Our fans mentality

tiger666 said:

I'd rather we try to do what Poch wants, rather than what you want.

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Seems like Poch wants his targets same as me. Unless he looks happy to you ??

Rome wasn’t built in a day (or maybe it was because there weren’t any wealthy Arab sheikhs or Russian oligarchs in those days ?).

Poch has already overachieved in his first chapter at the club. He’s now onto his next 5-year project. Let’s be patient and give him time.

ebzrascal said:

New players in the positions we need to improve, who have quality, desire and want to play for us. At this moment I say get Lo Celso and Bruno Fernandez(we need to find 25 more goals if we want to challenge), sell Eriksen, keep Rose add a right back if possible. Probably sell/loan Wanyama,Lamela(both injury prone) and Nkoudou probably too late now to do what's needed

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If we did this we'd only have 19 players registered.

Khilari said:

Spurs fans have a reputation as moaners who feel entitled to good football and success on the back of incredible football 60 years ago and some teams who played well.

Barring the odd season, my whole life we have been a mid-table / top 10 side with the odd relegation scrap, cup win and stunning solo goal.

Now, for the last 10 years we've been on an upward trajectory (since Martin Jol took over) to what was the greatest moment of our recent history in beating Ajax and reaching the CL final. We won nothing and yet, from my perspective I could not believe we got there because this type of thing did not happen to the club I supported. I was used to being "Daniel Amokachi'd", or "Frederic Piquionne'd" (that Pompey striker who knocked us out of the FA Cup SF in extra time when Daws slipped). THAT was all I knew.

So whilst it's great that there's been a mentality shift to wanting and demanding more, because it underlines how much better we've become - just cos you want it, ain't gonna make it happen.

[And then I watch "Sunderland Till I Die" on Netflix and feel content that all is good at Spurs.]

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ardiles said:

Rome wasn’t built in a day (or maybe it was because there weren’t any wealthy Arab sheikhs or Russian oligarchs in those days ?).

Poch has already overachieved in his first chapter at the club. He’s now onto his next 5-year project. Let’s be patient and give him time.

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This isn’t about Poch. He’s the best manager we’ve had in recent times. It’s about the mentality of the club which poch has alluded to.

Acceptance of mediocrity? We've finished top 4 last 4 seasons (top 6 last 10 seasons) in the Premier league and were runner-up in the Champions league last season. Is that mediocre? Plus we have one of the best stadiums and training centers in the world of football. All this without some sugar daddy pumping insane amount of money in the club. So IMO today's Spurs is far from mediocrity, on and off the pitch. Of course I and everybody else are disappointed that we haven't won anything since 2008. And of course we want to win trophies. And we will. But the trophies are not why I support and follow Spurs. Trophies are the icing on the great Spurs cake.

Deli alley 61 said:

Going to be a tad controversial with my first post. But am keen to gauge whether I am in the minority of spurs fans?

In my opinion the attitudes of a lot of our fans need to change, there seems to be an acceptance of mediocrity from a large number. I am getting a bit fed up with some supporters for example being just happy that we got to the champions league final. Sure, it was an achievement no one denies that but at the end of the day in a few years no one (apart from spurs fans) will remember the losing finalists, we are now in the same bracket as the likes of Bayer Leverkusen, Monaco, and Valencia as losing finalists. It’s nothing to be proud of in my opinion and only winning counts. Spurs fans should have been more annoyed with the performance that night. Liverpool were poor and certainly were there for the taking, but unfortunately like most of our fans the players seemed to be happy with just being there.
It is now 11 years without a trophy the longest period of non success since 1950. This isn’t good enough for me. Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool, city, United, Portsmouth, and Wigan have all won a trophy since our last and we have lost what 8? FA Cup Semi Finals on the spin? That is not good enough for a club of our stature, yet the "pressure" doesn't seem to be the same as other big clubs in my view.
We have the most expensive ticket prices in the world, we have a magnificent brand new stadium, and some world class players, however there are glaring holes in the squad, namely fullbacks and backups to key players like Kane & Eriksen (If he stays, which is a separate conversation). So far for me the transfer window has been a disappointment. The signing of Ndombele looks a great one, but it was 6 months too late! We needed him as a replacement for Dembele.
We lost 20 games last season and our squad proved to be not good enough as we barely scraped Top 4. We need new players, it's as simple as that. Our squad was depleted last year, and we've lost Trippier, Vorm & Llorente meaning we're currently weaker in terms of numbers. If we don't sign anybody else, it'll be a disaster given the stadium is finished, we announced record profits last year, made nearly £100 million from the Champions league alone and also recently announced our biggest ever kit deal with AIA.

But come on spurs fans we need to demand more, put more pressure on the owners. We aren’t some small plucky club that is performing miracles. We are a huge club, huge support, and all the parts in place to be a huge European force. Start acting like it! Demand more from your club. All this happy to be there rubbish needs to stop, Watching the parade in Liverpool made me sick, and I was desperate to experience it as a Spurs fan with my kids. The last time our great club with such a rich history had a parade was nearly 30 years ago!

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If last September I told you we would make the champions League final, would you have believed me?

Something to consider - we all see the way player prices and wages are going up but we seem to put this at the feet of the players for some reason when that's not true at all. Clubs offer these enormous wages and pay such massive fees as much to deny other teams than to bolster their own squad.

I'm not talking about directly doing that by buying a player who another team wanted, even if they don't fit in your squad (Unless you're Chelsea), it works because hiking one player's value means the average goes up and then other similarly skilled (or potentially skilled) players value goes up by default. Now, the club that were eyeing that £10m midfielder has to shell out more because one of his team mates went for £20m, simply because another club had the funds available and it made the deal happen quicker. I would guestimate that at least 20% of player value nowadays is to grease wheels - there is no way on earth that Harry Maguire is "worth" £80m. NO WAY ON EARTH, but to get that deal over the line that's what United are apparently prepared to pay.

Two years ago, Liverpool signed VVD for about £70m. Are you trying to tell me that Maguire is £10m better than VVD? Even with inflation? Imo, Maguire is a £30-40m player, maximum, but because of other factors he's going to cost them almost double that.

Clubs are doing this, they are playing chicken with each other to see who backs down first. It appears that, this window at least, it's the Woolwich who have folded early in the hand while we're still in with United, while 'pool and Citeh are watching from the bar but until clubs start taking responsibility for these huge, huge spends and the effect that has on the rest of the market, clubs are just going to have to spend more and more. It's half the reason I hope the Bale situation blows up and FIFA/UEFA get involved because it's the perfect example of a club investing a shit-load into a transfer and contract and it's lead to a Reservoir Dogs style stand off between Perez, Zizou and Bale, which can't go on indefinitely.

I love it when people say we should demand more as a fan base, like if we all close our eyes and wish hard enough we'll manifest a trophy.

Not too long ago we were competing with Everton, Newcastle and Villa, now we're competing with the elite of world football but that isn't good enough for some of you. Guess what? We aren't the only team not to win a trophy in while and it isn't our god given right to win one, what we can do is continue to do good business off and on the pitch and wait our turn.

Deli alley 61 said:

This isn’t about Poch. He’s the best manager we’ve had in recent times. It’s about the mentality of the club which poch has alluded to.

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He did. And then decided to stay based upon the “mentality” he agreed to continue to work with after the CL final.

tooey said:

I love it when people say we should demand more as a fan base, like if we all close our eyes and wish hard enough we'll manifest a trophy.

Not too long ago we were competing with Everton, Newcastle and Villa, now we're competing with the elite of world football but that isn't good enough for some of you. Guess what? We aren't the only team not to win a trophy in while and it isn't our god given right to win one, what we can do is continue to do good business off and on the pitch and wait our turn.

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We’re the only team out of the other “top 6” who are our rivals and have been for nearly 10 years now.

I'm 55 years old. I cheered when Ramon Vega, Gary Doherty, and worse were on the pitch. I'm sure as hell not going to bitch about Vertonghen, Toby, and better.

And guess what … we didn't transition from the former to the latter because the fans 'demanded' it. It happened because when Mr. D. Levy took over running the club, he did so with a commitment to make Spurs as competitive as he possibly could. Does one really think that a more proactively shitty fanbase is gonna make him think, "that's it - no more fannying about from me. Time to get serious!"

C'mon.

Can I point out that despite falling short at the last hurdle, we've been pretty much elite for a while now... Consistent top 4, CL football for the best part of a decade now.

People are too hung up on the trophy. In our entire history we've had, what... Two 4/5 year spells where we won stuff?

BENNO said:

This is it in a nutshell for me, it's the times we live in when everyone (well not me, i'm 50, but younger fans) are stuck in this horrible bubble where their whole time is spent either mocking/gloating or being mocked. So they have these completely unrealistic expectations so that they can be the ones doing the gloating/mocking. It's stirred up by Talksport and Sky of course, and newspapers even quote what fans are tweeting these days. Utterly poisonous and completely destroys just about everything good about being a fan and loving a football club. In my last year as a season ticket holder i crashed my car on the way home from WHL due to getting in a race with another vehicle, basically cos i was wound up that we'd lost and that i was being told how shit my team was by Adrian Durham. Absolutely ridiculous, so i stopped listening to talksport, avoided any Sky Sports guff regarding Spurs and swerved Twitter - and my life not only got a whole lot calmer but my enjoyment of Spurs improved markedly.

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the thing is before talksport, twitter, internet, sky and mobile phones the only banter was at school or down the local. also football was also on a more level playing field. since the change of finances involved in football leagues are pretty much dominated by the same teams.

England: Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal with a mixture of teams involved Newcastle, Leeds, A Villa, and Blackburn, then Chelsea started to get involved and ivet just become the same 4 most seasons especially once Abramovic got involved. look whats happened to those that over did it and have fallen away. only Newcastle have bounced back quickly but become a yoyo team.

Scotland: Celtic and Rangers

Spain: Barca, RM, and Atleti

France: before the PSG take over I'm not sure if there was a dominant team, but now days PSG have the league sown up with plenty of games to spare.

Italy: mainly Juventus, AC, and Inter. I know AC and Inter have had massive probs and it's usually Juventus at the end

I'm sure many other leagues suffer the same. the intro and carrot of the CL has caused a lot of teams around Europe to suffer in the end. the impact the PL and CL has had in England has seen teams through out the whole of England to suffer, whether it's a team over spending in League 2 to get to the next rung.

the trouble with today is you get a team like City, that has employed a manager like Pep that rarely knows what it's like to finish 2nd, and knows how to get better out of the top players. how to catch them up I really don't know. Liverpool caught them up last season, but was still adrift when it mattered. Had City beat us in the CL I honestly believe they would of won the quad. so Liverpool finished 2nd, got all that money from winning the CL and who have they bought to strengthen to try and gain that 1 extra win? no one, and to be honest if they looked at the season had VAR been involved how close would they of finished.

So how much do you spend every season to catch City? the truth is there isn't 1. I know we won't, but if Uncle Joe said ok lets try for a season or 3 by throwing money at it, there still isn't a guarantee. the only guarantee that there would be is our squad depth might go through to 20 players, but we would have an astronomical large wage bill, and be in major debt to uncle Joe, well and Levy too, because he would have to match Lewis so he never lost his stake in the club.

The thing is we have got where we are without going mad, and their 1st 8 years we always had a net spend, at a time when fees where a lot lower, even though Chelsea where spending massive on 1st team and academy. had FFP been in place before Abramovic took over, or football was the same before PL & CL, him and the Sheik would of never got involved in football. Nor would so many teams would of hit totally rock bottom, and there are many.

wanting ambition is great, we all want it, but getting it however you feel will never be easy to do. it took Man C a billion to win their 1st trophy

Deli alley 61 said:

This isn’t about Poch. He’s the best manager we’ve had in recent times. It’s about the mentality of the club which poch has alluded to.

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Seriously mate, give it a minute. 3-5 year years is not a long time in football years. We haven't even been in our new stadium for 5 minutes yet and you're complaining about the mentality of the club. You litteraly sound like pretty much every arsenal fan I have ever met.

We go into games against madrid, juve, byern these days half expecting a result. We think we will finish above utd and arsenal in the league.
Not just that other fans think the same.

I’m hoping we dial it back a bit. All this raised expectation malarkey is really making it difficult to enjoy being a Spurs fan. Can’t believe some people want to actually win stuff. What’s that all about? Life was simpler finishing 14th. You knew where you stood.

ebzrascal said:

Seems like Poch wants his targets same as me. Unless he looks happy to you ??

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I haven't seen anyone link us with a RB. might change because Poch wanted to try Foyth.

Id just like to drop this in here.......

Are we in a much worse state with regards to the stadium financing than first thought? Talk of approx 50m per year pay back perhaps not as close to the truth as first thought? Or do the owners what to pay it off sooner in order to profit for themselves sooner with no debt after building the infrastructure up to the standards they have?
These are all questions in my mind. We have 1 week of the transfer window left and despite getting in tanguy we are far far below where we should be as far as being readily available to invest (money available). Our wage structure is very low for our revenue (approx 42%?)and we know those revenue numbers have and will continue to explode. We have a player in kane (one if our own) which are extreemly few and far inbetween and we need to make the most of it.

I hate the 'dont dare to question our leaders' attitude if some people but understand that they feel that way due to the darker and leaner times the club have gone through. But also if i suddenly became a self made multi millionaire id sure as hell be getting questioned if i continued to penny pinch just because id had to live that way when i was piss poor.

Deli alley 61 said:

We’re the only team out of the other “top 6” who are our rivals and have been for nearly 10 years now.

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you do realise buying players doesn't always guarantee success, Man C spent 1 billion before winning their 1st.

Since Poch has been here we have played in 2 Finals, and 3 semi finals, and finished in the top 4 on 4 occasions, with other players added to the squad doesn't guarantee any of that would of changed. Poch saying our mentality must change might be aimed at the players, fans or the club. if he isn't happy at the moment and it's to do with transfers it might be because he has heard both Fulham and Betis are playing up, but in some eyes it's easier to blame Levy.

we are also the bottom of the pile when it comes to money of the other 5 even if that changes this or next season. Both Chelsea and Man City during their time have also built a top youth system, 1 that got Chelsea a ban.

tooey said:

I love it when people say we should demand more as a fan base, like if we all close our eyes and wish hard enough we'll manifest a trophy.

Not too long ago we were competing with Everton, Newcastle and Villa, now we're competing with the elite of world football but that isn't good enough for some of you. Guess what? We aren't the only team not to win a trophy in while and it isn't our god given right to win one, what we can do is continue to do good business off and on the pitch and wait our turn.

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I think he means we should storm the training ground after a loss and behead those most at fault? Could be wrong though ?‍