Reasons To Be Upbeat

danielneeds · Nov 23, 2016

@Bobby__Lucky said:
1, No Man City game didn't convince me. It was more off the ball quality than on. We really wasn't that good, it was a very decent efficient plan which worked. It didn't impress me, no not at all. If we didn't get the lucky own goal to kick things off could quite easily have been a 0-0, was actually that kind of game.

2, these were not high pressure games, they were group stages. These are groups not knock out.

3, I think to bring up Andre is very relevant. He didn't inherite a strong club. King, Modric and VDV which were our real world class players all left or retired at the start of his tenure. Lloris was brought in under Andre and was his choice by all accounts. Rose improved drastically under Andre, do you forget that? Poch continued his improvement but Danny was getting MOM performances under Andre. Bale actually publicly credited Andre, do you forget that. If you are saying what would this team be like with Bale? Then consider what Andre's team would of been like with the Kane of Today. Dembele was actually very good in his first Season under Andre. Similar to what he is now, it's the gap in between where Dembele was under par. Andre lost Modric, VDV and King immediately from the team prior which was huge. Also had to rebuild the team with Bale money with choices from the transfer committee. Andre improved many players it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Rose in particular. If we look back on the threads here Andre was praised for improving players.

We were a team that lost its core and spine when he arrived.

Lloris, Walker, Vertongen, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen and Lamela all played regular under Andre, and remember Sandro had his big injury under Andre. Then Bale left.

Andre's team with Bale + Kane of today is much the same as pochs team of today with Bale. Goals wise very similar. We had trouble creating chances under Andre & we certainly have trouble creating chances now.

I'd say that Maurice picked up Tottenham in a better place than when Andre did, hard to fail after the hated and ill fated Tim spell. Andre also played against better opposition as his highest points total meant we were 5th with a higher total than we finished 3rd.

Too many draws was Andre's supporter complaints. Don't create many chances it was said. Players look disinterested it was said. We can't score without Bale it was said. Football style was boring it was said.

All sounds very familiar doesn't it?

Andre got the chop for a similar performance and thrashing that Newcastle gave us at the end of last season. Regardless Andre's record was probably better than Maurice's game for game if we where to take Andre's number to pochs number.

Andre definately had a harder time, if given time and the players he wanted (poch has this Andre didn't) I think there wouldn't be much diference.

The emperor wears new clothes...or does he?

Poch:

Games: 88
Won: 44
Draw: 26
Lost: 18

Andre:

Games: 80
Won: 44
Draw: 20
Lost: 16

No context to your stats though. AVB inherited a golden squad - one of the best. Poch inherited Sherwood'a mess.

sundanceyid10 · Nov 23, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
These things go in circles. We cannot have it where every season is a golden one, fortunes fluctuate. This will be the way of it wether Poch is in charge, Fergie, Pep or whoever. So although i'm not happy with the way things are right now i'm not about to stick my head in the oven either, there's plenty of things to be positive about if you want to see them.

Amen, we are unbeaten in the league and a few points of the top, even thought we have been out of sorts and form. Picking up points while not playing well is not something historically we have done usually. It is a trait of good sides though that even while not playing well they stay in the mix. I am confident we will hit form soon.

kungfugrip · Nov 23, 2016

Not much point having a state of the art training complex if that is the sort of football is what we got last night. Utter crap. Players and their agents everywhere would've watched that and instantly crossed us off their list of clubs they might consider joining.

Thing is, in my life (40 odd years) I have never seen us play so consistently badly over so many games......and that's with a team that is meant to be one of the best we've ever had.

hughy · Nov 23, 2016

I'm almost admitting defeat for the Chelsea game, a point would be like Christmas come early for us. However, it'll be a massive December.

Swansea (H)
United (A)
Hull (H)
Burnley (H)
Southampton (A)

We really need to start turning draws in to wins in the League. We could realistically get 10-12/15 points in this run of games, but then again we know we could also get 5/15. I think we will be know a lot more about the players will to succeed and how much fight they have in them by the end of the year.

Archibald&Crooks · Nov 23, 2016

kungfugrip said:
Not much point having a state of the art training complex if that is the sort of football is what we got last night. Utter crap. Players and their agents everywhere would've watched that and instantly crossed us off their list of clubs they might consider joining.

No, they wouldn't. They don't look at football like us fans do. Give them what they want, they will come.

kungfugrip said:
Thing is, in my life (40 odd years) I have never seen us play so consistently badly over so many games......and that's with a team that is meant to be one of the best we've ever had.

Seriously?

I can't square that one away at all............It's not hard at all to recall the 90's when we really were crap. I suspect your expectaions being let down has more to do with it.

Spurs will make us feel good again, promise*

* I just can't say when

talkshowhost86 · Nov 23, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
These things go in circles. We cannot have it where every season is a golden one, fortunes fluctuate. This will be the way of it wether Poch is in charge, Fergie, Pep or whoever. So although i'm not happy with the way things are right now i'm not about to stick my head in the oven either, there's plenty of things to be positive about if you want to see them.

I think the frustrating thing is that our mediocre circles are so fucking massive compared to our good ones.

We seem to have gone from our best team since the start of the Premiership, back to our hugely mediocre selves in the space of one Summer.

Gassin's finest · Nov 23, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
No, they wouldn't. They don't look at football like us fans do. Give them what they want, they will come.

Seriously? I can't square that one away at all............It's not hard at all to recall the 90's when we really were crap. I suspect your expectaions being let down has more to do with it.

Spurs will make us feel good again, promise*

* I just can't say when

Not in my lifetime, but weren't we actually relegated in the 70's? That must have been some pretty shite football...

danielneeds · Nov 23, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
I think the frustrating thing is that our mediocre circles are so fucking massive compared to our good ones.

We seem to have gone from our best team since the start of the Premiership, back to our hugely mediocre selves in the space of one Summer.

I really don't see that last bit. We didn't play well at the start of last season either - we weren't that great in Europe at a lower level last season either too. And yet we found a flow and started playing great stuff around Xmas time.

People are making out like the season is over or something. In a few weeks, Kane could be scoring, confidence will come to some players who are currently short of it, and everything will be rosey again.

talkshowhost86 · Nov 23, 2016

danielneeds said:
I really don't see that last bit. We didn't play well at the start of last season either - we weren't that great in Europe at a lower level last season either too. And yet we found a flow and started playing great stuff around Xmas time.

People are making out like the season is over or something. In a few weeks, Kane could be scoring, confidence will come to some players who are currently short of it, and everything will be rosey again.

So what you're saying is that our 'good' circle was even smaller than I was thinking?

Don't ever go into positivity training Mr Needs

danielneeds · Nov 23, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
So what you're saying is that our 'good' circle was even smaller than I was thinking?

Don't ever go into positivity training Mr Needs

We're doomed, Mr. Mainwaring....

Archibald&Crooks · Nov 23, 2016

Gassin's finest said:
Not in my lifetime, but weren't we actually relegated in the 70's? That must have been some pretty shite football...

It wasn't pretty

But football was 'proper' back then

talkshowhost86 · Nov 23, 2016

The main reason to be upbeat is that we genuinely have the level of players we need to turn this around.

There are some top players at the club and a lot of them were performing well in the not too distant past, suggesting that we should be able to do it again soon.

But in many ways that's what makes our current performances so infuriating. These players are better than this. So why the bejeezus are they playing like a sack of rotting ocelots?

danielneeds · Nov 23, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
The main reason to be upbeat is that we genuinely have the level of players we need to turn this around.

There are some top players at the club and a lot of them were performing well in the not too distant past, suggesting that we should be able to do it again soon.

But in many ways that's what makes our current performances so infuriating. These players are better than this. So why the bejeezus are they playing like a sack of rotting ocelots?

I still think the collapse at the end of last season is having an effect on the squad. We had a fearlessness last season, a youthful strut. Now there are players who look like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders at times.

I'm disappointed as I really thought they would use last season's disappointment as motivation and come back like a pack of mad dogs foaming at the mouth for revenge. But for some reason or another it hasn't happened.

I think what we need is a spark, to set off a chain effect. I guess many of us thought the City game would be just that, but then we had the international break straight after and all the momentum dissipated away.

A big Kane performance, maybe with someone else stepping up to be his wing man, and I think others who are currently looking low on confidence - Eriksen, Alli, Dier, Dembele - and the rest will follow.

Gassin's finest · Nov 23, 2016

We just have to play through it. Every club has this problem. We're still actually doing marginally better than were in the league at this time last season, only a couple of goals down I think. Harry's back, and we'll have Lamela and Toby back soon as well. Also we're lucky to have the best keeper in the world, otherwise it'd be a shit load worse.

Shadydan · Nov 23, 2016

We have players injured, once they get back on the pitch we'll be much better for it.

DIEHARD · Nov 23, 2016

If we got chucked out of the CL but played as if we wanted to be there then fine... The fact is that our players look like they can't be fucked. I think Poch looks like he can't be fucked neither.

The whole body language of our team is not coming across well at all.

I think as fans we can excuse being beaten by better teams as long as we give it a go. We have have played like a bunch of pansies this season and yesterday when our CL campaign was on the line we played like we couldn't wait to get knocked out.

What

The

Fuck

diamond lights · Nov 23, 2016

.

Thing is, in my life (40 odd years) I have never seen us play so consistently badly over so many games......and that's with a team that is meant to be one of the best we've ever had.[/QUOTE]
You're not looking hard enough. There've been plenty of consistent spells when we've been crap. Times when we could only dream of being unbeaten in the League at the end of November.

kungfugrip · Nov 23, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
No, they wouldn't. They don't look at football like us fans do. Give them what they want, they will come.

Seriously? I can't square that one away at all............It's not hard at all to recall the 90's when we really were crap. I suspect your expectaions being let down has more to do with it.

Spurs will make us feel good again, promise*

* I just can't say when

Yep seriously....even back then we were crap we still created good openings in games, had extended periods of good play and had movement off the ball. Our football this year, with very few exceptions, has been so poor to watch. Very strange, given what we saw last year, from largely the same group of players. After all the effort and guile that went into making the Champions league, our performances in it have been incredibly naïve and toothless.

Gb160 · Nov 23, 2016

Fucking hell, i thought this thread would be safe to enter but the angry tears have made their way in here too.
AV fucking B for christ sake.

Bobbins · Nov 23, 2016

You can always guarantee one of these threads when we've thrown a game or three up the shitter :LOL:

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