Match Threads Brighton vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 20

Deleted member 27995 · Jan 31, 2021

For those

rez9000 said:
From Brighton, I'd have Dunk and Lamptey in a heartbeat. And that's just off the top of my head. So the gulf in quality isn't as wide as some may think.

Bissoma (spelling) would walk into central mid for us right now and that's painful.

spurs mental · Jan 31, 2021

TheTanguy · Jan 31, 2021

rez9000 said:
From Brighton, I'd have Dunk and Lamptey in a heartbeat. And that's just off the top of my head. So the gulf in quality isn't as wide as some may think.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd take Sanchez, their goalie, over Gazzaniga.

Bissouma is also much better than midfielders like Sissoko and Winks.

handsomecake · Jan 31, 2021

topper said:
But then isn't Kane that player?

Yes but we need more. Kane was luck . Im talking about identifying talent and getting it over the line.

If we can afford to pay bale what we are paying him we could get other players. The last few millions seems to always cost us a mane or a Grealish or a skriniar.

We will never get out of this cycle mate. We had Modric, Bale and Kane at various times but never together and never built on it with any of them. You need to build on it when you get the chance.

The stadium is all fur coat and no knickers. If Kane leaves we could become a joke club like them down the road.

gloryspur · Jan 31, 2021

rez9000 said:
And they ended up not playing for the last manager as well. What's the common denominator here? What accounts for any expectation that they'll suddenly turn it on and leave it on for the next candidate?

Agree it's all too short-term now but this seems to be, for far too long in our DNA. Poch was close to turning this round, mentality wise, still the barren years without a trophy roll on. The longest serving managers in the Premier League only remain by winning trophy after trophy. Fergie & the Whinger were the last, to me Klopp & Guardiola are following in this pattern. Even Arteta won a trophy in a half a season for that lot. Pot fulls of money help don't get me wrong but once you start winning, it's true that success breeds success. Having a manager that unifies rather than divides can also bring its own rich rewards.

rez9000 · Jan 31, 2021

handsomecake said:
Yes but we need more. Kane was luck . Im talking about identifying talent and getting it over the line.

If we can afford to pay bale what we are paying him we could get other players. The last few millions seems to always cost us a mane or a Grealish or a skriniar.

We will never get out of this cycle mate. We had Modric, Bale and Kane at various times but never together and never built on it with any of them. You need to build on it when you get the chance.

The stadium is all fur coat and no knickers. If Kane leaves we could become a joke club like them down the road.

Hate to say it, but you're right. And I've been banging this drum for a while, but unless we start looking at ourselves differently (from the boardroom down) we'll keep suffering the same confidence issues that have plagued us for so long which will prevent us from achieving anything, no matter who's managing the team.

Right now, we're firm 'also-rans' and that's built-in.

As much as I admire and respect him for his ability and for what he's done for the club, our chairman has to alter his approach a little.

He has to become a little less hard-nosed on the business side of things. I know it's served us well and I have confidence it will keep the club on a firm footing going forward, but I feel there's room for a small change - a little less conservatism.

Not us going on a massive splurge, but maybe a little more willingness to let players go for less than we expect; maybe not trying to push every acquisition down to the last penny and risk losing it altogether; both of those would lead to a little more agility; maybe being willing to splash the cash on occasion for a superstar. Not every year, not every window, but once every three or four years, while still keeping the conveyor belt of players in-players out going.

He should also splash out on some proper sports psychology for the squad. We have to start getting their heads right.

DiamondLites · Jan 31, 2021

spud said:
Don't agree. We have very good players. Would you swap any with the Brighton players? It's up to the manager to devise a system to get the best out of them.

Bissouma is a player, Lamptey and Ben White are good young players but beyond them I’d struggle

What’s important is a manager who can get the best out of the players he does have, has a system and plan in place to facilitate that, and who motivates the players to carry out these instructions. That is what Leeds have. It is what Southampton has, Leicester too. Even Brighton, although not flying by any means, you can see they have a plan, a set way of playing and a group of essentially average players is able to out perform a more talented but rudderless and unmotivated side as they faced today

fishhhandaricecake · Jan 31, 2021

gloryspur said:
Something has to be said for Chelski. Even if it is a circus and the manager is a continual revolving door, least they end up in the top 4 and then usually picking up a trophy out of it. Even if I hate the way they do it, you have to say it gets results. Today immediately Tuchal changes it and breathes new life into them. Next up us, time to dread this.

Our last trophy was 2008! Even then it was hardly attention grabbing, the league cup. Roll forward 12 years we end up with a final but in the same competition! I grant you it's a shot at a trophy but we've had to sacrifice our souls for it! Mourinho is yesterday's man and looking at him today, was watching a scared rabbit in the headlights, absolutely clueless and someone who can't find a way way out of a mess he effectively sowed, player fallouts, negative tactics and the miserable demeanour combine to let history repeat itself. Players are just not playing for him, not acceptable!

As rightfully posted once upon a time Mourinho had an embarrassment of riches to fall back on at Madrid/Milan, now it's just an embarrassment of rags. Time for billionnaire owner then and the deadwood to be chopped...it doesn't sit comfortably with me that either but then neither does it supporting what seems to be a painful, laughing stock.

Well Chelsea have billions of pounds in their squad and they actually on the whole pick pretty decent managers or at least they dip their hand in every top manager going it’s insane the list of top managers they’ve tried in the last 15 years, yes I’m jealous!

rez9000 · Jan 31, 2021

gloryspur said:
Agree it's all too short-term now but this seems to be, for far too long in our DNA. Poch was close to turning this round, mentality wise, still the barren years without a trophy roll on. The longest serving managers in the Premier League only remain by winning trophy after trophy. Fergie & the Whinger were the last, to me Klopp & Guardiola are following in this pattern. Even Arteta won a trophy in a half a season for that lot. Pot fulls of money help don't get me wrong but once you start winning, it's true that success breeds success. Having a manager that unifies rather than divides can also bring its own rich rewards.

I agree with your overall point, but where I think we diverge is that you're operating from a position that Mourinho is divisive. If we put his tenure at Man U aside, he's never been divisive. Controversial, absolutely. Harsh on some players, also agreed. But it's always brought results.

The usual narrative about Mourinho is that he leaves clubs in disarray, but if one looks at his moves from club to club, it doesn't actually bear out. The clubs he's left in acrimonious circumstances were Chelsea, Real and Man U. Hardly candidates for stable or welcoming places to work. Chelsea have burned through a dozen managers at least since Mourinho's first stint (not to mention just sacking one of their club legends), Real is one of the most vicious and spiteful clubs in the world and Man U is the cash cow for a bunch of American know-nothings (football-wise) led by their pet MBA.

Likewise the idea he throws players under the bus. Look at who he has done that to - for every Pogba or Shaw (hardly paragons of professionalism) there are literally dozens of players who will laud him to the skies and say he's the best manager they ever played for. His approach to man-management may not be gentle, but it is effective - we need look no further than the change in our very own Tangmesiter to see that.

There is too much emotionalism attached on the part of fans to Mourinho. He's partially responsible for it, because that's the public facade he's built over the years. But anyone who has spoken of the man behind closed doors speaks of a thoughtful, highly intelligent person who lives and breathes football. And yet some of us want to treat him as if he's Satan incarnate. Because they seem to feel (not saying you, speaking generally) that they are entitled to football being played in a way they like and if it's not that automatically makes the person directing it incompetent. The self-entitlement makes the mind boggle.

rez9000 · Jan 31, 2021

rez9000 said:
I didn't use any Latin in that post. Plus ad absurdum is a loan-phrase, so counts as English anyway...

Sorry, @razzmaster - was the Spam rating fat fingers?

spurs mental · Jan 31, 2021

DCSPUR said:
what should have happened after CL final was recognition that we'd had an incredible 5 years where we had dealt with some very tough things (2 years at wembley, no purchases etc). Needed to say to Poch, here's another 5 years and may need to take step back and build again.
Instead clearly an arrogance around Levy world that we were ready for next level with the stadium and that Poch was holding us back - absurd!

Yeah fuck Levy for sacking Poch when we were regularly getting smashed every week and in relegation form. Fuck him for not allowing Poch to stay after he said that he still wasn't over the CL final defeat or saying he'd have left if we'd won.

Fuck Levy for not being out on the pitch bossing the midfield for us tonight. Its just not good enough.

rez9000 · Jan 31, 2021

DCSPUR said:
what should have happened after CL final was recognition that we'd had an incredible 5 years where we had dealt with some very tough things (2 years at wembley, no purchases etc). Needed to say to Poch, here's another 5 years and may need to take step back and build again.
Instead clearly an arrogance around Levy world that we were ready for next level with the stadium and that Poch was holding us back - absurd!

I think you're right, but not necessarily on the Poch side of things. Poch did himself no favours with his comments before the CL final. As I've reflected on it over the last year and a bit, the more the potential impact of it grows in significance. I'm more and more of the opinion that he ended his Spurs career the day he made 'that' comment. The remaining time he was still here was just leading to the inevitable and that if even he'd been backed more fulsomely that summer, it would have made no difference.

Black · Jan 31, 2021

???

DiVaio · Feb 1, 2021

DCSPUR said:
what should have happened after CL final was recognition that we'd had an incredible 5 years where we had dealt with some very tough things (2 years at wembley, no purchases etc). Needed to say to Poch, here's another 5 years and may need to take step back and build again.
Instead clearly an arrogance around Levy world that we were ready for next level with the stadium and that Poch was holding us back - absurd!

Sorry, did you just said that Levy is at fault because he was too ambitous? ??

The Opinionated Lurker · Feb 1, 2021

spurs mental said:
Yeah fuck Levy for sacking Poch when we were regularly getting smashed every week and in relegation form. Fuck him for not allowing Poch to stay after he said that he still wasn't over the CL final defeat or saying he'd have left if we'd won.

Fuck Levy for not being out on the pitch bossing the midfield for us tonight. Its just not good enough.

The people who won’t shut up about Poch have to be the most annoying part of the fanbase in recent years tbh.

DenverSpur · Feb 1, 2021

It’s not just a Jose Spurs team that is great at this we’ve been famous for a long while at rehabilitating poor form teams. I quite expect us to reward Brighton with their first home win of the season on Sunday. It’s what we do! Just like we rarely turn up for the really big games. It’s who we are

I wrote the above in the match thread for the Liverpool game. It doesn’t matter who our manager is this leopard never changes his spots.

rossdapep · Feb 1, 2021

rez9000 said:
Hate to say it, but you're right. And I've been banging this drum for a while, but unless we start looking at ourselves differently (from the boardroom down) we'll keep suffering the same confidence issues that have plagued us for so long which will prevent us from achieving anything, no matter who's managing the team.

Right now, we're firm 'also-rans' and that's built-in.

As much as I admire and respect him for his ability and for what he's done for the club, our chairman has to alter his approach a little.

He has to become a little less hard-nosed on the business side of things. I know it's served us well and I have confidence it will keep the club on a firm footing going forward, but I feel there's room for a small change - a little less conservatism.

Not us going on a massive splurge, but maybe a little more willingness to let players go for less than we expect; maybe not trying to push every acquisition down to the last penny and risk losing it altogether; both of those would lead to a little more agility; maybe being willing to splash the cash on occasion for a superstar. Not every year, not every window, but once every three or four years, while still keeping the conveyor belt of players in-players out going.

He should also splash out on some proper sports psychology for the squad. We have to start getting their heads right.

i said the Jose appointment was the final roll of the dice for him and if it didn't work out he needed to step away from the footballing side of things. Get a Sporting Ditector who can identify coaches and players based on a way of playing and a certain direction.

We can't keep going from long-term coach to short-term and back again. They both need totally different sets of players which takes time and a lot of spenditure.

If Jose doesn't show enough success by end of season, we should consider getting a coach who can work with Sessegnon, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Clarke, Bergwijn, Skipp, Hojbjerg, Tanganga, Reguilon, Son, Kane, Parrott, Rodon and build on that.

Because Jose will want to get rid of a fair few and some may be the wrong call. Also, if he brings in more Doherty, Vinicius types, they may not fit the new coaches way of playing.

Either you go all in with Jose or, if you worry about selling certain individuals, you get him out the door

punkisback · Feb 1, 2021

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg said:
For those

Bissoma (spelling) would walk into central mid for us right now and that's painful.

Exactly. Recruitment has been poor, levy and hitchen are taking the piss if they think we can’t improve on what we have. So many players from other supposedly inferior teams would walk into our first 11 and squad.

glacierSpurs · Feb 1, 2021

Waking up to a loss is sometimes worse than a bad hangover. I have to convince myself the day will be great by not thinking about the result. But then I will definitely be reminded because sometimes I even dreamt of a reversal of the matches that we lost...

cider spurs · Feb 1, 2021

Looks like I'll have to accept we're a bit shit.

Doesn't mean I like it tho'.

Can't even be bothered with the blame game. Ability, mentality, Mourinho.

It's yet again another clusterfuck resulting in ponderous, toothless performances.

I've watched alot of football this lockdown, and I can honestly say, that I've not seen a team with so little fighting spirit as ours of late.

Crap passing, no movement, shoddy defending, lack of fight, questionable team selections, formations, in house spats.

Why do we always seem to struggle to field eleven players on the pitch at the same time that actually play like it matters.

It's feckin abysmal at times. I can take the losses, but the manner in which they are coming, is nothing short of piss taking.

As a collective, it's embarrassing all round.

Says alot when I see pretty much every team in the prem show more grit and determination than Spurs. Yes, we might be above some of them, but that's most probably because they lack that bit of quality.

But by fuck do they at least try to make up for it with hard work, not us, we amble along playing our usual toothless brand of football.

Weak.

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