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Player Watch: Victor Wanyama

Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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THFCSPURS19 said:
Pochettino is obviously part of the decision-making of all signings. Anything Pleat says about him being responsible for the signing is rubbish. Remember when Poch went to the MK Dons-United match? Why do you think that happened?

Your point on Walker makes no sense. You say Walker hasn't gone to another level, but then recognise that he has improved defensively. Even if that was down to Pochettino, it's still Walker who has improved :confused:

I think Son is a very good player who has had a disrupted season, and he'll be much better next season. He's shown much more than Lamela did in his first season.

On Alderweireld, if I recall correctly, you frequently advised us to recognise that Alderweireld was part of a strong unit at Southampton, and that this may mean he wouldn't be as good at Spurs.
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Regarding Walker, I said "any improvement in his defending", so yes, I acknowledge there has been an improvement in his defending, but I don't think his all round play has reached "another level".

This is my first post on Alderweireld I believe:

"I think Alderweireld always looked like a decent CB whenever I saw him last year, but we do have to take account that Southampton's ultra conservative system makes their defenders look better, but more importantly he would want to be first choice and I would be really pissed off if we were buying him to usurp Dier's progress."

I don't think that's a crazy statement.


I don't think (23yo) Son showed more than (19yo) Lamela did in his first season. And I certainly don't think he will ever be top quality.

And while we're at it, I forgot to mention Alli. I was honest enough to say I'd only seen him 3 or so times and questioned how he would fair in a CM2 in the EPL. I had a conversation with you where I said, you could see the boy has ability I just wasn't sure how he'd fit into our CM2. And I stand by that, I still think that. It wasn't a slight on the boy, it was a tactical observation made on, admittedly scant evidence, I feelt/feel the same about players like Lampard, Gerrard, Pogba, Yaya etc. I also said I'd rather be making that type of signing (investing 5m in a 1yo with potential, than some other types of signing we have made).
 
coy-spurs1882

coy-spurs1882

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Aug 31, 2012
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raggy said:
Pleat clearly had input on Alli... but Levy has said about 5 times now that Pochettino has the final decision on all signings. Plus I find it pretty hard to believe that Alli was only a Pleat thing, considering Paul Mitchell our head of recruitment was at MK Dons for the majority of Alli's time at MK. I think Alli was probably a unanimous decision from several people even though Pleat has somehow come out with the majority of the credit, probably because he's told the press that.

I don't know how Bus-Conductor can enjoy football when he has such massive doubts about everybody that's not an academy player, clearly he has no trust in the coaching or scouting staff at all or in Pochettino's judgement of players. Can't imagine following the club is any fun with so much doubt.
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Surely Pleat discussed Alli with Poch and Mitchell before persuading Levy to sign Alli?
 
Dharmabum

Dharmabum

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Aug 16, 2003
8,274
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Bus-Conductor said:
A couple of others like @Dharmabum @Japhet have mooted Gueye and I think of the two, if we are buying this type, and everyone knows I'd rather we were buying a slightly different type, I'd probably take Gueye. Tackles more, intercepts more, makes more passes, more forward passes, more key passes, creates more, even covers more ground (I seem to remember someone posting) just a better all round player than Wanyama. Surely this is what the scouting and analytics should be doing, looking away from the obvious.
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Wrong man, mate :cool: I can't remember recommending Gueye but I may have posted something about him in the past.
 
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

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raggy said:
Pleat clearly had input on Alli... but Levy has said about 5 times now that Pochettino has the final decision on all signings. Plus I find it pretty hard to believe that Alli was only a Pleat thing, considering Paul Mitchell our head of recruitment was at MK Dons for the majority of Alli's time at MK. I think Alli was probably a unanimous decision from several people even though Pleat has somehow come out with the majority of the credit, probably because he's told the press that.
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And @THFCSPURS19

I think that is a fair assessment. I of course accept that Pochettino almost certainly has an input in all transfer decisions and Mitchell (and Pochettino) would have had a (big?) part in Alli's signing. I think him, Wimmer and Alderweireld have been good business from both footballing and financial perspectives. I don't think Wimmer is as good as Vertonghen but he did fulfil a vital remit, at a cheap price in a position we didn't have a viable alternative.

I don't particularly think Trppier, Son, Njie were great for different reasons, I don't necessarily think they were all disasters either, I didn't say that at the time of their signings or since, just for various reasons I had or have reservations or ambivalence.

I was also taking on board some of the players were were supposedly pursuing since Poch's arrival, but obviously not all.

raggy said:
I don't know how Bus-Conductor can enjoy football when he has such massive doubts about everybody that's not an academy player, clearly he has no trust in the coaching or scouting staff at all or in Pochettino's judgement of players. Can't imagine following the club is any fun with so much doubt.
Click to expand...

I don't have massive doubts about everyone that's not an academy player, I just think we have an excellent academy, acknowledged as one of the best in the country, producing some very good footballers and we need to have, not a seismic shift, but a moderate shift toward making a bit better use of the players it is producing and not blocking their pathway with "squad" type players for those positions.
 
THFCSPURS19

THFCSPURS19

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Jan 6, 2013
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Bus-Conductor said:
I don't think (23yo) Son showed more than (19yo) Lamela did in his first season. And I certainly don't think he will ever be top quality.
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Lamela was 21- and only showed glimpses, whereas Son has scored 8 goals. I have always been a massive fan of Lamela, but it cannot be denied that his first season wasn't very good. He always had clear massive potential though, which he is beginning to reach, with his good season ending with what's looking like a great Copa America for him.

Son has adapted to the league better than Lamela did in his first season, and that's a very good sign for the future.
 
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

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THFCSPURS19 said:
Lamela was 21- and only showed glimpses, whereas Son has scored 8 goals. I have always been a massive fan of Lamela, but it cannot be denied that his first season wasn't very good. He always had clear massive potential though, which he is beginning to reach, with his good season ending with what's looking like a great Copa America for him.

Son has adapted to the league better than Lamela did in his first season, and that's a very good sign for the future.
Click to expand...

Son has scored most of those as a striker, no ? Lamela never played as a striker. Even in Lamela'a first season he had quite a few assists didn't he ? And always got stuck in. I just don't agree at all that Son's season has been any more of a success than Lamela's first. Both have been erratic, but I at least saw slightly more promise for the future in Lamela's.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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Bus-Conductor said:
And @THFCSPURS19

I think that is a fair assessment. I of course accept that Pochettino almost certainly has an input in all transfer decisions and Mitchell (and Pochettino) would have had a (big?) part in Alli's signing. I think him, Wimmer and Alderweireld have been good business from both footballing and financial perspectives. I don't think Wimmer is as good as Vertonghen but he did fulfil a vital remit, at a cheap price in a position we didn't have a viable alternative.

I don't particularly think Trppier, Son, Njie were great for different reasons, I don't necessarily think they were all disasters either, I didn't say that at the time of their signings or since, just for various reasons I had or have reservations or ambivalence.

I was also taking on board some of the players were were supposedly pursuing since Poch's arrival, but obviously not all.



I don't have massive doubts about everyone that's not an academy player, I just think we have an excellent academy, acknowledged as one of the best in the country, producing some very good footballers and we need to have, not a seismic shift, but a moderate shift toward making a bit better use of the players it is producing and not blocking their pathway with "squad" type players for those positions.
Click to expand...

But BC do you not think the Club, Pochettino and his team etc, are acutely aware of this? I'm sure this is discussed all the time and no matter how much we speculate on such, they're better placed to determine the balance of how those decisions fall? Surely?
 
THFCSPURS19

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
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Bus-Conductor said:
Son has scored most of those as a striker, no ? Lamela never played as a striker. Even in Lamela'a first season he had quite a few assists didn't he ? And always got stuck in. I just don't agree at all that Son's season has been any more of a success than Lamela's first. Both have been erratic, but I at least saw slightly more promise for the future in Lamela's.
Click to expand...

I was about to respond, and then I remembered this is the Wanyama thread.

Sorry guys :(
 
F

For the love of Spurs

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Mar 28, 2015
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My issue with Son as with Chadli is the off the ball work. Lamela even in his first season was great at pressing and imposing himself on the game, his decision making on the ball was bad though.

With Chadli when he doesn't score he doesn't get that involved and with Son he is all over the place off the ball. I hope Son next season will sort his positioning out, we can't carry players even if they score goals. Our pressing is only as good as the weakest link and when our pressing was broken we did look exposed in a number of games last season.
 
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

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@am_yisrael_chai

In hindsight, maybe what I said was a little harsh for various reasons, probably influenced heavily by our constant pursuit of Pochettino's ex-Southampton players (some of whom I like to be fair, Shaw, Schniederlin, Lallana, some of whom less so Lovren, Wanyama).

To be fair to me, I didn't say "posh is shit at choosing players" I said I think I trust his coaching and improving more than his recruitment choices. That is a compliment (even though it was a sideways one) as I have been very complimentary about his coaching at least.

But I am not, in general, a fan of the "one man" or "manager" chooses the players system, and have been consistent in this for as long as I can remember. I prefer the acquisition by committee system, where the manager has input and in many cases final say (first team acquisitions for example) but not the whole say.

I endorse the system we are operating now completely, just don't necessarily approve all the decisions that committee is making, but I don't think they have been disastrous in most cases either.
 
Last edited:
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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Mr Pink said:
But BC do you not think the Club, Pochettino and his team etc, are acutely aware of this? I'm sure this is discussed all the time and no matter how much we speculate on such, they're better placed to determine the balance of how those decisions fall? Surely?
Click to expand...

In theory yes, in practice no, I don't think they are always brave enough with decisions where academy players are concerned. Are you telling me you think Pritchard, for example, shouldn't have got a chance in the second half of the season instead of being packed off to WBA ? That was ridiculous.

KWP is probably the most promising RB outside of first team football in England right now, he was played in two first team friendlies at the end of last season and equipped himself exceedingly well. He should have been promoted to back up RB IMO. Of course he may have made the odd mistake, but Trippier has (he gave a pen away in one of his first games) and so does Walker, still, so where's the huge compromise ?
 
stevenurse

stevenurse

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May 14, 2007
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Wanyama, for £11m will be great business for a club in the top 4 looking to ensure quality squad rotation. End of. Some academy player who's never played any first team football (at any level), will not be better for us than an CL experienced international captain for, current market price, a bargain.

Lock the thread until he signs. Then we can open it to say how shit he is before he's even kicked a ball in our colours.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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Bus-Conductor said:
In theory yes, in practice no, I don't think they are always brave enough with decisions where academy players are concerned. Are you telling me you think Pritchard, for example, shouldn't have got a chance in the second half of the season instead of being packed off to WBA ? That was ridiculous.

KWP is probably the most promising RB outside of first team football in England right now, he was played in two first team friendlies at the end of last season and equipped himself exceedingly well. He should have been promoted to back up RB IMO. Of course he may have made the odd mistake, but Trippier has (he gave a pen away in one of his first games) and so does Walker, still, so where's the huge compromise ?
Click to expand...

I guess its easier to be 'braver' when we don't feel the weight, expectation and real life pressure of those decisions sitting here discussing it on a forum.

I get where you're coming from though but you know yourself its a massive business and its all fiercely competitive, so opting for experience over younger talents who may not be deemed ready is understandable when you consider the expectations and pressures surrounding the Club.
 
stevenurse

stevenurse

Palacios' neck fat
May 14, 2007
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Some people (Not just BC but in this instance unfortunately its his turn) cant be pleased. We could be on the verge of signing Pogba but would argue it would delay the development of Cy Goddard :rolleyes:
 
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