Jose Mourinho

-Afri-Coy- · Apr 30, 2021

jurgen said:
His results with us are there for all to see, unfortunately. Interesting that Utds trajectory seems to be upwards now considering how toxic things got after those trophies were won...

No arguments on his results here, but doesn't change the fact that you can't use United's current form or situation to take away from what he did there when they still haven't reached the heights he did when he was in charge. Whether they do or not isn't guaranteed either.

Sputic · Apr 30, 2021

-Afri-Coy- said:
No arguments on his results here, but doesn't change the fact that you can't use United's current form or situation to take away from what he did there when they still haven't reached the heights he did when he was in charge. Whether they do or not isn't guaranteed either.

He won the trophies in his first season, and they finished second despite being utterly underwhelming. Once de Gea stopped being otherworldly in goal the results quickly dropped off and began to match the performances. The more time he had with those players, the worse they got. His goose was cooked a long time ago. When did he last win a CL knockout game?

midge · Apr 30, 2021

Jose just has football in his blood.

He cant keep away from it.

Be hard to go back to Sky with the amount of shite they have piled on him

Ron Burgundy · Apr 30, 2021

-Afri-Coy- said:
And yet they would still need an FA cup just to match his results with them. They also have a better squad than when he was at the helm, that's a fact. "A better vibe" and "much better football" still hasn't delivered comparative results. And this game is all about one thing at the end of the day, results.

I just don't agree with this

Utd are obviously a better team now than they were. Look at Luke Shaw. And Pogba is amazing now. Mou totally failed to get the best out of his best asset. That's super damning.

Football, these days, is about playing on the biggest stage...and ideally winning trophies there. But you've got to be there first.

This whole "would you rather get top 4 or a domestic trophy" debate for me is crazy - getting in the Champ League is way more important.

Mourinho has been bested by someone he sneered at. I'm glad he's gone.

As for who our next manager is going to be? God knows. It's looking incredibly bleak. But if we're going to be shit anyway, I'd rather we were shit and interesting than slightly less shit and boring

Shadydan · Apr 30, 2021

midge said:
Jose just has football in his blood.

He cant keep away from it.

Be hard to go back to Sky with the amount of shite they have piled on him

Nothing worse then when he was managing Utd.

mumfordspur · Apr 30, 2021

I am still bitter about the amount of compensation THFC have to pay him
(£20m?) that could have been spent on upgrading the team.
As for him I care not a jot he has gone just with he had taken his boss with him

dtxspurs · Apr 30, 2021

He must hate his family. The guy just made 15mil to not work and he's going to do radio?

PrettyColors · Apr 30, 2021

dtxspurs said:
He must hate his family. The guy just made 15mil to not work and he's going to do radio?

A really underrated note of Jose's personality and standing as a man outside football is that he doesn't wear a wedding ring anymore. Lot of rumors that it's because he cheated on her and they're just together in name only.

I think a lot of his actions at Spurs can be better understood through the lens of a man who is unhappy personally and guilty.

wrd · Apr 30, 2021

-Afri-Coy- said:
And yet they would still need an FA cup just to match his results with them. They also have a better squad than when he was at the helm, that's a fact. "A better vibe" and "much better football" still hasn't delivered comparative results. And this game is all about one thing at the end of the day, results.

I disagree on your last sentence, I know a lot of United fans who yes want to win things but their level of enjoyment with football is through the roof these days relative to the time at Jose. I think actually enjoying football week to week as a football fan seems to be forgotten about quite easily.

-Afri-Coy- · Apr 30, 2021

wrd said:
Seeing Jose sign up for Talksport and the Sun reminds me of WWF with Sunny. She was in the late 90's one of the hottest women on the planet, according to America Online in 96 she was the most downloaded name on the internet (whatever that means). For years Playboy were desperate for her to appear but she wouldn't have any of it. Anyway

I disagree on your last sentence, I know a lot of United fans who yes want to win things but their level of enjoyment with football is through the roof these days relative to the time at Jose. I think actually enjoying football week to week as a football fan seems to be forgotten about quite easily.

This is personal preference, regardless though enjoyment from the game is secondary to the main reason football or any sport is played, results.

Would you be enjoying watching Spurs if we played pretty football but were languishing mid table? I don’t think so. But I do understand your view too. I have the same feelings, I love being entertained by the football itself rather than just the results but they need to go hand in hand.

The OP said that United are doing better than when they were under Mourinho and like I said, they may be playing “prettier” football and the fans and players may be happier, but they haven’t delivered the results, as yet, to prove that they are indeed doing better without him. They need to actually win an fa cup and win EL just to match how good they were under him. You can’t just be happy with the football if it doesn’t deliver the (better) results.

And even more to the point, if Mourinho failed by their standards, then isn’t OGS failing too if he hasn’t even matched those records? How long will he be given to actually take United back to where they belong? Because that’s what their fans really want to see. Not just pretty football. I know, United is the most supported team here in SA bar maybe Liverpool.

If they cross the line like Chelsea did after his second stint then it’s fair play but we’re counting chickens before eggs here.

sausage · Apr 30, 2021

PrettyColors said:
A really underrated note of Jose's personality and standing as a man outside football is that he doesn't wear a wedding ring anymore. Lot of rumors that it's because he cheated on her and they're just together in name only.

I think a lot of his actions at Spurs can be better understood through the lens of a man who is unhappy personally and guilty.

He's wearing it in the talksport videos

wrd · Apr 30, 2021

-Afri-Coy- said:
This is personal preference, regardless though enjoyment from the game is secondary to the main reason football or any sport is played, results.

Would you be enjoying watching Spurs if we played pretty football but were languishing mid table? I don’t think so. But I do understand your view too. I have the same feelings, I love being entertained by the football itself rather than just the results but they need to go hand in hand.

The OP said that United are doing better than when they were under Mourinho and like I said, they may be playing “prettier” football and the fans and players may be happier, but they haven’t delivered the results, as yet, to prove that they are indeed doing better without him. They need to actually win an fa cup and win EL just to match how good they were under him. You can’t just be happy with the football if it doesn’t deliver the (better) results.

And even more to the point, if Mourinho failed by their standards, then isn’t OGS failing too if he hasn’t even matched those records? How long will he be given to actually take United back to where they belong? Because that’s what their fans really want to see. Not just pretty football. I know, United is the most supported team here in SA bar maybe Liverpool.

If they cross the line like Chelsea did after his second stint then it’s fair play but we’re counting chickens before eggs here.

I think all you said is fair, I didn't really read the original post. I think it's a combination of results and actually enjoying the football, I think the narrative of chasing a title can be excitement enough to where the football doesn't have to be pretty but a domestic trophy doesn't justify poor football over a season for example. It's always difficult to strike the balance, Liverpool and City fans have been thoroughly spoilt in recent years.

I think that the trajectory than OGS has them on relative to Jose is what they enjoy at the moment, I think those trophies papered over some cracks but the direction it feels that United are heading in is doing enough to appease the fans relative to the time under Jose. However I think most united fans probably are a bit concerned that they don't think OGS is the man to take them back to the top but he seems to always do just enough to justify keeping his job. I think they need to replace him in the next 12 months if they want to be successful again but he's got them on the right path.

McFlash · Apr 30, 2021

jolsnogross said:
No staying power with a guy who had persistent success over multiple seasons. AT OUR CLUB. He was binned 12 league games after finishing 4th and getting to a CL final. And that was during his rough patch. We've been spiralling downward since he left.

Mad chairman, mad fans, and real mad yidd sounds about right.

Come on mate, we were spiralling downward before he left. It was plain to see that things had gone south during the last 12-18 months of his tenure, and that he himself wasn't with us anymore, not to mention that the players had become 'disillusioned'.
It was just that Jose didn't manage to halt the downwards spiral.

I think that most fans, although disappointed with the decision to sack Poch, understand that it had to be done when it was.

chinaman · Apr 30, 2021

If the players were disillusioned with Poch after what he did earlier to transform the team into one of the best outfits, it was because he acted as baldie's shield for too long. I think most of the players knew we were just a couple of upgrades short of being champions and for all the promises made through Poch, nothing was done.

To me, the only failing of Poch was being too loyal to Baldie. In the end his loyalty counted for nothing.

Stamford · Apr 30, 2021

jolsnogross said:
No staying power with a guy who had persistent success over multiple seasons. AT OUR CLUB. He was binned 12 league games after finishing 4th and getting to a CL final. And that was during his rough patch. We've been spiralling downward since he left.

Mad chairman, mad fans, and real mad yidd sounds about right.

a rough patch genuinely doesn't last that long

sausage · Apr 30, 2021

Stamford said:
a rough patch genuinely doesn't last that long

Exactly. At the risk of this being a 'Poch' thread (people keep steering back to it), they need to remember how that "finished 4th" season ended:

14 points out of 39 (1.1 pts per game). I recall it being a major miracle that we hung on to 4th, and it almost seemed like no one else wanted it!

The summer only served to split apart what would have easily been a season no different to Fulham's

jolsnogross · Apr 30, 2021

Revisionists like to prattle on about 18 months or two years or even more of decline under Poch. But we were on fire results wise until February, and then it trailed off badly, but the key context for that was we were on the run of our lives in the CL. And we still managed 4th. So it was feb to October, during which we made a CL final, finished 4th, and the manager wanted to evolve the squad to a new cycle.

That 9 month spell from Feb to Oct, which includes the off season, was the downturn. And it says so much about chairman and some fans that the longevity of his great work at Spurs somehow pales in comparison to this. In fact, he could only be viewed harshly in the context of his own sustained success at our club. The shortsighted among us, including Levy, had a shifted baseline notion that his success could be viewed as normal at spurs rather than the anomaly it was.

Will we see 3 or 4 consecutive seasons in the CL again this decade? Ah, but we had a bad end to a campaign once when finishing 4th.

At least the Jose fan boys will have him on the radio to keep things interesting.

gaz73 · Apr 30, 2021

sausage said:
Exactly. At the risk of this being a 'Poch' thread (people keep steering back to it), they need to remember how that "finished 4th" season ended:

View attachment 86484

14 points out of 39 (1.1 pts per game). I recall it being a major miracle that we hung on to 4th, and it almost seemed like no one else wanted it!

The summer only served to split apart what would have easily been a season no different to Fulham's

the performances started to go bad turn of the year but we managed to pick up the points otherwise it would have looked worse. games started to become a slog, we were falling behind in most and turning games around late on. it was more than just a bad patch its why i could accept it was the end for poch. little did i know or expect 2yrs later we'd still in be the same position

sausage · Apr 30, 2021

gaz73 said:
the performances started to go bad turn of the year but we managed to pick up the points otherwise it would have looked worse. games started to become a slog, we were falling behind in most and turning games around late on. it was more than just a bad patch its why i could accept it was the end for poch. little did i know or expect 2yrs later we'd still in be the same position

I remember the performances were shocking all season, but we managed to still win. People were saying that it was a sign that we were getting to the next level like Fergie's Utd - winning despite being crap.

The inevitable was that we stopped doing that - but I don't think the performances changed much for the entire season, really. It was arguably the same in the CL - some great moments, but both Liverpool and us were a bit crap during the whole campaign.

stormfly · Apr 30, 2021

We all know Jose will manage another team and be hugely successful. He will probably manage another 4 teams and we will be the only team he has never won anything at. It’s just what we do.

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