The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

dannythomas · Feb 1, 2023

WiganSpur said:
You either:

Establish a clear plan, philosophy and structure that goes beyond any individual coach, or even director of football. Invest heavily into scouting, recruitment and the academy to bring down the wage bill and transfer fees.

Appoint a win now manager and back them with cold hard cash to give them everything they need.

For the moment we've gone down the latter route half-heartedly. It's backing but 70% and not 100%. And unfortunately option 1 is just not possible for Levy since he is too thin-skinned and cannot give up control to somebody who would have a clue in setting up such a structure.

Does one thing preclude the other ? Of course we should invest in the recruitment of Young players and infrastructure for the future. But every team needs a mix of youth and experience. If I was a Chairman or Owner I wouldn’t want to buy outfield players in their 30s with low sell-on potențial unless they were excepțional like Kane or Son . But players at the end or out of their contracts like Perisic can bring that balance.

Where I think Levy can be heavily criticised is keeping players on loan where they are clearly have no future at the club. The likes of Ndombele , Lo Celso and Reguillon are not coming back. But Levy doesnt want to sell them at a loss because it looks bad on the balance sheet. You can include Sanchez in that category too even though he cant be loaned out. That would free up some cash for another player sale potentially and avoid the fiasco that happened with Doherty last night.

Ribble · Feb 1, 2023

WiganSpur said:
You either:

Establish a clear plan, philosophy and structure that goes beyond any individual coach, or even director of football. Invest heavily into scouting, recruitment and the academy to bring down the wage bill and transfer fees.

Appoint a win now manager and back them with cold hard cash to give them everything they need.

For the moment we've gone down the latter route half-heartedly. It's backing but 70% and not 100%. And unfortunately option 1 is just not possible for Levy since he is too thin-skinned and cannot give up control to somebody who would have a clue in setting up such a structure.

Except he's tried it on multiple occasions and it's invariably gone to shit. Pleat meddled and didn't give Hoddle players he wanted, Arnesen came in and built a system then got poached & fucked it up, Commoli came in, agitated to get Jol sacked for his own choice and it was a disaster. I almost forgot about Franco Baldini too, coming in and blowing most of the Bale money. Paratici is yet another go-around with having someone in that kind of position (not counting Hitchen or Tactics Tim because they had less power), & he's probably been the most successful since Arnesen.

I think he's massively culpable for those appointments and he's taken us as far as he can, but you can't say he's not tried to have other people involved with the footballing side of things. Conversely one of the few times he entirely fucked it off was with Redknapp and it was considerably more successful than most of them (although you could say long-term that's caused problems since)!

WiganSpur · Feb 1, 2023

dannythomas said:
Does one thing preclude the other ? Of course we should invest in the recruitment of Young players and infrastructure for the future. But every team needs a mix of age and experience. If I was a Chairman or Owner I wouldn’t want to buy outfield players in their 30s with low sell-on potențial unless they were excepțional like Kane or Son . But players at the end or out of their contracts like Perisic can bring that balance.

Where I think Levy can be heavily criticised is keeping players on loan where they are clearly have no future at the club. The likes of Ndombele , Lo Celso and Reguillon are not coming back. But Levy doesnt want to sell them at a loss because it looks bad on the balance sheet. You can include Sanchez in that category too even though he cant be loaned out. That would free up some cash for another player sale potentially and avoid the fiasco that happened with Doherty last night.

It doesn't no. If I were in charge, i'd be spending the big money on maintaining a group of 17-18 top class first team players where necessary, and for the other 7/8 attempting to fill back up slots with youth academy prospects or failing that experienced free transfers or and loans to cover gaps and minimise the impact of recruitment mistakes. It doesn't seem especially difficult with adequate investment in the academy, and gives the squad the perfect blend of youth, experience and quality required to succeed.

ReadieSpur · Feb 1, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
Guaranteed it will mentio:
- increased net spend since the stadium opened
- Hiring a world class coach and sporting director in conte & Paratici to build towards success as they did at juve (lol)
- promote young players academy etc
- every penny the club makes goes back into the football side of the club

blah blah.

All basically telling us absolutely nothing.

Let’s see.

What else do you want them to tell you? Lies? ??

Japhet · Feb 1, 2023

brasil_spur said:
Agreed.

My (optimistic) prediction on what happens next is something along these lines:

Paratici clearly can't stay in place, he's removed in the coming days/weeks.

Conte commits to the end of the season, but as soon as we kick the last ball he confirms his retirement/hiatus from football, for personal reasons.

Poch is announced as new Manager, around the same time as new DoF is announced (all before start of the season).

Funding partner is announced, be it QSI or someone else, circa. £1bn investment for 20% of the club.

Kane will stay and sign a new contract with a release clause.

That allows us to go into 23/24 season with £200m to spend in the summer (we'll likely spend about £160-180m of that) and with a new (returning) manager bounce and European football of some sort (either CL or EL).

Fans will be largely happy.
Levy will be happy as a pig in shit having pulled off another hail mary stay of execution.

What then happens will be interesting to see and something I don't think any of us can predict. But we will likely have a better squad than when Poch left and something that with minimal future investment (less than £100m per season) can in theory keep us moving forward with momentum.

The cherry on top of the cake with all the above would be if Conte can get us over the line with an FA Cup this season. He deserves it IMO and would allow him a very graceful exit from football - having achieved the impossible with the perennial underachievers.

Don't think Poch would want a DOF. He did it under sufferance at PSG. He wanted full control when he was here last time and bought in Ndombele and LoCelso as top picks.

Hotspur33 · Feb 1, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
Guaranteed it will mentio:
- increased net spend since the stadium opened
- Hiring a world class coach and sporting director in conte & Paratici to build towards success as they did at juve (lol)
- promote young players academy etc
- every penny the club makes goes back into the football side of the club

blah blah.

All basically telling us absolutely nothing.

Let’s see.

What level of detail would you like them to go into, in a public forum?

Hotspur33 · Feb 1, 2023

Japhet said:
Don't think Poch would want a DOF. He did it under sufferance at PSG. He wanted full control when he was here last time and bought in Ndombele and LoCelso as top picks.

I think Poch is gonna have to accept it if he wants back in.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 1, 2023

Hotspur33 said:
What level of detail would you like them to go into, in a public forum?

It doesn’t matter what they say mate they won’t follow through with it anyway.

Last statement said we’d lost focus on the football team and our style of play and DNA and they went and hired Nuno ?‍

I’ve explained before what I think our strategy should be mate, sure some of it can’t be shared publicly but we have so much uncertainty right now the fans need to see and hear some semblance of a plan.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 1, 2023

Trix said:
What it won't mention.

-Highest season ticket prices in the league
-Lowest % spend to income received
-An academy that has really struggled at the higer age groups due to long term previous mismanagement
-whilst they aren't taking the money out they aren't spending it either.

Bang on ?

They pull the wool over our eyes with what they do say.

They don’t say a lot of what we actually want to hear.

And then your points above are spot on the actual reality.

cookiemonster · Feb 1, 2023

bc205 said:
How do you measure success? There are other metrics aside from just trophies. I think it's pretty unfair and hyperbolic to describe the last 10 years as mediocre.

Under Levy we have consistently played European and Champions League football, have had title challenges, played in multiple cup finals, and have built the infrastructure to establish ourselves as one of the biggest clubs in the world by revenue. Given where we were 20 years ago i would say that is pretty successful. Personally, i certainly wouldn't give that up for a couple of fa/league cups.

Now i am not sure if Levy is the right person to take the club to the next level and win major honours. I understand why people want him to step back. But we shouldn't undersell and dismiss what the club has achieved over the last 20 years. Villa and Everton fans would bite your hand off to be where we are now.

Businesses measure success by...profits

Football clubs measure success by..trophies

Period

HotSprut · Feb 1, 2023

spursfan77 said:
But what has happened to the £50 million not drawn down last year, which we were told had to be taken before the end of the year. That’s what I want to know. Also I want to know what it points to that it wasn’t taken.

This confuses me! Where did the money go?

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 1, 2023

Hotspur33 said:
What level of detail would you like them to go into, in a public forum?

Tbh mate I see no reason why they couldn’t to an extent provide clarity something like the below:
1. Conte’s future: “Antonio has done a fantastic job with us the past 12 months, we hope to agree a long term contract extension with Antonio this summer to build on his great work so far, if mutually that isn’t possible then we will look to hire a manager who fits our football philosophy and who can develop young talented players to ultimately challenge to win trophies. At this point the most important thing is Antonio’s health and we wish him well with his surgery and recovery”

2. Paratici’s future : “Fabio has done a fantastic job to date improving the football side of the club internally and in terms of 1st team signings, working to provide Antonio with a squad capable of competing to win in every competition we play in. We are awaiting the outcome of a ruling to determine if Fabio is able to continue his duties with us, we sincerely hope he can, if he is unable to then we will look to hire a replacement DofF in-line with our football philosophy and plan”

3. Answer regarding football plan and jumping from one approach to another : “We ultimately want Tottenham Hotspur to be successful and challenge to win all competitions we play in. We understand our fans preference for a certain style of attacking entertaining football, we will primarily hire managers and sign players to find a balance between both striving to win and also playing a brand of entertaining football which our fans will appreciate and which is in-line with our clubs proud tradition and DNA. We will also to continue to invest heavily in our youth teams and academy and younger players and coaches and look to promote a consistent style of play which can then be easily translated to a path to the 1st team”

4. Spending and future investment: “We have increased our net spend by x % since the stadium has been up and running. The board drew down significant funds which were used in x y z way to strengthen the football squad, we will look to conclude further commercial partnerships and key sponsorship deals and aim to have a stadium naming rights deal concluded by 2025. We will continue to grow the commercial side of the club via all opportunities and partnerships and this increased revenue in turn will provide greater financial support towards our mens and women’s football teams in order for them to compete to win at the highest level in every competition”

These are just examples and of course could be worded slightly differently or better but there is a lot they can say publicly without causing issues whilst reassuring our fans.

Personally I don’t trust a word they say because the past has shown they regularly don’t honour their word but if they actually made a good clear statement not some wishy washy corporate bs then that would be a huge step forwards in the right direction.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 1, 2023

spursfan77 said:
But what has happened to the £50 million not drawn down last year, which we were told had to be taken before the end of the year. That’s what I want to know. Also I want to know what it points to that it wasn’t taken.

It’s magically disappeared but our property portfolio has somehow grown again ?

bc205 · Feb 1, 2023

cookiemonster said:
Businesses measure success by...profits

Football clubs measure success by..trophies

Period

If you only want to measure success by trophies then that's up to you. Other fans will have different metrics they use.

If you're only going to be happy when we win trophies then you're going to be unhappy for most of the time...

HodisGawd · Feb 1, 2023

cookiemonster said:
Businesses measure success by...profits

Football clubs measure success by..trophies

Period

Don't be so reductionist.

Businesses don't just measure success by profits. They use many measures, as mine does.

And football clubs don't just measure success by trophies. If that was the case, 99% of football clubs would be failures.

League positions also are important, for example, as are matches won.

cookiemonster · Feb 1, 2023

HodisGawd said:
Don't be so reductionist.

Businesses don't just measure success by profits. They use many measures, as mine does.

And football clubs don't just measure success by trophies. If that was the case, 99% of football clubs would be failures.

League positions also are important, for example, as are matches won.

Not 99%

Championship,league 1 & 2 plus playoffs winners all have trophies

That's how lower league clubs measure success too

So lots of clubs have won actually trophies

Just not us

brasil_spur · Feb 1, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
Tbh mate I see no reason why they couldn’t to an extent provide clarity something like the below:
1. Conte’s future: “Antonio has done a fantastic job with us the past 12 months, we hope to agree a long term contract extension with Antonio this summer to build on his great work so far, if mutually that isn’t possible then we will look to hire a manager who fits our football philosophy and who can develop young talented players to ultimately challenge to win trophies. At this point the most important thing is Antonio’s health and we wish him well with his surgery and recovery”

2. Paratici’s future : “Fabio has done a fantastic job to date improving the football side of the club internally and in terms of 1st team signings, working to provide Antonio with a squad capable of competing to win in every competition we play in. We are awaiting the outcome of a ruling to determine if Fabio is able to continue his duties with us, we sincerely hope he can, if he is unable to then we will look to hire a replacement DofF in-line with our football philosophy and plan”

3. Answer regarding football plan and jumping from one approach to another : “We ultimately want Tottenham Hotspur to be successful and challenge to win all competitions we play in. We understand our fans preference for a certain style of attacking entertaining football, we will primarily hire managers and sign players to find a balance between both striving to win and also playing a brand of entertaining football which our fans will appreciate and which is in-line with our clubs proud tradition and DNA. We will also to continue to invest heavily in our youth teams and academy and younger players and coaches and look to promote a consistent style of play which can then be easily translated to a path to the 1st team”

4. Spending and future investment: “We have increased our net spend by x % since the stadium has been up and running. The board drew down significant funds which were used in x y z way to strengthen the football squad, we will look to conclude further commercial partnerships and key sponsorship deals and aim to have a stadium naming rights deal concluded by 2025. We will continue to grow the commercial side of the club via all opportunities and partnerships and this increased revenue in turn will provide greater financial support towards our mens and women’s football teams in order for them to compete to win at the highest level in every competition”

These are just examples and of course could be worded slightly differently or better but there is a lot they can say publicly without causing issues whilst reassuring our fans.

Personally I don’t trust a word they say because the past has shown they regularly don’t honour their word but if they actually made a good clear statement not some wishy washy corporate bs then that would be a huge step forwards in the right direction.

This is exactly why Levy and co get so much criticism, it doesn't take a genius, let alone a professional (sorry assuming you are neither in this context), to write a professional and competent strategy statement like this.

The fact as a club we don't even have the ability to ensure we have someone in the club that can do this / is allowed to do this is testament to the fucking state of things right now under Levy.

Neon_Knight_ · Feb 1, 2023

rossdapep said:
Yep. Spot on, mate.

This bit here is really crucial for me.

Collecott and Cullen have been alongside him god knows how long and even Caplehorn has been there, what? 10 years?

I doubt very much they challenge him or have fresh ideas. In fact, they probably feed the inner accountant in him.

"But Daniel, the young Welsh defender is a third of the cost and we could triple his value"

Weve had ITK over the years that Levy tends to listen to the last person he spoke with and @Trix has mentioned he has people with unqualified football opinions in his ear.

Two major issues there. People unqualified and a comfortable environment.

Its not an environment for success to grow.

You've just explained why a change of ownership would only benefit us if it results in the recruitment of senior staff more qualified / experienced in the footballing side.

So either we need a new Chairman who understands this (not simply a Chairman who isn't Levy), or we need Levy to realise this and act on it.

cookiemonster · Feb 1, 2023

HodisGawd said:
Don't be so reductionist.

Businesses don't just measure success by profits. They use many measures, as mine does.

And football clubs don't just measure success by trophies. If that was the case, 99% of football clubs would be failures.

League positions also are important, for example, as are matches won.

Why do you think Intel stock price crashed last week

Profits or lack of it of course

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 1, 2023

rossdapep said:
Yep. Spot on, mate.

This bit here is really crucial for me.

Collecott and Cullen have been alongside him god knows how long and even Caplehorn has been there, what? 10 years?

I doubt very much they challenge him or have fresh ideas. In fact, they probably feed the inner accountant in him.

"But Daniel, the young Welsh defender is a third of the cost and we could triple his value"

Weve had ITK over the years that Levy tends to listen to the last person he spoke with and @Trix has mentioned he has people with unqualified football opinions in his ear.

Two major issues there. People unqualified and a comfortable environment.

Its not an environment for success to grow.

1,000,000% bang on and this is a huge part of the problem, it’s not just Levy, his sidekicks need moving on too, big refresh needed.

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