Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

TottenhamLegend · May 3, 2018

Every bloody time I see new posts in thread, I come to take a look it's some fooker still discussing the qualifying rules if Liverpool and Chelsea win the CL/EL.

How many times can one question be asked (and answered!) :ROFLMAO:

Anyway...

I think we'll drop points this weekend, and I also think Chelsea will beat Liverpool, making us a little nervous, but we'll get the job done against Newcastle and Leicester and secure third.

Roynie · May 3, 2018

Just to get this thread back on subject, we are 5 points ahead of Chelsea having played the same number of games. We are 1 point behind Liverpool having played 1 game less. We're not fighting Chelsea for 4th, we're fighting Liverpool for 3rd.

thePessimist · May 3, 2018

Roynie said:
Just to get this thread back on subject, we are 5 points ahead of Chelsea having played the same number of games. We are 1 point behind Liverpool having played 1 game less. We're not fighting Chelsea for 4th, we're fighting Liverpool for 3rd.

Let's just wait and see over the weekend. We'll know a lot more after a difficult game against wba

SugarRay · May 3, 2018

rossdapep said:
The 'actual' football?? Or am I being naive in that people still actually care about that anymore?

The 90 minutes is the sweet release from the rest of the bullshit that surrounds the game!

Football is such a great game that a simple 90 minutes of it almost justifies the nonsense drama that surrounds the game at the top level.

SugarRay · May 3, 2018

Roynie said:
Just to get this thread back on subject, we are 5 points ahead of Chelsea having played the same number of games. We are 1 point behind Liverpool having played 1 game less. We're not fighting Chelsea for 4th, we're fighting Liverpool for 3rd.

We are gonna win that fight I believe

SugarRay · May 3, 2018

olliec said:
Not going to be easy against West Brom. We could send them down with a win or draw so they are going to be fighting for their lives.

Hopefully we match their desire.

shelfboy68 · May 3, 2018

SugarRay said:
Hopefully we match their desire.

We certainly need to have more desire and attitude than we had on Monday night as i thought we got away with it a bit, the midfield was poor in possession and did not track any runners we will need to put in a shift better than that.

Roynie · May 3, 2018

shelfboy68 said:
We certainly need to have more desire and attitude than we had on Monday night as i thought we got away with it a bit, the midfield was poor in possession and did not track any runners we will need to put in a shift better than that.

True, but starting Dier and Dembele as DMs is hampering the attacking effort. Dembele is very good on the ball but doesn't pass it forward quickly enough, he is better running with it, but it's not quick enough IMHO.

shelfboy68 · May 3, 2018

Roynie said:
True, but starting Dier and Dembele as DMs is hampering the attacking effort. Dembele is very good on the ball but doesn't pass it forward quickly enough, he is better running with it, but it's not quick enough IMHO.

Would like to think that situation will get sorted during the summer hopefully.

Roynie · May 3, 2018

shelfboy68 said:
Would like to think that situation will get sorted during the summer hopefully.

Well if Winks gets fit again we already have just such a player!

dannythomas · May 3, 2018

dannythomas said:
Very unlikely . We would have to get minimum 2 , maximum 3 points from our 3 games, Liverpool lose both their games and Chelsea win all their last 3. And Arsenal would have to win the Europa and Liverpool the CL. . If just 1 of those things doesn’t happen then that scenario can’t happen either. I would like to know the bookmakers odds of such a combination. It’s in fact statistically much less likely than us finishing 5 th .

Well, it took just 90 minutes in Madrid to put paid to that scenario.

Lighty64 · May 3, 2018

well thank fuck for that, now whatever happens the top 4 go in the CL, and we only get a 5th spot if Liverpool drop to 5th spot and win the CL.

and before anyone asks every team that does go into the CL will go straight into the group stages.

now my house needs to be sold thanks to the poster that told us Liverpool and Arsenal will definitely win the euro comps, I now hope we beat WBA who usually frustrate us by wasting time and parking a bus (unless they take the lead), but won't on Saturday, just like they won't water the pitch at halftime, but will leave themselves open, so if we get the 1st then we could seen a goals fest. as the bet is over I now hope for a win and the Chelsea v Poll match to be a draw

dagraham · May 3, 2018

worcestersauce said:
They talk about United.

This is absolutely true. Have a Man City fan at work ( an old school fan actually from Manchester, not a plastic) and most conversations we have about football it isn’t long before Utd are brought up

.

EQP · May 3, 2018

Lighty64 said:
well thank fuck for that, now whatever happens the top 4 go in the CL, and we only get a 5th spot if Liverpool drop to 5th spot and win the CL.

and before anyone asks every team that does go into the CL will go straight into the group stages.

now my house needs to be sold thanks to the poster that told us Liverpool and Arsenal will definitely win the euro comps, I now hope we beat WBA who usually frustrate us by wasting time and parking a bus (unless they take the lead), but won't on Saturday, just like they won't water the pitch at halftime, but will leave themselves open, so if we get the 1st then we could seen a goals fest. as the bet is over I now hope for a win and the Chelsea v Poll match to be a draw

WBA need to win so they'll have to do their best to score. I can see them pressing us and forcing us into errors. We'll end up scoring first, which will force them to take more attacking measures.

LexingtonSpurs · May 3, 2018

EmperorKabir said:
EDIT: MY POST HAS BEEN CORRECTED BY OTHERS IN THE POSTS AFTER THIS. BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW IT USED TO WORK IN YEARS PRIOR TO THIS.... THEN READ THIS POST LOL

Sorry, this is completely incorrect to my knowledge. I keep seeing misunderstandings on this forum, but to be honest, I don't blame anyone as the ruling is so ridiculous that it's understandable that people think... surely this isn't right.

The ruling is ridiculous but it is as follows:

When Liverpool won in Istanbul but came 5th in the domestic league, they did that dodgy match with TNS to get back into the champions league for the next year as TNS put their champions league qualification status on the line against them as it would make them more money than playing qualifiers nobody would watch and they'd get knocked out of anyway. UEFA allowed it on that occasion but didn't like the idea of 5 teams from one nation going through, (and they seem to hate England anyway or at least did so more back then).

The ruling was changed for the season after this Liverpool/TNS stuff and became that if a CL winner finished outside the league awarded CL spots, then the last placed spot loses it (which happened to us when Chelsea won it). That team who loses the CL spot then gets the top Europa league spot instead (and the bottom placed league awarded spot for EL side gets no european football at all.)

At the time, winning the UEFA cup didn't qualify you for the CL, so it was unlinked to how spots were awarded. Winning the UEFA cup simply got you back into the UEFA cup again the next year.

Then the UEFA cup became the Europa league where the winners get a champions league spot, and this spot is an extra spot and in the case of England, a 5th spot if necessary. This spot is unlinked to the league awarded spots for European football. Stupidly, UEFA did nothing to address the original rule adjustment after Liverpool's TNS business.

So in short, a champions league winner finishing outside of the domestic league's CL positions will go into the CL again at the expense of the bottom placed CL awarded team who will get the EL instead, (again, at the expense of the bottom ranked EL awarded team who will get no european football). But a Europa league winner will get awarded a place in the following CL, with absolutely no messing around with the league whatsoever. Ridiculous! But that's how our wonderful lords and masters at UEFA have done this.

So we therefore have a ridiculous situation where perhaps this could happen:

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL winners)
6 Arsenal (EL winners)

in this example, Chelsea get a europa league spot, the other 5 go into the CL.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Liverpool (CL winners/losers, it doesn't matter)
5 Chelsea
6 (or lower) Arsenal (EL winners)

top 4 and Arsenal go into the CL. Chelsea will go Europa

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 (or lower) Arsenal (EL winners)

the top 4 and arsenal go into the CL. Liverpool get Europa.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 Arsenal (EL losers)

top 4 get CL, and Liverpool and arsenal get europa league.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL winners)
6 Arsenal (EL losers)

the top 3 and liverpool go into the CL. Chelsea and Arsenal get Europa.

What is so ridiculous is that the Europa league has more flexibility and merit in terms of awarding the extra spot to the winner's domestic league than the champion's league. In conclusion, I hate Liverpool. and Chelsea.

happy to discuss this further but there's so much confusion about this that I thought it might be worth hammering it out as clearly as possible and referring back to a finalised post so that everyone can follow. I'm 99% sure I'm correct on this, but more than happy to edit based on anything I might be wrong about to ensure that everyone has the correct information.

edit: It's a little bit secondary but also be aware that complexities can occur with the awarding of Europa league spots. Most leagues offer their top number of the teams in the league the CL and the positions after that the Europa league. So for example, country ABC has 4 CL spots and 3 EL spots. Their FA decides to award the top 4 the CL and 5-7 the EL. Note that in England, we only award 5th the EL and we award the other 2 spots to the winners of the league cup and the FA cup. To make it even more complicated, we have messed about over the years with the question of 'what happens if the winner of the cup already has europe next season?' and we have sometimes given that to the cup final loser, and sometimes we have reverted it back to the league, allowing the 6th and sometimes 7th spot to get EL football as well. This happens a lot given that most cup winners already have been awarded European football through finishing in the top 5 (or 6 or 7) at the end of the season.

Wow - you sure put in a lot of work for nothing!

coys200 · May 3, 2018

Never forget SC managed 100 pages on the most ridiculous scenario that’s was never gonna happen. ?

shelfboy68 · May 4, 2018

Roynie said:
Well if Winks gets fit again we already have just such a player!

Not sure that he is "the player" we are looking for but certainly would welcome a fit winks back into the squad.

dontcallme · May 4, 2018

So if Atletico win the EL, Liverpool win the CL and we finish 4th will we get CL?

Yid-ol · May 4, 2018

dontcallme said:
So if Atletico win the EL, Liverpool win the CL and we finish 4th will we get CL?

Nope, west Brom do :cautious:

dontcallme · May 4, 2018

Yid-ol said:
Nope, west Brom do

And Darren Moore still won’t get the job.

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