New Stadium Details And Discussions

DanielCHillier said:

Perhaps it won't be required,if we can just store the pitch under the stands while NFL is being played, they could do the same to avoid freezing during winter.

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Think the undersoil will be part of the pitch that rolls out. It's only pipes that can be disconnected.

Lilbaz said:

Think the undersoil will be part of the pitch that rolls out. It's only pipes that can be disconnected.

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Yeah, it's 3 big 'slabs' of pitch, so each would have its own pipe system and would be connected up to the mains when locked in position.

DanielCHillier said:

Perhaps it won't be required,if we can just store the pitch under the stands while NFL is being played, they could do the same to avoid freezing during winter.

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The pitch still needs light, if we go through a week of a deep freeze the pitch would be dead by the time we rolled it back out.

absolute bobbins said:

The pitch still needs light, if we go through a week of a deep freeze the pitch would be dead by the time we rolled it back out.

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I'm sure there'll be Artificial lights where the grass is kept so that doesn't happen.

NFL continues London drive with four regular-season games in 2017

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-2017?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

DanielCHillier said:

I'm sure there'll be Artificial lights where the grass is kept so that doesn't happen.

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There definitely is. The pitch at present is kept lit most of the time anyway, the cavern it'll be rolled into has massive 'daylights' that will keep the pitch growing/healthy.

UpTownSpur said:

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On the subject of lighting and electricity, as the surface of the roof is so big I would assume that there will be solar panels on it, but does anyone know for sure?

Roynie said:

On the subject of lighting and electricity, as the surface of the roof is so big I would assume that there will be solar panels on it, but does anyone know for sure?

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Certainly nothing that Spurs have detailed so far, either in word or picture form suggests any solar panels, which does seem a shame from an eco perspective. Perhaps it was too big a compromise on design.

One thing which hasn't been made apparent yet is whether we will see the later concepts version of the floodlights. We saw two interior pictures (not sure of the source of the cooler looking variant, but definitely genuine). They just looked so swish as an unbroken ring rather than lights mounted to the roof struts, but none of Spurs' publicity material online includes that picture...

Phischy said:

Certainly nothing that Spurs have detailed so far, either in word or picture form suggests any solar panels, which does seem a shame from an eco perspective. Perhaps it was too big a compromise on design.

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Could be a weight issue.

Phischy said:

Certainly nothing that Spurs have detailed so far, either in word or picture form suggests any solar panels, which does seem a shame from an eco perspective. Perhaps it was too big a compromise on design.

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Not knowing much about the technical aspects of solar panels, does anyone know if they can be made in a silver colour to match the official released impressions? I just would be very surprised if they weren't going to be installed as the cost saving over the years could be quite substantial.

DanielCHillier said:

Could be a weight issue.

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Good point, well presented!

Roynie said:

On the subject of lighting and electricity, as the surface of the roof is so big I would assume that there will be solar panels on it, but does anyone know for sure?

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Wasn't solar panels, or something like that, mentioned at the planning permission meeting and dismissed as not being cost effective and/or safety reasons?

I think I recall that very early in the proposals that it was stated that this stadium was going to be either very efficient or self sufficient in terms of energy. It would be very negligent if this had not been explored properly - to the point of being unrealistic. I am sure that it will have been considered and included somehow - however that ultimate gain is achieved.

I very much doubt that solar panels pose a problem with structural load. [EDIT: apparently the planning submission claimed that they do - see below.] They aren't very massive. The club wants to have a walkway around the roof and the profile of the building, as seen from the distance and from the air, is very important. Solar panels would interfere with both of those.

The training ground development has a Combined Heat and Power unit, which uses renewable fuel to heat the premises and also to generate electricity on site - any excess generation is sold back into the grid. The Cannon Rd affordable housing development (a collaboration between THFC and Newlon Housing Trust) also has a CHP. That would be the obvious option for the stadium.

I am sure that sustainable heating and power was a condition of the planning consent for the stadium, but that doesn't necessarily imply solar panels. There's no way that a development of this size (or even a much smaller development) is going to get planning consent nowadays without having a sustainable energy plan. It's a routine planning condition.

davidmatzdorf said:

I very much doubt that solar panels pose a problem with structural load. They aren't very massive. The club wants to have a walkway around the roof and the profile of the building, as seen from the distance and from the air, is very important. Solar panels would interfere with both of those.

The training ground development has a Combined Heat and Power unit, which uses renewable fuel to heat the premises and also to generate electricity on site - any excess generation is sold back into the grid. The Cannon Rd affordable housing development (a collaboration between THFC and Newlon Housing Trust) also has a CHP. That would be the obvious option for the stadium.

I am sure that sustainable heating and power was a condition of the planning consent for the stadium, but that doesn't necessarily imply solar panels. There's no way that a development of this size (or even a much smaller development) is going to get planning consent nowadays without having a sustainable energy plan. It's a routine planning condition.

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I can't remember the exact figures, but I remember watching and reading the discussions over the planning permission, and that the energy usage off the stadium had been reduced by around 1/3rd compared to that of the Emirates. This was down to advances in technology (LED's etc), better energy creation (CHPs like you say) and also better building techniques.

The cable net roof, while also being a lighter design, is also much simpler in material terms than say arsenals very good looking, but very energy intensive (during construction) roof. The energy and material savings required to build it would be undone by the extra engineering and reinforcing that say solar panels would require.

Combine that as you say with the need for a sleek design etc then you end up with the decision the club have made. I just remember one of the planning officers talking about it and unable to get his head around why the club wouldn't have them on the roof, but there is more to it than just sticking them up there and plugging it in.

Taken from the Planning Energy Clarifications document:

Energy (Green) Assessment
3.19 Section 3.2 of the submitted Energy Strategy summarises the LZC feasibility assessment carried out for the
whole development. Solar PV has been identified as the most suitable technology considering the site as a
whole, however the opportunities in the context of each building are extremely limited for the reasons set out in
section 3.2.1 of the Energy Strategy. A summary of the constraints for solar PV is repeated below:
• Stadium: Roof structure is not suitable for additional loading of Solar PV
• Hotel: Roof areas are required for roof level MEP plant such as heat rejection
• Tottenham Experience: Roof areas are prioritised for public access and green roofs.
• Outline application elements (potential for Solar PV need to be confirmed in detailed design):
o NE building: Roof area is likely to be extensively shaded by the stadium
o Extreme Sports: Roof area is predominantly at a low level; again overshadowed by the surrounding
buildings. The taller roof area of the Sports building is for a climbing wall and will therefore not be
suitable for the installation of solar PV.
3.20 The residential roof areas are more suitable for PV as they are unlikely to be overshadowed by any surrounding
buildings due to their height. At this stage it is estimated that a 250m2 Solar PV array could be incorporated
across the roofs (areas indicated on page 257 of the Design and Access statement). The residential buildings are
only submitted for outline approval at this stage, with matters relating to appearance and landscape reserved for
subsequent approval. It is therefore not reasonable at this stage to fix a detailed design for the roof when
approval is not sought. This element can be controlled by condition.
3.21 The potential for façade-integrated PV is acknowledged, however this type of installation has a significantly
reduced financial payback due to reduced power output and greater capital cost of installation and integration
into the façade structure. Looking at its technical potential in more detail:
• Stadium: The southern facing façade is predominantly overshadowed by the buildings in the southern area
of the site.
• Hotel: The hotel is a narrow building in plan aligned along the N-S axis. As a result it has a very limited
southerly facing façade suitable for façade PV. Panels could be incorporated on the East and West facades
however output would be further reduced compared to optimally orientated roof-level panels further
damaging the financial payback of such a system.
• Tottenham Experience: Low-level building with limited southerly facing facades.
• Outline elements (extreme sports, residential and community health centre): Aesthetic of the buildings not at
detailed design but not considered to have a major potential due to overshadowing of adjacent buildings
and reduced financial payback of such systems. To be confirmed during detailed design.
3.22 The opportunity to utilise thin film technologies within the stadium roof, has been considered and was also
considered not to be a viable option. The table below summarises the results of this study, exploring financial
payback of such a system. Whilst it is less of an impact than traditional PV panels due to a weight reduction, it
would still incur additional roof costs due to extra loading and the reduced efficiency of such systems is a
disadvantage. With significant Feed-in-tariff cuts expected in the next few months, these incentives have not
been considered which further damage the financial payback of the system. For these reasons it is not
considered viable.

If anybody's interested, there's a programme on Discovery Science this morning - Extreme Engineering. This episode is about the Arizona Cardinals new stadium which features a slide out playing surface. No idea whether it has any resemblance to how the new WHL pitch will work but may be interesting

I watch those with my 18 month old son. His first word was "digger".