Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

spurs9 · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
Reason for including Mason (in particular), but also Kane, Dier and Alli is that many are justifying the description of Poch 'being good with youth players' by including these - which I can see some logic in, as when he arrived they were (arguably) not automatically part of the first team squad and he has almost certainly helped to 'polish' the slightly rough diamonds that they may have been.

But I do agree with you that, they are a very different proposition from bringing the kids up from the Spurs youth system which I think should be Poch's test on how committed and good with youth he is (but as I say that's not how others see it).

My comments on Nathan Oduwa would be :

Nathan Oduwa - Poch saw and complimented him on his Spurs u21 performances last season, and included him in the 'behind closed doors' pre-season friendlies where he is reported to have excelled against the Champiionship sides, but unfortunately could not find room for him in the televised pre-season games when the full squad was available. Sent out on loan this season to Rangers

Not sure there's enough to report on Connor Ogilvie, or indeed the likes of Cameron Carter-Vickers and Kyle Walker-Peters who Poch is said to have admired in the youth system last season

If talking in the context of youth/young players, I would agree with the "others" than Poch has done very well. In the context of the article (U18 & U21 players given time) I don't think it is fair to judge, as Poch has been integrating 6 young and/or inexperienced (at least PL wise) players into the 1st team (3 of which were bought and it would be 7 had Pritchard not been injured), whilst last season he was also assessing the squad and IMO, you should't do too much too soon.

spurs9 · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
I quite like that side.

Not a big fan of McEvoy, he's not developed much in the last couple of years and has only made about 10 appearances (including off the bench) on loan, but I agree not too many alternatives in the youth set up - except Shaq Coulthirst who like McEvoy has not developed as much as we had hoped in the last couple of years, but on loan to League 1 and 2 clubs has made almost 50 appearances (admittedly many off the bench for short times) and scored about 10 goals (plus of course made one first team appearance under AVB).

As you know Shaq can play up front or as a right sided striker, and at present is back from his loan.

If you are considering McEvoy, would you consider him as part of the squad, probably on the bench but maybe even to start (resting Clinton or Son ?

I was under the impression that Shaq was injured still, but even so, he hasn't even played an U21 game since August, so I would expect him to be very rusty, so I would rather have McEvoy. I don't think Njie or Son will have the match sharpness to start v Chelsea, so I would rather they go start v Qarabag to get that sharpness back and then be an option from the bench.

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
If talking in the context of youth/young players, I would agree with the "others" than Poch has done very well. In the context of the article (U18 & U21 players given time) I don't think it is fair to judge, as Poch has been integrating 6 young and/or inexperienced (at least PL wise) players into the 1st team (3 of which were bought and it would be 7 had Pritchard not been injured), whilst last season he was also assessing the squad and IMO, you should't do too much too soon.

Last season, most of us gave Poch time to start of get youth into the side as he started with a very bloated squad - although post November when he had jettisoned about 10 players, he was often short of players. IMO he had the opportunity then to bring in some youth players (eg Veljkovic) but maybe felt he couldn't as he had plenty of young players in the side and lacked experience. However at times Mason/Bentaleb at cm looked like they needed a rest - and without bringing back a couple of those he had jettisoned there were no alternatives, so maybe he should have called in one or two young players to add depth. As another example he did have Ball on the bench in a couple of EL matches but never played him - and Ball could have played RB (where Dier was over played), CB (we were also short) or CM (again we wre very short)

This season, agreed Poch has been integrating a few players, but I think that's often the case with most managers, so its not necessarily a reason not to play some of the Spurs youth in some games so far. However, looking to the rest of the season, he's integrated most of the players (although Wimmer hasn't been given much game time), so I'd hope that from now on he does do as he said in the article posted earlier, and start to give several of the youngsters some meaningful minutes - the total to Onomah and Winks really is not enough so far.

So for me the jury is out as to whether Poch is doing enough for Spurs youth - and I think he really does need to do more to justify the investment in time and money over the last decade, where its been shown that we can get good quality players from it where the managers have played youth players (you'll not need reminding but Caulker, Livermore, Rose, Townsend, Kane, Mason, Carroll and potentially Pritchard, Onomah and Winks is not a bad record so far).

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
I was under the impression that Shaq was injured still, but even so, he hasn't even played an U21 game since August, so I would expect him to be very rusty, so I would rather have McEvoy. I don't think Njie or Son will have the match sharpness to start v Chelsea, so I would rather they go start v Qarabag to get that sharpness back and then be an option from the bench.

Shaq went to Wigan and played a few games before being injured, recovered about a month ago but found it difficult to get his place back at Wigan.

There's 2 weeks before the EL game. Would you be tempted to organise a couple of Spurs X1/u21 matches in that time period and play Shaq to get him match fit if you were Poch ?

spurs9 · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
Shaq went to Wigan and played a few games before being injured, recovered about a month ago but found it difficult to get his place back at Wigan.

There's 2 weeks before the EL game. Would you be tempted to organise a couple of Spurs X1/u21 matches in that time period and play Shaq to get him match fit if you were Poch ?

No point IMO, 2 spurs IX games wouldn't be enough considering how long he was injured for and how little time he has had in the last 3 months. If 2 games could be arranged, I would do it vs 2 adult teams, to give McEvoy more game time (I think he has only played once in the last 3 or4 U21 games) and also to see how Harrison copes. Depending on how Harrison does, it would be between him and McEvoy for me.

nightgoat · Nov 9, 2015

IGSpur said:
Must be Wilson. Thing is of the ones I have seen play, only Pereira I think has a decent future. Janko was a strong player. Their quality pales in comparison to ours.

Didn't Moyes give Wilson his debut?

newbie · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
I was under the impression that Shaq was injured still, but even so, he hasn't even played an U21 game since August, so I would expect him to be very rusty, so I would rather have McEvoy. I don't think Njie or Son will have the match sharpness to start v Chelsea, so I would rather they go start v Qarabag to get that sharpness back and then be an option from the bench.

I think Son will be ok its an international break its 3-4 weeks before Chelsea and 2 weeks before west ham its a decent amount of time to get fit.

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

newbie said:
I think Son will be ok its an international break its 3-4 weeks before Chelsea and 2 weeks before west ham its a decent amount of time to get fit.

Depends if Son goes off to play for South Korea.

IMO given that he was unable to make more than 15b mins in NLD I'd be asking South Koreans not to pick him and let him continue recovering in London.

There is a contrary view that says lets ask South Koreans to play him for maximum 45 mins in each of 2 games to help him get back match fitness.

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
No point IMO, 2 spurs IX games wouldn't be enough considering how long he was injured for and how little time he has had in the last 3 months. If 2 games could be arranged, I would do it vs 2 adult teams, to give McEvoy more game time (I think he has only played once in the last 3 or4 U21 games) and also to see how Harrison copes. Depending on how Harrison does, it would be between him and McEvoy for me.

I guess I'm not 100% keen on any of the alternatives :

McEvoy - Not match fit (but probably more so than Coulthirst). Same age as Coulthirst but very few games on loan in lower leagues.
Coulthirst - Not match fit, but a lot more first team experience at lower leagues than McEvoy (+ one EL appearance).
Harrison - I like him, but first real season in u21's so very big ask for him to step up at aged just 18. Probably less physically developed than Kane when he made his EL debut at a similar age against Hearts.

If we could organise a couple of Spurs X1 games and Harrison did ok in them, I think he would be my preferred choice - also gives him some experience which helps him develop.

McEvoy worries me as he's not been given much game time on any of the loans (ie playing adult football) he's had and ?I think that neither he nor Coulthirst are likely to make it in PL football, but I've been known to be wrong !

newbie · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
Depends if Son goes off to play for South Korea.

IMO given that he was unable to make more than 15b mins in NLD I'd be asking South Koreans not to pick him and let him continue recovering in London.

There is a contrary view that says lets ask South Koreans to play him for maximum 45 mins in each of 2 games to help him get back match fitness.

I agree with that, although maybe a trip home though would be good for him and a few games to get sharp.

Luka Van der Bale · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
Depends if Son goes off to play for South Korea.

IMO given that he was unable to make more than 15b mins in NLD I'd be asking South Koreans not to pick him and let him continue recovering in London.

There is a contrary view that says lets ask South Koreans to play him for maximum 45 mins in each of 2 games to help him get back match fitness.

They named him in their squad last week.

IGSpur · Nov 9, 2015

Spursidol said:
I guess I'm not 100% keen on any of the alternatives :

McEvoy - Not match fit (but probably more so than Coulthirst). Same age as Coulthirst but very few games on loan in lower leagues.
Coulthirst - Not match fit, but a lot more first team experience at lower leagues than McEvoy (+ one EL appearance).
Harrison - I like him, but first real season in u21's so very big ask for him to step up at aged just 18. Probably less physically developed than Kane when he made his EL debut at a similar age against Hearts.

If we could organise a couple of Spurs X1 games and Harrison did ok in them, I think he would be my preferred choice - also gives him some experience which helps him develop.

McEvoy worries me as he's not been given much game time on any of the loans (ie playing adult football) he's had and ?I think that neither he nor Coulthirst are likely to make it in PL football, but I've been known to be wrong !

I'd rather take Harrison for a few reasons. One he potentially has a future here, the others don't. He is in 'better form' playing regularly and scoring. He plays in a position where if it comes off, he could be legitimate option later in the season as we have no proper striker competition. If McEvoy has a good game realistically he isn't and shouldn't instantly jump ahead of any of our other wings. Also tbf to Harrison, he is slowly adapting to playing against bigger players. While he is by no means there, his pace could be useful. All he would really need is to get a chance to run off a shoulder and they won't catch him. He can also close down well and press from the front, and you don't need to be big to do that.

nightgoat said:
Didn't Moyes give Wilson his debut?

Think you're right.

Regarding the LVG/Poch introduction of youth debate, does anyone knows LVG's % of significant first team minutes after giving debuts compared to Poch's 60odd%

Seems his method is throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks. He will apparently give Tuanzebe a chance soon, which is crazy when we have CCV. I don't think either is right or wrong. I've seen Man Us players and they aren't that good but all it takes is one decent performance to get a look in next time. I wouldn't want Poch to do that exactly but I think if we tried more out we'd definitely find a lot more capable players.

IGSpur · Nov 9, 2015

THFCSPURS19 said:
The guy we've been linked with:

FIFA.com ‏@FIFAcom 4m4 minutes ago
Congratulations to Nigeria’s Victor Osimhen - adidas Golden Boot winner #U17WC

I stayed up to watch that game last night and I really like him. From players we can get him and Vanzeir are obtainable but we wouldn't need both. Though wouldn't be against it. RW Bennetts and Edwards are our only legit options atm. Bennetts needs at least a couple of years and I don't see Edwards' future though he should probably learn another role

This guy has an excellent touch, brought a couple of balls out of the sky. He's very big has some pace. I had never watched Coulibaly before but when he joined he was very one dimensional. Watching this kid, he can bring others into play and hold the ball up etc. Will try and watch he previous games but would be a decent signing.

edson · Nov 9, 2015

IGSpur said:
I stayed up to watch that game last night and I really like him. From players we can get him and Vanzeir are obtainable but we wouldn't need both. Though wouldn't be against it. RW Bennetts and Edwards are our only legit options atm. Bennetts needs at least a couple of years and I don't see Edwards' future though he should probably learn another role

This guy has an excellent touch, brought a couple of balls out of the sky. He's very big has some pace. I had never watched Coulibaly before but when he joined he was very one dimensional. Watching this kid, he can bring others into play and hold the ball up etc. Will try and watch he previous games but would be a decent signing.

Never understood why Coulibaly was ever rated his all round game was terrible the best thing he ever done was this.

IGSpur · Nov 9, 2015

Highlights against West Ham.

http://www.whufc.com/News/Articles/...ights-Tottenham-Hotspur-U18-2-1-West-Ham-Unit

EDIT - and our highlights, they have more of our goal build up

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs-tv/

IGSpur · Nov 9, 2015

edson said:
Never understood why Coulibaly was ever rated his all round game was terrible the best thing he ever done was this.

I think as a pure striker he was decent. As in he was explosive, had good pace and was strong for someone small and was a decent finisher. Very similar to Akindayini to be honest. I think he had a good team with Ivory Coast and hit a good patch of form that made him look clinical. He was decent when he played and I remember a great finish against Southampton but ye he was very limited. I think the scouts saw he scored most goal in WC and just went for him.

edson · Nov 9, 2015

IGSpur said:
I think as a pure striker he was decent. As in he was explosive, had good pace and was strong for someone small and was a decent finisher. Very similar to Akindayini to be honest. I think he had a good team with Ivory Coast and hit a good patch of form that made him look clinical. He was decent when he played and I remember a great finish against Southampton but ye he was very limited. I think the scouts saw he scored most goal in WC and just went for him.

He scored some good goals but so did Tomáš Pekhart a player who had a reputation but like Coulibaly was never going to make it with us.

IGSpur · Nov 9, 2015

edson said:
He scored some good goals but so did Tomáš Pekhart a player who had a reputation but like Coulibaly was never going to make it with us.

Don't remember Peckhart much tbh but agree Coulibaly didn't have enough.

Also and I thought it was worth mentioning in here, I saw a piece of ITK posted from @Blake Griffin from another forum that a fan had a conversation from Lamela and he said that Edwards will be a star. I wonder if he is training with the first team now or Lamela was just watching some games or training sessions. Either way, it's a positive review.

newbie · Nov 9, 2015

To be honest we don't have much success with recruiting foreign young players outside of Europe. It must be hard to adjust especially from places like Africa. The weathers polar opposite, foods different, laugauge, culture, your proberly suddenly playing against kids who are a lot better. Language again must be a huge problem even accents, time difference the pitches are probably faster.

Money, lots of money, slow horse, fast women, and white powder (make a good book title for an autobiography).

spurs9 · Nov 9, 2015

newbie said:
To be honest we don't have much success with recruiting foreign young players outside of Europe. It must be hard to adjust especially from places like Africa. The weathers polar opposite, foods different, laugauge, culture, your proberly suddenly playing against kids who are a lot better. Language again must be a huge problem even accents, time difference the pitches are probably faster.

Money, lots of money, slow horse, fast women, and white powder (make a good book title for an autobiography).

What young players have we recruited outside of Europe? from memory, it's just Rodrigo Defendi isn't it?

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