The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Bus-Conductor · Jan 8, 2018

Trix said:
Of course but my point was not that they shouldn't get a chance in games like this(my personal opinion is that it's the perfect time to do so), but should things go wrong not having one of Son, Eriksen or Dele on the bench would be criticised by some if we were to lose, which was the post I was replying to.

Sure, whatever a manager does is likely to get criticised by someone, wrongly or rightly, and I'm not saying he shouldn't have players like that on the bench as well but, as I'm sure you agree, I wouldn't expect Poch to be worrying about getting criticised when making decisions.

Trix · Jan 8, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
I don't think winning the FA Cup would make a difference at all to any player who wants to move to an uber club. I think qualifying for the CL by finishing 3rd/4th would probably have more impact.

I never said it would be a determining factor just that it would help as far as showing our players that we were progressing was concerned. Lets not forget we are not talking about players like Sanchez at Arsenal(who you referenced) who has already won major trophies elsewhere. As I say for us it's all about the overall project, and winning "the lesser cups" is only a part of that. Not an essential part, and not the projected end result, but it would certainly be another indication that we were moving in the right direction.

Trix · Jan 8, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
Sure, whatever a manager does is likely to get criticised by someone, wrongly or rightly, and I'm not saying he shouldn't have players like that on the bench as well but, as I'm sure you agree, I wouldn't expect Poch to be worrying about getting criticised when making decisions.

Of course.

Lilbaz · Jan 8, 2018

Trix said:
Of course but my point was not that they shouldn't get a chance in games like this(my personal opinion is that it's the perfect time to do so), but should things go wrong not having one of Son, Eriksen or Dele on the bench would be criticised by some if we were to lose, which was the post I was replying to. Fans will criticise a loss more than not playing youth players, and they will look to team selection first and foremost as the reason why in most cases.

Poch will be accused of disregarding the cup competitions and many will jump on levy's back aswell.

IGSpur · Jan 8, 2018

Lilbaz said:
Poch will be accused of disregarding the cup competitions and many will jump on levy's back aswell.

It wouldn't surprise me, but as many have said, how would having one academy player on the bench instead of one of the 4 attacking options be considered disregarding the cup.

Let's say Edwards did start and we were nil nil until 60mins like yesterday, we could have taken him off and brought on Son but sadly more people would complain we risked it, though as BC said there are plenty of times even the first team gave struggled to break down weaker sides

Lilbaz · Jan 8, 2018

IGSpur said:
It wouldn't surprise me, but as many have said, how would having one academy player on the bench instead of one of the 4 attacking options be considered disregarding the cup.

Let's say Edwards did start and we were nil nil until 60mins like yesterday, we could have taken him off and brought on Son but sadly more people would complain we risked it, though as BC said there are plenty of times even the first team gave struggled to break down weaker sides

Never said i'd be one to complain.

Streetspur77 · Jan 8, 2018

I don't think there's anyone on here who'd be against a few young players on the bench, although the right balance has to be struck so you don't end up in an Arsenal position.

But it's not exactly the cardinal sin, we're in the next round and I'm sure poch spent all week seeing if anyone was in a good position to be involved, he doesn't just turn up on Sunday and shit out a team, a lot of thought will have gone into it.

There was some itk saying Edwards was working hard to make the bench again so hopefully he can make it in time for Newport

(Optimistics incoming)

Spurzinho · Jan 8, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
And Arsenal are a perfect example of how winning domestic trophies means absolutely fuck all to players that matter in terms of whether they stay at a club or not. And it won't even keep the manager in a job, or the fans from calling for his head, if results start going pear shaped soon after.

If and when a bigger club comes calling with an offer to treble their wages, the fact that they have just won cup with a club will rarely make any difference. Even winning the league might not. Winning cups doesn't really gloss over the truth about a club. Players and their agents know that if we win an FA Cup we aren't suddenly going to be a bigger club, paying uber wages and challenging seriously for the league and CL. Winning two FA Cups didn't make Sanchez want to stay at Arsenal, winning the league didn't make most of the Monaco team want too stay there another day, it didn't help Leicester keep Kante or stop Mahre from wanting to go, winning the League Cup didn't make Berbatoov think we were worth staying with, didn't stop ManU sacking LVG, and getting to their first cup final in decades, didn't stop VVD wanting to leave Southampton or Puel from getting the sack.

I think any coach that goes chasing cups to appease players or fans is making a rod for his own back.

You're right. Winning cups and players getting winners medals will not erase the possibility of Kane, Alli, Erickesen and their like getting poached by the very big fish. However, not winning cups (whilst simultaniously not winning the league & Champions League) will guarantee that they we seek the exit door. You can never stop the Madrid/Barca/Man City juggernaut but you can improve your chances of our best players not deciding a move to Man Utd or Chelski might be good for them because at least they'll challenge for leagues and CLs all whilst chocking up mountains of cup winners medals.

Winning nothing is not an option, so why pretend that it is?

Bus-Conductor · Jan 8, 2018

Spurzinho said:
You're right. Winning cups and players getting winners medals will not erase the possibility of Kane, Alli, Erickesen and their like getting poached by the very big fish. However, not winning cups (whilst simultaniously not winning the league & Champions League) will guarantee that they we seek the exit door. You can never stop the Madrid/Barca/Man City juggernaut but you can improve your chances of our best players not deciding a move to Man Utd or Chelski might be good for them because at least they'll challenge for leagues and CLs all whilst chocking up mountains of cup winners medals.

Winning nothing is not an option, so why pretend that it is?

I think the pretence is that winning an FA Cup or League Cup would make a blind bit of difference to the vast, and I mean vast, majority of players in terms of staying with a club.

coys200 · Jan 8, 2018

Nkoudou loan to Burnley might give Edwards a chance.

Lilbaz · Jan 9, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
I think the pretence is that winning an FA Cup or League Cup would make a blind bit of difference to the vast, and I mean vast, majority of players in terms of staying with a club.

Think cl and winning a cup would make them want to stay more than just getting cl.

SpursD22 · Jan 9, 2018

Streetspur77 said:
But it's not exactly the cardinal sin, we're in the next round and I'm sure poch spent all week seeing if anyone was in a good position to be involved, he doesn't just turn up on Sunday and shit out a team, a lot of thought will have gone into it.

I don’t know if he did. In his post match press conference he said “They're not machines - 24 players who all work hard to fight for one place in the starting XI.” I take it as the academy players were never in Poch’s mind

Lilbaz · Jan 9, 2018

SpursD22 said:
I don’t know if he did. In his post match press conference he said “They're not machines - 24 players who all work hard to fight for one place in the starting XI.” I take it as the academy players were never in Poch’s mind

Wouldn't they be fighting for 11 places in the starting 11?

St José Dominguez · Jan 9, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
And Arsenal are a perfect example of how winning domestic trophies means absolutely fuck all to players that matter in terms of whether they stay at a club or not. And it won't even keep the manager in a job, or the fans from calling for his head, if results start going pear shaped soon after.

If and when a bigger club comes calling with an offer to treble their wages, the fact that they have just won cup with a club will rarely make any difference. Even winning the league might not. Winning cups doesn't really gloss over the truth about a club. Players and their agents know that if we win an FA Cup we aren't suddenly going to be a bigger club, paying uber wages and challenging seriously for the league and CL. Winning two FA Cups didn't make Sanchez want to stay at Arsenal, winning the league didn't make most of the Monaco team want too stay there another day, it didn't help Leicester keep Kante or stop Mahre from wanting to go, winning the League Cup didn't make Berbatoov think we were worth staying with, didn't stop ManU sacking LVG, and getting to their first cup final in decades, didn't stop VVD wanting to leave Southampton or Puel from getting the sack.

I think any coach that goes chasing cups to appease players or fans is making a rod for his own back.

Us and Arsenal are completely different clubs though. They've won Premier league titles, FA cups, got to CL title and on numerous occasions in the past were fighting for the title. The recent FA cups are just a symbol of the clubs obvious downward trajectory over last ten years in that it was all they could hope for. Those meant nothing to players staying or not as every one can see where the club is going. We on the other hand are meant to be heading in the opposite direction and for us an FA cup (the first in 27 years) could be seen as a symbol of that.

Whether it came to fruition or not I could see players after the high of winning the FA cup at the end of season thinking okay we've now won something with this group, gained that mentality and proven something, let's use this is as a platform and push on and win something bigger.

Let's be honest though we've got to just hope recent crazy transfer fees have made our players too pricey/clubs aren't interested because we'd struggle to stop them joining Madrid/Barca even if we won the league.

IfiHadTheWings · Jan 9, 2018

Winning trophies may not keep all of our players satisfied when the uber clubs come calling but us as fans have seen so little silverware that this idea that it means fuck all to the club is madness...Kane has just come out and put an emphasis on competing and winning trophies...we really do need to get a couple of pots under our belt and get the monkey off our back so to speak.

Bring back the Peace cup I say.

Lemon · Jan 9, 2018

Blake Griffin said:
nah, best not. their mere presence may be enough to cause the first teamers to lose focus.

Many a truth is spoken in jest.

Think you may have a point, in Pochs mind, that perhaps he feels having multiple youngsters gives a subconscious signal to the first team present, that it is a second tier match.

Hadn't thought of that.

Lemon · Jan 9, 2018

coys200 said:
Nkoudou loan to Burnley might give Edwards a chance.

Bang up for that, Dyche and regular playing time (hopefully), will give us a chance to see if regular time will elevate his performances.

Bus-Conductor · Jan 9, 2018

St José Dominguez said:
Us and Arsenal are completely different clubs though. They've won Premier league titles, FA cups, got to CL title and on numerous occasions in the past were fighting for the title. The recent FA cups are just a symbol of the clubs obvious downward trajectory over last ten years in that it was all they could hope for. Those meant nothing to players staying or not as every one can see where the club is going. We on the other hand are meant to be heading in the opposite direction and for us an FA cup (the first in 27 years) could be seen as a symbol of that.

Whether it came to fruition or not I could see players after the high of winning the FA cup at the end of season thinking okay we've now won something with this group, gained that mentality and proven something, let's use this is as a platform and push on and win something bigger.

Let's be honest though we've got to just hope recent crazy transfer fees have made our players too pricey/clubs aren't interested because we'd struggle to stop them joining Madrid/Barca even if we won the league.

That’s the point isn’t it, if players want to go, they go, whether we win a cup or not. They don’t think “I’ve just won the FA cup, I’ll turn Madrid, quadruple wages and the chance to win leagues and the CL every year down.

We were fighting for the title the last two years, this year we’ll be lucky to get top 4 and winning an FA cup won’t disguise that.

BujuBanton · Jan 9, 2018

Im all for giving kids a chance, but the Newport game is going to be physical, and on a shoddy pitch. Hardly ideal for the first team let alone some untested yoot.

coys200 · Jan 9, 2018

Wonder if Nkoudou loan might mean josh coming back.

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