give Veljkovic a chance instead of buying a fucking massively overpriced decent but ordinary alternative are possibly the same who have seen the results of giving Kane a chance, or Bentaleb or Mason - you know those players that went toe to toe with the likes of McCarthy & Wanyama and came out best.

You realise that two of the biggest purchases made this summer were players under 21. Sterling (50m) and Martial (36m). How the fuck do you think that happened ? think about it….I'll save us both a a couple of hours, they got played by their clubs as teenagers. As did a couple of the players we have bought. Could their be something in this philosophy ? Especially if you have hired a manager based on his supposed coaching ability, not his ability to wheel and deal in football's middle market.

Days like this you need to appreciate it was the fuckwit Newcsatle fans inability to grasp reality that got them in the ginormous clusterfuck they were in. If you remember it started with them demonstrating against Pardew. Now I don't think Pardew is a fucking genius but he was doing an OK job for a club that now has to be run as a sustainable business, they were making shrewd purchases, he was getting performances out of them and they were making big profits and trying to repeat the process, the model for any sustainable club, including the likes of Porto, Ajax, most of Germany and France. Unfortunately he was so convinced of the ****y nature of the idiots that support that club who singularly failed to grasp that it is no longer 1995 and their owner was already a couple of hundred million in debt to the club, that he jumped ship for a relegation team with about a fifth of the budget just to get away from the fucktards. Who then got what they wanted, one of their own, with a similar IQ, and nearly took them down, which would have been exactly what they deserve.

How about the guys on the other end need to man the fuck up and realise this is a trading game. Levy never puts a gun to their head, they never have to sell fuck all to him. And if they do feel they've been bullied they don't have to like it but how about they don't have to blubb to the media about it. Because chances are they are just as likely to need Levy's business in the future as he is theirs. And I said exactly the same when Levy grumbled about ManU tapping up Berbatov.

Everyone is saying Levy tried to bully Peace but Peace was also trying to bully Levy into paying over the odds. His player is going to have one year left on his contract this time next year, unless he becomes Aguero this season his (over) value is going to drop considerably. If Peace ends up taking 12m for him who's the idiot ?

We play a one striker system. As do ManU. They sold (or gave back) three CF's this summer and have bought a teenage wide forward. Arsenal have the same, one true striker, two/three wide forwards. We already have a couple of wide forwards and We've bought two, one who's experienced in one of Europe's strongest leagues. This is the logical way to operate, especially as we don't even have those two clubs budget. One main striker, three or four versatile forwards who can contribute to the team in other areas and back up the striker. Like Chelsea did with Costa and Remy (who spent a lot of his time in France as a wide forward in 4231/433)

It would have been idiotic to pay 25m for a player to sit on our bench when we have easily enough options to at least cover us until January.

And with regards to your post yesterday about the middle teams all strengthening, I agree they have, but it was a disingenuous thing to say as you know it is much easier for them to strengthen than it is for the likes of us and Liverpool. We are operating in much more marginal markets, players that strengthen clubs like us are those close enough to be top class to improve us but not quite there enough for those bigger fish to snap them up, and fuck knows, everything that kicks a ball straight aged 18 is now getting snapped up.

I can't think of too many of these ready fit, top class, guarantee to improve our first team players that either didn't get snapped up by bigger fish, were priced out of our range or were not for sale. I would liked players like Kramer or Embolo but even they were young potential, not sure fire off the peg, fully formed top class.

To All the B(itching)W(hiners)ofD(aniel)L(evy)

Do I blame Levy for not getting bullied into massively over paying for Defoe mark 2, hell fucking no, in fact I'll put my money where my mouth is and chuck in the £25 promised if he didn't. I'll also add £5 for offloading the insipid gangsta ant and generally LEARNING LESSONS FROM PREVIOUS WINDOWS like not wasting money on decent but limited, ordinary, ho fucking hum footballers who we have paid millions to sit in the stands most of the last two years.

We hired a coach with a philosophy that includes energy & tempo, we have an academy that has been teaching that from 15yo up. No more fucking Dempsey's, Chiriches's, Stambouli's, Davies's.

We may go through some more transition, but if we struggle and finish lower than eighth but get these kids moving in a year or two we'll have our own Sterling's and Martial's. If we finish lower than eighth and Levy sticks by Pochettino and preservers with and supports the philosophy, I'll chip another £50 in to SC, by way of putting my money where my mouth is.

Levy fucks up. Not supporting AVB through a difficult time.The Berbatov summer. And the BWofDL no doubt have databases bigger than dating Agency's for married men of his misdemeanours, but this blubbing about every transfer window is pathetic. "I would actually have settled for Austin". Fuck me. How about thinking further than next fucking saturday's result ?

We've finished 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th. Anyone would think Levy had taken over the Champions and got them relegated, instead we are the most consistent and highest achieving self sustaining club in this league over the last few years. We don't do that by vastly over paying for mediocrity too often.

I am and remain a BSODL. That's because, over all, I think he's done a fantastic job for us. Even if it goes tits up this year I back us to bounce back under Levy. None of that stops me from criticising him for this window. I stand by my opinion that he's just taken a huge gamble, and that the gamble was taken because he was too weak to back down. It's done now though, so let's see how it pans out. If we finish top six, and we bring some young players that may not have had a chance otherwise, then he is vindicated by the results. But I will nevertheless maintain that he got lucky. But then a famous leader once said that the quality he looked for most in his generals was that they were lucky. Here's hoping.

EnfieldYiddo · Sep 1, 2015

scat1620 said:
Totally agree with the THST here. Ticket prices really get my goat (pun intended) relative to how competitive we're prepared to be in terms of playing staff costs (wages and transfer fees). We pay Dom Perignon ticket prices for Jacob's Creek footballing ambitions. I would mind less if I thought that ticket prices would be cheaper in the new stadium to allow fans some of the benefit of an increase in ground capacity, but football (and THFC) being what it is then I'd bet dollars to donuts that they won't be.

I expect if it ever does it get taken up in the next meeting, it'll either get dodged or we will receive a statement full of useless rhetoric and vague chairman jargon that boils down to the square root of fuck all in actual meaning.

haydsmith · Sep 1, 2015

I think something that's slipped a little under the radar is we've had a diabolical start to the season. It won't take many more poor results before there's genuine reason to worry. Lots of lucky wins last year which could easily have gone another way.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 1, 2015

yanno said:
Great post in its entirety.

The section above reminds me.... Dimitar Berbatov is a free agent and can be signed outside the transfer window. Apparently he's in Brum discussing a contract with Sherwood.

Let's dump Adebayor's contact and sign up Berba for a season. He'd be the best striker we've been linked with all summer....

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...atov-Tottenham-Manchester-United-Deadline-Day

Can just imagine how much he'd enjoy Pochettino's pressing philosophy, I have a feeling it would be him and Adebayor playing FIFA 2015 in the Spurs Lodge games room most weeks.

dagraham · Sep 1, 2015

First things first, big thanks to A & C, Rob and the rest of the admin for presiding over this madhouse.

Thanks too to all the ITK's for going out of their way to share what they can.

No thanks to Levy for what is, even by our standards, a complete clusterfuck of a situation. I shouldn't be surprised though as ENIC are good at making money, but what they know about football could probably be written on the back of a matchbox.

Any other positives regarding our signings are just made redundant by leaving us with one striker. Its like buying a new house and telling everyone how amazing it is..... Massive bedrooms, 2 lounges, a huge garden, pool out the back, double garage etc.....oh yeah, only problem is there's no roof.

For those that think we're ok, I really don't think you've thought it through. Chadli, N'Jie and Son are not CF's. They may be able to play there in the same way that Dembele can play as a WF or Walker could play on the wing, but it's square pegs in round holes time again.

Besides, even if I and others are completely wrong and the new signings can play up top on their own, they were signed as WF's and as a result will play there in most PL games. Meaning if they have to go upfront in the cup games they'll be knackered too! Those looking forward to seeing a front three of Son, Kane and N'Jie won't see it very often as we'll have to keep them back for the EL. And that's before even considering any injuries.

Whatever way you spin it, it's ridiculous.

Things is, it has nothing to do with the stadium or being unable to compete financially. It's just rank bad management.

I'm not fussed if we didn't want to pay up for Berahinho, but to have no back up plan is negligent. Part of negotiating is knowing when to walk away from a deal and I refuse to believe there isn't another CF in world football available that couldn't suffice, even if it was a loan signing. We insist on playing bloody transfer chicken though and these days we usually lose.

And that's ignoring that we've also had all summer to sign a CM. Once again relying on a handful of very inexperienced players in what it probably the most important part of the pitch, when a player like Cabaye was available with little competition for his signature.

I think those on the ST waiting list will be pleased because as of next season there will be a spare place. I'm fed up of being mugged off and just cannot justify giving the current regime any more of my money.

Impspur1 · Sep 1, 2015

Supersi32 said:
It's where she says we bought Sonny when it became clear WBA were unlikely to sell, we made 2 bids for Berahino today, you think they were top heavy???

Yeah fair point

Gb160 · Sep 1, 2015

itkMan said:
For the Stoke game? You sure?

My bad, thought you said 2nd home game.

cwhite02 · Sep 1, 2015

ohwhenthespurs said:
Yep there it is. What a waste of time today was, and how every itk poster has been sold a red herring. Wouldn't trust the powers that be at Spurs as far as I could throw them.

Including Poch as he's been saying in the media we are after another striker but wouldn't say names. It's clear the club wanted someone but has failed. Shame, as much as some try to cover it up, we are very light up top.

Krafty · Sep 1, 2015

Overall, I think we've done alright this window. Got rid of a lot of the players Poch did not rate, Adebayor is the only bad egg left at the club, and once we get rid of him our "unwanted" players will be ones we will be fine keeping, but if we sell we won't miss them and it might give a chance to a youth product (thinking Dembele, Chadli to a lesser extent, Lamela perhaps a Mason long term).

In terms of incoming, Toby improves the first XI, I think Alli will by October, and Trippier provides good right back backup. Not sure on the Wimmer signing.

I hope Son will go a long way to ending our lack of goals from a second top goal scorer, N'Jie I'm interested to see play and gauge his potential.

We still need a proper playmaker, but I'm not sure Poch really gives one player that responsibility. Would love Bentaleb or even Carroll or Winks take that mantle, but a lack of a real back up to Lane is very shoddy. If Berahino is your top target and you don't get him that's ok, I can wait another season, but even if we did sign him Saido you would like to have a proper third choice option just for injuries/fatigue. Could be a youngster (you either trust Coulthirst or you get rid and get in someone that age you do trust to play a few cup minutes) or it could be an old head who is happy to be on the bench and get a few games here and there.

Don't know why the striker issue wasn't THE priority this summer before the likes of Trippier and Toby, even if it was just to add some depth

Khilari · Sep 1, 2015

EnfieldYiddo said:
I see the cycle has started with the waves of positive posts, the masses clinging to other posters words... Desperate to buy into their reasoning as to why we'll be alright in the end.

Disregarding all of that though, we are one clumsy challenge away from having to play N'jie, Chadli or Son up front for a sizeable period in the premier league.

I think everyone is disappointed in not signing a striker. Berahino was clearly expected to sign, but WBA played a strange game. In fact, David Ornstein reports that people within WBA asked him to budge and he refused. But, despite the disappointment, we still have a season of football to play. We have the chance to KO The Scum from the League Cup and they haven't really strengthened nor started well. Man Utd despite beating us look in disarray and teams in and around us last term (Liverpool for all their £ spunking and Southampton for all their optimism) have not started well and are inconsistent. It's all there to play for.

As part of the 'wave' of negative posts, why are you convinced they can't score? Kane will need to be rested at times and we will I'm sure see the benefits of one of our many summer signings. Hugo staying is a massive plus.

So you just need to see the positivity to appreciate it. Yes, one injury can take Kane out as it can Lloris or Mason all of who are key for us. "Alright' in the end doesn't mean anything. Will we challenge for the title? No. Might we challenge for the Top 4? Yep. Is it a disaster if we don't make it? No. Like some fans seem to suggest on here, the season shouldn't be defined by the TW.

arunspurs · Sep 1, 2015

I understand the tempers are very high in here. I am disappointed too but anyway this is how I view this window

Till last transfer window - we had a scattergun approach - try for 10 different players on final week. If we don't get the primary targets then buy settle for less classy players like Capoue, Stambouli on big contracts & hope they come good. By doing this season after season, we had inflated our wages , paid huge for unused players. Finally this window, I have seen a change of approach. While we were linked with quite a few, there were hardly any real stories out there.

We strengthened our defense early on. We got rid of nearly 10 players who contributed nothing. Late in the window, we have added some real pace buying Son & Njie.

From Pochettino point of view - I can now be certain that very single player in that squad is there because he wants them. This window - I don't think he has been forced into accepting any player he doesn't want. Poch said last week- if he doesnt get the player he wants he wants no one else in that position.

But we made one huge mistake. We should have never sold Soldado without getting a replacement in.

Scott Spur · Sep 1, 2015

TaoistMonkey said:
Maybe they see Dier bossing the shit out of everyone?

And you're basing that on one, maybe two games....the first couple of games that wasn't the case.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Ledley at CDM when he briefly got played there and would love Dier to do the same but one swallow doesn't make a summer and not bringing in a quality CDM that can split a defence as well as 'put it about a bit' was very bad business.

You no doubt know our defensive record last season, one of the worst....this to me is a vital area to strengthen as well as bringing in someone who could help the team going forward.

carpediem991 · Sep 1, 2015

What a disappointing day. There are still two interesting short term solutions on the market with Berbs and Pizarro, but I highly doubt we are interested. Shame.

St José Dominguez · Sep 1, 2015

We'll probably come 5th or 6th, we always seem to find a way bit like Arsenal and the CL.
However I honestly don't think on paper our first team is any better than Swansea's, that's more a compliment to them though. Love Son but he's still unproven in the PL.
I really think that the gap has closed between us and other clubs in the PL, not to the extent of us dropping down the league but it is a lot smaller in my opinion this year.

With the huge tv money and even more coming in, in the years until we move into the stadium this gap has potential to reduce further. I think we've got some good players in the squad but not many great ones. My hope now is on Kane having another big season, Eriksen picking up game with more pace in team, Son and N'Jie working in this league, Mason and Bentaleb improving with experience and Alli, Onomah and Pritchard breaking through and shining.

A lot of that is hope but not expectation. It's really starting to concern me a little what position in the league we'll have finished in the year before we move into new stadium.

EnfieldYiddo · Sep 1, 2015

Weirdly, as much as I was pissed by it... I'm already semi-over it and just want to get onto the next match... Fickle eh?

We can huff and puff about as much as we want but it's not going to magically make a striker appear in our squad, nor is it going to change Levy's actions...

For what it's worth, none of us know if Son or N'jie can adeptly play the lone role in the premier league... Objectively you'd say no but football is a funny thing.

I guess one of them will have to get pretty used to the role anyway given we need a back up striker for the FA cup, capital cup and Europa Leauge... That's a lot of minutes for (I'd fathom) N'jie to hone his skills.

The real worry isn't really Kane getting injured... It's that he continues to look as knackered as he does and in turn continues his pretty underwhelming form... Because we have no other choice but to stick with him.

yankspur · Sep 1, 2015

RamonVega'sShinners said:
So much of this is knee jerk. Appalling window etc. it's not we've signed some real quality and some exciting potential. Why I am so upset is twofold really. Firstly because it was nearly sooooo good two signings away. A quality cm and a backup to Kane, that's all, one could've been a loan.

The fact that the list for a cm has been so extensive and ITK confirmed we were interested in about 8 so it was clearly identified as a key area so how the fuck have we ended up with no one? Unrealistic targets? Don't give me all this deals are complicated bollocks. Yeah they are but West Ham signed 4 players today all who can do a job for them. 4. Yet we can't sign one fucking midfielder from a list of ten?Austin as a sub, cup striker would have done, 18 pl goals last season anyone who wouldn't take him for 12 mil is clueless. Just because he doesn't have a foreign sounding name. So annoyed because nearly so good, great signings and shifted a lot of deadwood. So frustrating.

So, there are 20 CLUELESS Chairmen in the EPL? Not to mention those in other top European Leagues. Since exactly nobody came in for him at that or apparently any other price.

TottenhamJ · Sep 1, 2015

The goat is an utter Virgin

Bus-Conductor · Sep 1, 2015

sloth said:
I am and remain a BSODL. That's because, over all, I think he's done a fantastic job for us. Even if it goes tits up this year I back us to bounce back under Levy. None of that stops me from criticising him for this window. I stand by my opinion that he's just taken a huge gamble, and that the gamble was taken because he was too weak to back down. It's done now though, so let's see how it pans out. If we finish top six, and we bring some young players that may not have had a chance otherwise, then he is vindicated by the results. But I will nevertheless maintain that he got lucky. But then a famous leader once said that the quality he looked for most in his generals was that they were lucky. Here's hoping.

This is nothing like the Berbatov summer though, where we left ourself without a single viable option. Pav had played a years continuous football and needed to adjust to a new league etc, Bent wasn't right for us at all, and then there was Campbell.

We've got decent options that can stand in for Kane who have experience in this team and league, as and when, who have played as forwards, we already have players who score goals at a similar rate to Berahino does.

And the worst case scenario is we only have to last until January until we can pursue another solution.

I think there were better options that we could have pursued but I really don't think our situation is drastic and I don't think Berahino was a medium/long term solution that 25m should be.

arunspurs · Sep 1, 2015

Now we have a meltdown...

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