The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Sweetsman said:

Perhaps, we're reading too much into stuff, because we are afraid of leaving him. The dispassionate view is that we are starting to click into gear. Poch is frustrated at the lack of breaks: the stadium build is a metaphor for what's been happening, in that we are just about there, except for unexpected issues. Another way of looking at it is that it has been built very quickly for a project that big and that what is happening shouldn't be a surprise as a result. Journalists, including people close to Pochettino like Balague, report on immediate feelings on the whole.

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It's a hot take society now.

I guess come the end of the January transfer window we'll have most of the answers we may want or not want.

spursfan77 said:

It’s levy who is the problem though, it’s joe lewis. He doesn’t want to put his own money in. His art collection is more important to him than we are.

Losing Poch would be awful. Thankfully that article in the Sun is written by Neil Ashton who we know is a shit stirrer.

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There is no top level CL club where an indiviudual funds the club. It just doesn’t happen anymore. City and PSG are funded by countries, and even then they are moving to self-sufficiency now. FSG don’t put any of their money into Liverpool. Perez doesn’t put a penny into Real. Juve’s owners don’t put money into the club. Even Roman doesn’t fund Chelsea anymore.

This Joe Lewis thing is bunkem really. Chances are 99.9% that any owner that we have in the future won’t put their own money into the club too.

danielneeds said:

There is no top level CL club where an indiviudual funds the club. It just doesn’t happen anymore. City and PSG are funded by countries, and even then they are moving to self-sufficiency now. FSG don’t put any of their money into Liverpool. Perez doesn’t put a penny into Real. Juve’s owners don’t put money into the club. Even Roman doesn’t fund Chelsea anymore.

This Joe Lewis thing is bunkem really. Chances are 99.9% that any owner that we have in the future won’t put their own money into the club too.

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I agree, I was just stating really that everyone blames Levy but its Lewis who ultimately holds the purse strings.

He's the one who pushed for poch too over Levy's choices (if ITK at the time of appointment is to be believed) so you'd think if he was that interested he would offer to put some cash in via ENIC.

nickspurs said:

Undoubtedly a good coach and a high ceiling but his ability to attract the better players is one gap for me.

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But levy isn't worried about that is he the policy is cheap young players the more unknown the better then sell for big dollar that is the company policy.

thfc1973 said:

I'm pretty certain Poch will be at Madrid next. Makes more sense than Conte. Poch is a Madrid fan as opposed to other big clubs wanting his sig. He speaks the lingo. Has a good crop of younger players to work with and will get the money and choice of players to buy. Personally, I am hoping Madrid comes in for him and makes Levy an offer he cant refuse. That way, it saves Levy from dealing with any bad press when Poch's management inevitably goes tits up and Levy has to give him the chop, or fans start to turn on Poch. Its a win-win. If I were a gambler I would bet money on him being at Madrid next. Its also a more guaranteed place to get success for Poch cos I doubt he will win anything if he went to Utd either.

If we're lucky Levy will extract a vast sum and possibly a good player too..

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Why the anti-Poch stance? He has worked wonders for this club and often with one hand tied behind his back. Levy hasn't backed him at all and has been extremely lucky that Poch has delivered what he has in such a short space of time. He is ahead of schedule. Poch is not perfect by any means but to suggest we are better without him is delusional. We are a feared team amongst all of Europe - that is Poch's doing and all achieved with zero net spend over the last 4 years. Tell me who could have done better without anything to spend? Let's get real people, things are not right at the club it is clear to see but is Poch really the problem?

shelfboy68 said:

But levy isn't worried about that is he the policy is cheap young players the more unknown the better then sell for big dollar that is the company policy.

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It used to be that way, we don't even do that anymore.

Lighty64 said:

Sorry I know we have conceded to many goals from set pieces this season, but it doesn’t matter how you set up against them, if the delivery is good enough an attacking team will always have a chance. Against PSV we were a man light, a keeper that doesn’t give you much confidence, but if you can’t head the ball away from the danger area, you can’t blame Poch, it wasn’t his headed clearance.

One of our biggest weaknesses at set pieces is we don’t have a big bad ball winner in the likes of Gough, someone that when the head it clear, it goes clear. Toby, Jan, Sanchez and even Dier don’t dominate the area like a true CH.

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Of course there are two teams on the pitch, and it's inevitable that there will be times you concede from them sometimes, I think it's been a weakness throughout all five Poch seasons and to say there is nothing he/coaching staff can be doing to get us more organised at defending them is to just brush over it and say they don't matter.

Everything we do with them just doesn't look great, from what I watch - and some of that has to fall under what we're doing in preparation on the training ground. We hold this extremely high line at freekicks, ok I understand the thinking behind it, but it just ends up with our players backpedalling towards our own goal and that is always a struggle to then clear and doesn't exactly look very convincing at the best of times. We often see players left unmarked. Or coming in completely untracked. Our players not jumping and competing for the ball. Or a cluster of our guys all caught in the same area and the ball landing in a different one to an opposition player. Second (and third) balls require a bit of luck in where they drop, but we've seen a few goals now where opposition are getting on the end of them and our players are nowhere to be seen (more on this in a minute). Several things that don't look at all convincing, and keep repeating themselves.

There have been three or four goals now that have been carbon copy. Ball is only cleared to the edge of the box, opposition player picks it with no one in the same postcode as him, ball eventually (directly or with help) finds its way into the back of the net. And a couple of these goals now have fucked us quite badly. If Wednesday night wasn't bad enough, then cast your minds back two seasons to the FA Cup semi final. 2-2 vs. Chelsea, got ourselves back in the game and look the stronger team, concede a goal exactly like that to Hazard. Unmarked edge of the box. I complained about this soft goal at the time, I remember people doing what you say now - "there's no way you can set up for that and defend it" etc etc. - didn't agree then, see goals still being conceded in that fashion I rest my case. It's not good enough.

As I gave example in the match thread, a minute after the PSV goal we got a freekick and almost the same thing happened. Ball in, not cleared, drops edge of the box towards Eriksen....... However PSV are marking properly, have not just one, but two men stationed for the ball dropping edge of the box, and so clear their lines. If other teams can do it........

People might read this (or look at the length of the reply, and not...) and say I'm nitpicking and delving too deep into it all, but it's not hard to get organised at set pieces and, whilst you will always at times fall victim to individual errors, is something that is a great deal within our control. It might be a small part of the game, but it is often a fairly crucial one and we continue to look really lacking in this area. It's all part of the marginal gains that go towards improving as a team, and where I think Poch, or any manager, really earns their pay packets. It requires improvement.

mpickard2087 said:

However PSV are marking properly, have not just one, but two men stationed for the ball dropping edge of the box, and so clear their lines. If other teams can do it........

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How many goals are conceded like that by teams who station one or two bodies at the edge of the area as opposed to those who don't? What I mean is, those one or two men might be elsewhere and save a goal by other means, so then the complaint becomes that there should be a man here or there doing this or that.......... there are only so many men, a bit like having a man on the posts, you do it or you don't. So less goals the way you're complaining about but that opens another door.

Personally, I'd always have one there though, it's even drilled into you in amateur football, or it was back in my day

Archibald&Crooks said:

How many goals are conceded like that by teams who station one or two bodies at the edge of the area as opposed to those who don't? What I mean is, those one or two men might be elsewhere and save a goal by other means, so then the complaint becomes that there should be a man here or there doing this or that.......... there are only so many men, a bit like having a man on the posts, you do it or you don't. So less goals the way you're complaining about but that opens another door.

Personally, I'd always have one there though, it's even drilled into you in amateur football, or it was back in my day

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For me, always, as probabilities go it's one of the highest chances of where the ball will go next. And fucking especially if the opposition has a player stood in the vicinity waiting for the second ball, you go and mark him (especially, as per my example, it's someone like Eden Hazard....).

It is something you learn at amateur/kids level. Obviously somewhere along the way to Tottenham first team level it's got lost......

shelfboy68 said:

But levy isn't worried about that is he the policy is cheap young players the more unknown the better then sell for big dollar that is the company policy.

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Wow. What a spurious link to my comment in order to support your hard-wired views. I think that view is better housed in the Levy/ENIC threads.

Trix said:

I have been championing Eddie Howe as Pochs eventual successor for the last couple seasons.

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I just pray we don't do what we've often done historically and go get Southampton's manager

hellava_tough said:

Although you could argue that he's never been in a position to attract 'the better players', due to the size of club that he's managed at.

To be honest, I don't really know a lot about Eddie Howe except for the fact that he's held in high regard by many. Sounds like he could be an interesting choice.

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I take your point and we just don’t know but what I was trying to articulate (poorly) was that I question whether he’d be ‘value-add’ to us. Purely illustratively, would player X choose to play for Klopp at Tottenham for the same wages or Howe? I.e everything else is the same, London club, top 4ish, current owners/investment etc.

hakano said:

Why the anti-Poch stance? He has worked wonders for this club and often with one hand tied behind his back. Levy hasn't backed him at all and has been extremely lucky that Poch has delivered what he has in such a short space of time. He is ahead of schedule. Poch is not perfect by any means but to suggest we are better without him is delusional. We are a feared team amongst all of Europe - that is Poch's doing and all achieved with zero net spend over the last 4 years. Tell me who could have done better without anything to spend? Let's get real people, things are not right at the club it is clear to see but is Poch really the problem?

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I'm very pro Poch. he has his failings, but then, all managers do. He just seems really hacked off and if he does walk. it's in our interests to get the best possible deal out of a bad situation. I would, however, take issue with the "feared amongst all of Europe" statement. Given how we have been performing for some time, the Inter, PSV, Barca games with the fatal few minutes against Juve last season, I don't see how you can argue that. Respected maybe, feared, no.

Sweetsman said:

I doubt he rates that league

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played there, loves that team --- our Poch has a sentimental side as well so it seems like a possibility to me - hope he doesn't leave of course but less worried by Utd and Madrid than some and more concerned with PSG

danielneeds said:

There is no top level CL club where an indiviudual funds the club. It just doesn’t happen anymore. City and PSG are funded by countries, and even then they are moving to self-sufficiency now. FSG don’t put any of their money into Liverpool. Perez doesn’t put a penny into Real. Juve’s owners don’t put money into the club. Even Roman doesn’t fund Chelsea anymore.

This Joe Lewis thing is bunkem really. Chances are 99.9% that any owner that we have in the future won’t put their own money into the club too.

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don't really agree with that:
City and PSG are under written largely by state funded sponsors and those two, along with Chelsea, benefit from over investment in player stock by their wealthy backers.

archiewasking said:

I'm very pro Poch. he has his failings, but then, all managers do. He just seems really hacked off and if he does walk. it's in our interests to get the best possible deal out of a bad situation. I would, however, take issue with the "feared amongst all of Europe" statement. Given how we have been performing for some time, the Inter, PSV, Barca games with the fatal few minutes against Juve last season, I don't see how you can argue that. Respected maybe, feared, no.

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You take this season as isolation in Europe however last season we were very much the talk of town in the CL. We beat the eventual winners comfortably at home and gave them as good as we got in the away match. Against Juve we were comfortably the better side over the two matches and 5 mins of madness and we were out. I am not for one minute suggesting that we were the top team in Europe but having watched a number of those matches with Madrid and Juve fans I can assure you that they feared us. You don't get much bigger than those two. This season is a different story and I don't blame Poch for that.

I'm starting to think Levy is quite happy for up and coming managers to come here for a few years and essentially use us as a stepping stone to one of the top jobs - if they prove themselves with us, of course we've benefited as a Club in the interim.

Let them go and look for the next one...

Sad if true as we'll never build that true dynasty if that's the case.

Mr Pink said:

I'm starting to think Levy is quite happy for up and coming managers to come here for a few years and essentially use us as a stepping stone to one of the top jobs - if they prove themselves with us, of course we've benefited as a Club in the interim.

Let them go and look for the next one...

Sad if true as we'll never build that true dynasty if that's the case.

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Yes, especially if he can extract a decent sum as compensation.

thfc1973 said:

- Best Academy players coming through for the last few years

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nickspurs said:

Wow. What a spurious link to my comment in order to support your hard-wired views. I think that view is better housed in the Levy/ENIC threads.

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Not a hard wired view at all all the evidence suggest we buy low then polish them up and off they go to clubs that can win things, it's certainly not illegal and it's enics perogative but to suggest it isn't the case is even more hard wired imo.