Ratings vs Man City

Marvinspur · Oct 2, 2016

walton said:
This. One of the main improvements under Poch has been each individual's understanding of the Team. Whichever of Son/Lamela tried to defy team orders by overriding the designated taker needs to be slapped, and dropped if need be. The team ethos is critical to our play, and that cannot be compromised.

I watched the press conference (can be found here)

In short he is fine with whoever taking it. He has Kane as the main one then a group of 3 players who are allowed to decide for themselves to take the penalties accounting for form and confidence during play. As Pochettino said its better to have two players who both want to take the penalty then everyone cowering out. It was a bad penalty it happens.

oohaahedgar · Oct 2, 2016

i voted Wanyama but I thought Walker was superb and I think he is becoming world class. By thatt I mean becoming the best right back in the world.

Marvinspur · Oct 2, 2016

Mr Pink said:
Disagree a bit with that. A few passes put us under a little pressure.

But look, he's a fabulous keeper and today they were all fantastic - so not going to go on about it.

I think this is exaggerated. People tend to be much more frightened and put their own panic on to the players. Like when he first started coming out you could see the fans were a bit scared he would mess up. Now fans trust that he is going to get it right.

His distribution was fantastic today often relieving the pressure from a very high press. His main issues with distribution is when kicking it long. It was also poor when he arrived. But those simple arching balls to the full backs are becoming quietly effective. Im not saying it never happens but its rare. Nothing close to how the City back line dealt with our press today.

Gaz_Gammon · Oct 2, 2016

Chris Finch said:
My biggest negative was Hugo's distribution. Not normally great but abysmal today

Pep paid 15.3 million for the 33 year old John Cleese impersonator, i know which one i'd sooner have kicking the ball into row Z.

We won today not only for the goals we scored but for the chances Lloris kept out. At the end of the day the last thing any keeper should be brought to a club for is for his ability to pass the ball with his feet.

Well unless your name is Joe Hart.

Neon_Knight_ · Oct 2, 2016

@majorhank said:
Wanyama - Again amazing. My only gripe is that he keeps getting booked which means he has to ease up on challenges. Think It took Dier until 30th game maybe before he was 1 card away from a suspension. Wanyama must be pretty close already lol. Yellow card aside, he snuffs everything out.

You're right, but at the same time I don't think we ned to worry too much about one match suspensions this season, with the squad we have now. Today evidenced this nicely...one of our best performances and we were missing three of our standout performers from last season.

DIEHARD · Oct 2, 2016

oohaahedgar said:
i voted Wanyama but I thought Walker was superb and I think he is becoming world class. By thatt I mean becoming the best right back in the world.

He has become an accomplished and mature right back. Today he didnt go hell for lewther and attack nah ... that was like Roses job. Walker is my erm one of those adopted player thingies... great season so far,

danielneeds · Oct 2, 2016

mpickard2087 said:
Pressing.

Let's get right to it, as it was the heart and soul of our performance. Most have been a bit concerned about our pressing efforts so far this season, even more pointed out in the run up to the game that we needed to be bang on it for this game.... And we weren't disappointed. What we got was quite probably (just going off the top of my head) the most ultra aggressive press that we have employed under Poch, we stopped them playing and even better forced mistakes. The first 20 minutes in particular were just magnificent. Total buy in across the pitch, whether it be Son leading things up front or the fullbacks hurtling out to intercept the ball. It was coherent, committed, and the foundations on which the victory was made.

This was also our most impressive press because, in my opinion, it was also the most elaborate and nuanced we have seen under Poch. We saw different players taking turns to spearhead it, we'd press in different initial shapes and were brave in the numbers we committed to it. There was also a fascinating little spell - we hear about Bielsa and his influence on Poch, and Poch occasionally dips into his mentors guidebook eg. the spare man back three vs Watford last year. Today I think he did the same again... I saw a Bilbao game live about four years ago vs. Barca where they went with a man to man press across the pitch and it was fascinating to watch. There was a spell first half today where we seemed to do exactly that.

Our pressing game went up another level today, not just in individual commitment but in application and ideas. I really hope we can make this a common event. It doesn't just need to be employed in the biggest of games.

No team can press like we pressed today for a whole PL season - it's impossible. The players would be on their knees in March.

If anything the pressing today further fuels my belief that Poch has learned lessons about how to manage a squad over a mammoth season.

Expect us to go back to a lower intensity style and grind out results again until we get to the Emirates, and then increase the intensity when we get to the business end of the season.

Poch is evolving as a coach - and it's a glorious thing to see.

thinktank · Oct 2, 2016

danielneeds said:
No team can press like we pressed today for a whole PL season - it's impossible. The players would be on their knees in March.

If anything the pressing today further fuels my belief that Poch has learned lessons about how to manage a squad over a mammoth season.

Expect us to go back to a lower intensity style and grind out results again until we get to the Emirates, and then increase the intensity when we get to the business end of the season.

Poch is evolving as a coach - and it's a glorious thing to see.

Mate, poch has been pissed off with our lack of intensity and tonight said - to paraphrase - that that level of pace and passion is the standard we need to keep up.

danielneeds · Oct 2, 2016

thinktank said:
Mate, poch has been pissed off with our lack of intensity and tonight said - to paraphrase - that that level of pace and passion is the standard we need to keep up.

He talked about passion and intensity but not about the hyper pressing we saw today. I'm convinced he's altering his blueprint somewhat. I'll bet any money we have more gas in the tank come the run in this year.

lukespurs7 · Oct 2, 2016

DIEHARD said:
All 10s but wanyama for me. Although rose was exceptional and defenders were magnificent.

This.

lukespurs7 · Oct 2, 2016

kd2000 said:
Everyone played a part but for me super jan was man of the match. His best game for a long time

he was outstanding

Bus-Conductor · Oct 2, 2016

mpickard2087 said:
I was so impressed I'm not sure how to make my thoughts coherent...

We've had discussion after discussion on here about what we had to do to get to the next level, what could be improved and dare we say it maybe where Poch needs to evolve (eg. The strict adherence to the 4-2-3-1, and maybe starting to get predictable). There has also been plenty of discussion recently about our performances so far this season, in particular the drop in our pressing game and whether this was a concern. Baring all that in mind, today was a fascinating and extremely encouraging watch.

Pressing.

Let's get right to it, as it was the heart and soul of our performance. Most have been a bit concerned about our pressing efforts so far this season, even more pointed out in the run up to the game that we needed to be bang on it for this game.... And we weren't disappointed. What we got was quite probably (just going off the top of my head) the most ultra aggressive press that we have employed under Poch, we stopped them playing and even better forced mistakes. The first 20 minutes in particular were just magnificent. Total buy in across the pitch, whether it be Son leading things up front or the fullbacks hurtling out to intercept the ball. It was coherent, committed, and the foundations on which the victory was made.

This was also our most impressive press because, in my opinion, it was also the most elaborate and nuanced we have seen under Poch. We saw different players taking turns to spearhead it, we'd press in different initial shapes and were brave in the numbers we committed to it. There was also a fascinating little spell - we hear about Bielsa and his influence on Poch, and Poch occasionally dips into his mentors guidebook eg. the spare man back three vs Watford last year. Today I think he did the same again... I saw a Bilbao game live about four years ago vs. Barca where they went with a man to man press across the pitch and it was fascinating to watch. There was a spell first half today where we seemed to do exactly that.

Our pressing game went up another level today, not just in individual commitment but in application and ideas. I really hope we can make this a common event. It doesn't just need to be employed in the biggest of games.

Team shape.

We've all seen the debate, we all have our ideas and opinions. Quite a few have been worried Poch's 4-2-3-1 is maybe getting a bit predictable and easier to counteract. In the last few weeks he's pleasantly surprised, and with injuries gone to a 4-1-4-1 or whatever you wish to call it. Today though we got even more. It was fluid, it was flexible, there wasn't a set shape. It was intriguing, it was encouraging.

Right from the start, when the opening few minutes saw Eriksen and Sissoko in almost a dual right midfield tandem, it was hard to pin down what we were doing. There was the 4-1-4-1 again. Other times 4-2-3-1. Sometimes Sissoko was wide with Eriksen central, other times vice versa. There were occasions where I'd settled on it being a 4-1-3-1-1 almost. Then you'd have Alli virtually as a second striker in a 4-1-3-2 or 4-2-2-2 shape.

Basically it was all going on. As someone who dreams of us one day getting to the point of being a side playing total football where we can seamlessly adapt and switch to outwit our opponents I was seriously impressed.

Use of the ball.

Finally as a short note, I'm delighted to say that I felt we played out from the back much better today. I'm usually critical of how we deal with teams that press us, but today I saw a lot more calmness and decisiveness on the ball, players able to take the ball on the turn, and turning the ball round the corner etc. or finding the open man with a pass between two markers. Bravo. I also felt we were smart when nothing was on as an outball to play for territory, turn them round with a ball over the top, and start the press again.

Individually I don't think it's fair to point out anyone, it was a real team effort and everyone put in a shift. In terms of what they did off the ball I'd say every player was superb. The eight man press, if you include the fullbacks with our midfield and attack, gave it their all for three quarters of the game and put the stranglehold on. When we then dropped in the last 20 minutes, with a few players starting to flag and to preserve what we had it, and City finally managed to have their spell of pressure it was time for the two centrebacks to follow in the spirit of the rest of their team mates. They were both excellent in the final stages, Vertonghen especially so.

I mused in the match thread after the game whether that is now the best performance we've put in under Poch. For me that title currently goes to the 2-1 win vs Arsenal in the 14/15 season. That was a full 90 minutes of high line, high press, high tempo. Suffocating them as the whole game was played in their half. Today was even better from a pressing aspect and doing a demolition job on one of the big boys, just a question whether the 70 mins today beats the full 90 mins of that NLD and so takes the crown... Maybe just!

To end this delirious ramble, what should encourage us is that there was clear evidence that this wasn't even a 'perfect' game. Without wishing to criticise the performance, how many times did we not make the final or critical pass when well placed? Still yet to discover that clinical and utterly ruthless edge in the final third. If we discovered that, and added it to today, then bloody hell...

Now the small task of making sure we repeat the performance of today in the coming weeks and months. Over to Poch and the lads...

Lloris - A couple of good saves when we needed him. Kicking was extra scattergun today though at times.

Walker - Didn't put a foot wrong. Very good.

Alderweireld - Very good.

Vertonghen - Very good bordering on absolutely superb in the final stages.

Rose - Did his best to get a red card with his handbags yellow and then switching off and fouling Sterling, and did lose the plot slightly I thought late on, but a very good return. Was up and down the left flank, and put in a superb cross for the opening goal. I have missed our chippy, angry, little pitbull and his puffed out chest. Welcome back.

Wanyama - Another very good game pressing, mopping up, and shielding in front of the back four. After a few games I said I didn't think he read the game that well, he still has his moments, but I apologise profusely.

Sissoko - Tactically he was put to good use. Use his energy to press, harry, close down and break up play until he runs out of steam - and it worked. He did dawdle on the ball at times and fail to find a final pass, but I also thought he had moments of nice composure, especially playing out from the back.

Eriksen - Pressed, intercepted, put in a shift, still managed to be our possession hub... Another very good game.

Lamela - Put in his usual all action shift for the cause. Probably our most erratic player with the ball though, and it wasn't a great penalty.

Alli - Much better. Worked hard, put himself about. Less dicking about with the ball, and in fact had some nice moments. Really nice composed finish for the goal.

Son - I've said in recent weeks that despite the goals I haven't been that impressed with his all round game. Well today he didn't score, but his all round game was superb up top. Led the press for 90 mins, held the ball up and battled away as much as his (often outnumbered) stature could battle, and ran the channels to try and stretch them. Wonderful through ball assist on the turn. Far and away his best Spurs performance.

Poch - I doff my cap to you. Hope you've bottled that performance...

This game and that Arsenal game are the two stand outs for me too. Arsenal still just shades it for me because it was the perfect performance, relentless from first minute to last with and without the ball and the first time we've outplayed, out pressed, out everythinged Arsenal, and beat them. But today's was an exceedingly close second.

thinktank · Oct 2, 2016

danielneeds said:
He talked about passion and intensity but not about the hyper pressing we saw today. I'm convinced he's altering his blueprint somewhat. I'll bet any money we have more gas in the tank come the run in this year.

The level of pressing up to this game won't be acceptable to him, mate. We may not see the uber pressing like today for a few,, but we will see a significant increase in intensity, distinct from the level we saw up to today.

Our slow play this season is not part of an overall plan. He hasn't been happy about it.

Mr Pink · Oct 3, 2016

danielneeds said:
He talked about passion and intensity but not about the hyper pressing we saw today. I'm convinced he's altering his blueprint somewhat. I'll bet any money we have more gas in the tank come the run in this year.

We will have more in the tank come the end of the season mainly because we've increased our strength in depth quite considerably.

mpickard2087 · Oct 3, 2016

danielneeds said:
No team can press like we pressed today for a whole PL season - it's impossible. The players would be on their knees in March.

If anything the pressing today further fuels my belief that Poch has learned lessons about how to manage a squad over a mammoth season.

Expect us to go back to a lower intensity style and grind out results again until we get to the Emirates, and then increase the intensity when we get to the business end of the season.

Poch is evolving as a coach - and it's a glorious thing to see.

I agree it would be almost impossible to see the ultra aggressive intense pressing we saw today, I'd like to think we get somewhere nearer that though than what we have seen in the rest of the season so far and not just saving ourselves for the big games.

There will also be a number of games where we dominate the ball and so won't have to go with that sort of effort every week.

mpickard2087 · Oct 3, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
This game and that Arsenal game are the two stand outs for me too. Arsenal still just shades it for me because it was the perfect performance, relentless from first minute to last with and without the ball and the first time we've outplayed, out pressed, out everythinged Arsenal, and beat them. But today's was an exceedingly close second.

You could argue it either way, I've gone back and forth calling it when writing my post. Let's just say they'd be 1a and 1b on the list of performances.

Bus-Conductor · Oct 3, 2016

am_yisrael_chai said:
I bet u he will though. He will be the one to find fault with Wanyama, Son and Walker because he doesn't like any of them.

I explained at the time and several times since why I wasn't in favour of the Wanyama signing, but have since praised him just about every game he's played, probably made him MOTM in more games than anyone, and repeatedly stated I'd pick him ahead of other options. Even when saying I don't want to see the Dier/Wanyama/Dembele CM2, I've stated it's Wanyama I'd keep out of the three of them to play next to a more footballing option.

I repeatedly defended Son's role last season, I've never not liked him, at worst it was indifference, several times stating he was very adequate for his role as striker or occasional AM, in the summer I stated I was indifferent to him staying or leaving, that's all, cracked some joke about me dusting off my boots if we need someone to replace him, but have given him plenty of credit for the good stuff he's doing this season. You said you thought he'd change a lot of people's opinion this season, and so far I think you've been proven to be very right, credit to you for that, and my indifference is now looking misplaced, long may it continue.

Walker will always be Walker, I cannot pretend I been overly impressed with his oeuvre to date, but have again, repeatedly acknowledged that his defending has been consistently better for the last year.

dannythomas · Oct 3, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
I explained at the time and several times since why I wasn't in favour of the Wanyama signing, but have since praised him just about every game he's played, probably made him MOTM in more games than anyone, and repeatedly stated I'd pick him ahead of other options. Even when saying I don't want to see the Dier/Wanyama/Dembele CM2, I've stated it's Wanyama I'd keep out of the three of them to play next to a more footballing option.

I repeatedly defended Son's role last season, I've never not liked him, at worst it was indifference, several times stating he was very adequate for his role as striker or occasional AM, in the summer I stated I was indifferent to him staying or leaving, that's all, cracked some joke about me dusting off my boots if we need someone to replace him, but have given him plenty of credit for the good stuff he's doing this season. You said you thought he'd change a lot of people's opinion this season, and so far I think you've been proven to be very right, credit to you for that, and my indifference is now looking misplaced, long may it continue.

Walker will always be Walker, I cannot pretend I been overly impressed with his oeuvre to date, but have again, repeatedly acknowledged that his defending has been consistently better for the last year.

Last season it made sense to stick with Dier and Dembele because our options of Mason / Bentaleb / Carroll were not good enough . Before you say that you also advocated Winks and Onomah, clearly Poch didn't think they were ready ( and still doesn't and sensibly is integrating them into the squad with occasional appearances from the bench and league cup etc.

We had a strong first 11 but couldn't cope with injuries / fatigue /suspension. Our transfer business this summer was excellent from the point of view of extending our options without the lavish spending of our rivals. Why ? Because we already had a strong starting point, we didn't need to bring in replacements for our team from last year. Now Wanyama has been excellent and maybe is an upgrade on Dier. The other signings are high quality options. But why would you have a problem with Wanyama and Dembele together in midfield ? I think that would scare the life out of most teams. In fact I am quite sure that when Dembele is match fit he will come in , probably for Sissoko.

I have just read some of the 63 pages of post match post mortem on Blue Moon and do you know what so many say ? They can't cope when they have injuries to key players, they need to improve their squad depth with more signings in January. Or no De Bruyne no team. Sounds familiar ? Shows how we have moved forward from last season.

LexingtonSpurs · Oct 3, 2016

@majorhank said:
Wanyama - Again amazing. My only gripe is that he keeps getting booked which means he has to ease up on challenges. Think It took Dier until 30th game maybe before he was 1 card away from a suspension. Wanyama must be pretty close already lol. Yellow card aside, he snuffs everything out.

Selective memory, imo.

Dier was suspended for yellow card accumulation after the 8th game last season. He missed the Liverpool match.

ohtottenham! · Oct 3, 2016

mpickard2087 said:
I agree it would be almost impossible to see the ultra aggressive intense pressing we saw today, I'd like to think we get somewhere nearer that though than what we have seen in the rest of the season so far and not just saving ourselves for the big games.

There will also be a number of games where we dominate the ball and so won't have to go with that sort of effort every week.

This exactly! It's what the most successful coaches do in terms of approach to teams/squads over the course of a long season with multiple competitions.

Poch's establishing an approach to a playing style that the whole squad has bought into. It's great that he seems to have integrated that approach through the whole squad...I'm seeing Wanyama, Sissoko and Nkoudou showing that already on the park! We've had Kane, Dembele, Dier, Rose and others out over multiple games, and we're still thriving!

That style is effective, but requires demanding energy resources that can only be maintained through a sensible game to game approach, which is adapted to the opposition, and full use of a squad that is ready and able to play their roles.

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