The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[Dazzazzad]

Poch's treatment of KWP still annoys me, and I was baffled as to why Jose sold him.

Every time I see him play (which is admittedly not that often) I'm reminded of why he was sold. He gets beaten at the far post due to his size again and again.

 

[taricco]

No long term footballing strategy. Not great for a football club - should be moved on and replaced with someone who can balance business and on pitch strategy. You can't guarantee success, but you can build for it.

 

[Albertbarich]

It's a tricky one this, because the idea that we "never ever" sold players for good money is clearly false. It used to be something we did pretty well, although it comes with limitations. But it's all about the context.

I think our ability to offer larger wages and retain players is really the turning point of ENIC's time, and the point where we could look longer term as a club. It has been far from perfect of course, but I think that was a key stage in the club's development.

It is the easiest game in the world when we have hindsight. If we had sold peak Dele and bought 3 players in exchange I'm sure people would have been mad - and they would have been right in the context of that time. Now we look back it seems like an obvious thing to have done, and we can do the same for all sorts of players, but I don't think the reality of the situations was that clear.

I agree that we are stuck at the moment. If the club/Levy aren't willing to spend the money we are bringing in then there's a real problem. I'm not expecting Chelsea or United levels of spending of course, just to spend the money the stadium is generating. It's fan money that made the stadium possible and fan money that pours into it now. That is the really disappointing thing for me at the moment.

I think it's useful to take individual cases aside and look at if it's right to sell players at a certain point.

Jack made the point that since walker left we have only got semi decent fees for Trippier and Berjwijn and both of those were relatively small and yeah if course there is extenuating circumstances in regards to now lots of Europe being skint the policy of not selling our best players doesn't match with our buying policy.

I agree hindsight is great and people can disbelieve Jack if they wish but I think this is a key point when we talk about the clubs failings.

 

[McArchibald]

The way Levy runs this club is just completely ass-backwards. Imagine him running a haulage company. He would - according to what we witness here - invest a fortune in a shiny warehouse while running his fleet of lorries into the ground. He'd be doing minimal maintenance and only looking for a second hand replacement when one is stranded by the roadside for good. And when the business runs into trouble, he'd fire his freight planners, blaming delivery failures on them.
No one can tell me Levy is doing a good job managing our club. His ousting as Chairman is waaaay overdue.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I wasn't defending Levy at all. It was more about how reactionary everyone is and how blind positivity leads to bringing out the pitchforks soon after.
We desperately needed a RWB but got someone who'd played one decent season in the Championship.
We needed a LWB and got a 33 year old new to the league (not a terrible signing in itself but he was never going to be able to play every game to a high level, and our other option is Sess- a disaster)
Biggest priority should have been 2 CBs but apparently no one was available (obviously because we wouldn't pay up). Anyone that had seen Lenglet in the last 2 years would know he's just an OK squad player.
We needed cover for the wings and Kane. The jury is out on Richarlison but I think he's only really good as a striker but Kane will play almost every game. I don't think he's good enough to be Kane's long term replacement so I don't see it as a shrewd use of the bulk of our budget.
We needed a Bissouma. Think he was a good signing even though it hasn't worked yet.
Attacking midfielder would have been ideal. We got no one.

It was so obvious at the time that the window didn't address our issues, and if we waste summer transfer windows then we're never going to complete our squad to a point where we can compete. Yes, that was mainly on Levy. But the response from our fans was mainly "decent window, fixed many problems, Conte sounds content" blah blah. Then a few months later when we find out nothing was sorted it's suddenly "Levy left us shopping in the bargain bin". That was ALWAYS obvious.

I agree with all of that, but...

"Attacking midfielder would have been ideal. We got no one."
Our manager doesn't seem to want a CAM, as his system doesn't utilise one. It therefore wouldn't be rational to blame Levy / ENIC for this. If Conte had wanted Eriksen in the summer, I think Levy / Paratici would have made it happen.

"We needed a LWB and got a 33 year old new to the league"
I think this was another decision that sits squarely with our manager, as a short-term plug at LWB. Let's not forget that we also signed 19-year-old Udogie (now 20), who appears to be one of the top wingbacks in Serie A, despite his age and inexperience. Perisic + Udogie should be ideal for next season.

"The jury is out on Richarlison"
It was a record transfer fee for a rotation player, so despite what some fans think about recent spending, this signing did very much show ambition from Levy and was a case of Levy backing the manager IMO. I think he has the potential to be a very good squad player, but like you, I don't see him as a long-term replacement for Kane (or Son). I was nervous about this signing from the moment rumours started. Personally, I would have preferred our statement record signing last summer to have been a top quality CB. We needed a forward though and I'm not sure who we should have gone for instead. At the end of the day, I'd say we overpaid for the value he brings to the team, rather than bought the wrong player, as it's not like we could have signed Haaland instead. Hopefully Richarlison will prove us wrong though.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

The way Levy runs this club is just completely ass-backwards. Imagine him running a haulage company. He would - according to what we witness here - invest a fortune in a shiny warehouse while running his fleet of lorries into the ground. He'd be doing minimal maintenance and only looking for a second hand replacement when one is stranded by the roadside for good. And when the business runs into trouble, he'd fire his freight planners, blaming delivery failures on them.
No one can tell me Levy is doing a good job managing our club. His ousting as Chairman is waaaay overdue.

Did you just describe Amazon? ?

 

[mil1lion]

I just want the board to come out and let everyone know what their vision is. The silence is the worst thing for me. Its not even about building a squad to challenge. It's the lack of any indication whether we want to do that or not. It feels like we have an identity crisis at the moment. We're caught between our old ways under the old Stadium and trying to act like a big club under the new one. It sort of feels like if McDonald's were to do their restaurants up into some really fancy looking restaurant but still serve the same food. People will walk in the first time to try it out expecting something different only to find its still the same. This is what it feels like going to the new stadium now.

I think the last time I recall anything about our vision was when we mentioned sacking Jose because of our DNA. Well first of all that's admitting you got it wrong then because you know full well how Jose teams set up. Then you have the shambles of a manager search and get another boring manager in Nuno anyway. Then we get Conte who is another who is all about discipline and structure. He's a winner who needs the best players and you know he will speak out if not backed. So they need to be clear what the plan is because if you hire Conte the fans expect a title challenging team.

Now if he comes out and says we want to build a young squad to develop then that's fair enough. Change to a manager that develops players and sign players to develop. Lower the ticket prices and set the expectations for the fans. If you want exciting attacking football because it's in our DNA then get a manager that plays that way and sign attacking players to fit.

The only reason we're so upset is because we expect to be pushing for titles. In isolation this window is a good window if we just want to challenge for top 4 again. Conte won't be happy to do that though and neither will Kane. We just need a clear vision so we can set our expectations. If we're not going to build a team to challenge then drop ticket prices to reflect the product we pay to see. Although we obviously want to challenge for titles and it seems clear this board won't do that so a takeover would be the only option.

 

[chas vs dave]

The way Levy runs this club is just completely ass-backwards. Imagine him running a haulage company. He would - according to what we witness here - invest a fortune in a shiny warehouse while running his fleet of lorries into the ground. He'd be doing minimal maintenance and only looking for a second hand replacement when one is stranded by the roadside for good. And when the business runs into trouble, he'd fire his freight planners, blaming delivery failures on them.
No one can tell me Levy is doing a good job managing our club. His ousting as Chairman is waaaay overdue.

Wierd analysis. Players aren't trucks. You can't guarantee mileage and that any of them would work at the point of purchase.

Again, Levy has hit a glass ceiling. In terms of on the pitch, we are slightly underperforming, i say slightly, as we should naturally finish between 3rd and 5th, based on clubsize and revenues. Off the pitch he's doing a very good job, that can't be argued.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

I just want the board to come out and let everyone know what their vision is. The silence is the worst thing for me. Its not even about building a squad to challenge. It's the lack of any indication whether we want to do that or not. It feels like we have an identity crisis at the moment. We're caught between our old ways under the old Stadium and trying to act like a big club under the new one. It sort of feels like if McDonald's were to do their restaurants up into some really fancy looking restaurant but still serve the same food. People will walk in the first time to try it out expecting something different only to find its still the same. This is what it feels like going to the new stadium now.

I think the last time I recall anything about our vision was when we mentioned sacking Jose because of our DNA. Well first of all that's admitting you got it wrong then because you know full well how Jose teams set up. Then you have the shambles of a manager search and get another boring manager in Nuno anyway. Then we get Conte who is another who is all about discipline and structure. He's a winner who needs the best players and you know he will speak out if not backed. So they need to be clear what the plan is because if you hire Conte the fans expect a title challenging team.

Now if he comes out and says we want to build a young squad to develop then that's fair enough. Change to a manager that develops players and sign players to develop. Lower the ticket prices and set the expectations for the fans. If you want exciting attacking football because it's in our DNA then get a manager that plays that way and sign attacking players to fit.

The only reason we're so upset is because we expect to be pushing for titles. In isolation this window is a good window if we just want to challenge for top 4 again. Conte won't be happy to do that though and neither will Kane. We just need a clear vision so we can set our expectations. If we're not going to build a team to challenge then drop ticket prices to reflect the product we pay to see. Although we obviously want to challenge for titles and it seems clear this board won't do that so a takeover would be the only option.

To be fair Mcdonalds pretty much did exactly that when they went to the more classy green and gold look.

 

[vegassd]

I think it's useful to take individual cases aside and look at if it's right to sell players at a certain point.

Jack made the point that since walker left we have only got semi decent fees for Trippier and Berjwijn and both of those were relatively small and yeah if course there is extenuating circumstances in regards to now lots of Europe being skint the policy of not selling our best players doesn't match with our buying policy.

I agree hindsight is great and people can disbelieve Jack if they wish but I think this is a key point when we talk about the clubs failings.

Definitely. Selling players is an absolute necessity, but I think that needs to be put into a certain context as well. If a player is seen as a key part of the squad, then selling them generally isn't a good move. How do you ever progress under that strategy? Unless the fee is bonkers (e.g. Bale/Coutinho/Hazard) it's a risky strategy.

It's definitely a balance and all contextual. If we are selling to a PL rival there should probably be a premium on that. We would need to replace those players, so what are the available and realistic alternatives at the time. And with a player as iconic as Kane or Son, there are other commercial factors at play.

I am skeptical about somebody (JPB) who claims to know exactly what Poch/Levy was thinking throughout - especially if the claim is Napoli offered 40m for Lucas! Sure, it might be true, but if it comes packaged up as a collection of examples where Poch = good / Levy = bad, without the context of times Poch = bad or Levy = good then it feels a bit off. You mentioned he had been defending ENIC recently as well, so I wonder if he is catering to the mood a bit in order to generate views. I'm not saying he's been deliberately deceptive btw - it just seems a trend amongst the football press.

A couple of pages back someone said they feel the club has outgrown Levy, and I think that's a pretty good way to put it. If we are going to sell a player at their peak, we need to be very confident that we can use the money to improve the playing staff overall despite the lost player. I wouldn't have confidence in Levy achieving that.

 

[spursfan77]

I wonder how they will fob everyone off with this?



Maybe financials will follow.

 

[ILS]

One of my bugbears with Levy is his lack of investment in top home grown players. At the moment apart from Kane, not one of our HG players is at a consistent level to be playing in our starting line up week in week out.

The problem we now have is that Newcastle have come along and will start eaten up any of the potential HG options we should be looking at. For example I will assume Maddison will be there next season. That leaves us in a position where our replacement keeper must be a HG player as Raya or Pickford are at a level that can come in as a number one. Then you have players like Marc Guehi who in my opinion would be a good signing but we would still want two more centre backs who are established top quality players.

His reluctance to buy British ready players is under played as to how detrimental it is to our squad depth and something that needs addressing quickly. Majority of the fans will want Sess, Tanganga and even possibly Davies gone in the summer, so who we replacing them with?

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

I wonder how they will fob everyone off with this?



Maybe financials will follow.

They had a good long time to think about it and come up with some creative ideas, look forward to some fantastic excuses to go with the endless list of excuses during their tenure. If only there were awards for excuses. Be nice if one day they didn’t need excuses and just weren’t a failure…

That said on a positive I think ENIC have been more brazen than usual at giving the one finger salute to the fan so I would assume they’re maybe coming to a cash in exit strategy. With the stadium and years of failure it’s no longer sustainable to run the footballing side in such a manner, high cost low value, the fans are turning….

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I wonder how they will fob everyone off with this?



Maybe financials will follow.

Guaranteed it will mentio:
- increased net spend since the stadium opened
- Hiring a world class coach and sporting director in conte & Paratici to build towards success as they did at juve (lol)
- promote young players academy etc
- every penny the club makes goes back into the football side of the club

blah blah.

All basically telling us absolutely nothing.

Let’s see.

 

[mil1lion]

One of my bugbears with Levy is his lack of investment in top home grown players. At the moment apart from Kane, not one of our HG players is at a consistent level to be playing in our starting line up week in week out.

The problem we now have is that Newcastle have come along and will start eaten up any of the potential HG options we should be looking at. For example I will assume Maddison will be there next season. That leaves us in a position where our replacement keeper must be a HG player as Raya or Pickford are at a level that can come in as a number one. Then you have players like Marc Guehi who in my opinion would be a good signing but we would still want two more centre backs who are established top quality players.

His reluctance to buy British ready players is under played as to how detrimental it is to our squad depth and something that needs addressing quickly. Majority of the fans will want Sess, Tanganga and even possibly Davies gone in the summer, so who we replacing them with?

I think the plan is to improve the academy. We've made some good signings of late including the Chelsea lad yesterday. Trouble is we went away from that for a bit so will take time for the next wave to be ready. Levy won't want to pay the premium but he'll sign young prospects from lower league clubs. We've had success in the past with that so need to keep feeding the academy. I can see us using players like Skipp and White to pack the squad with homegrown. Maybe Scarlett or Parrott as an attacker for depth.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

No long term footballing strategy. Not great for a football club - should be moved on and replaced with someone who can balance business and on pitch strategy. You can't guarantee success, but you can build for it.

you can accuse them of lot of things but before ENIC arrived throughout the 90's we never finished above 11th and even flirted with relegation - in the last ten years we have not been below 7th and though we probably should have picked up a pot along the way - but for every owner who comes into a club and improves things there are more than a fair few who go the over way

 

[Trix]

Guaranteed it will mentio:
- increased net spend since the stadium opened
- Hiring a world class coach and sporting director in conte & Paratici to build towards success as they did at juve (lol)
- promote young players academy etc
- every penny the club makes goes back into the football side of the club

blah blah.

All basically telling us absolutely nothing.

Let’s see.

What it won't mention.

-Highest season ticket prices in the league
-Lowest % spend to income received
-An academy that has really struggled at the higer age groups due to long term previous mismanagement
-whilst they aren't taking the money out they aren't spending it either.

 

[brasil_spur]

New owners or not this is actually an opportunity for the club to refresh.

He can use Paraticis legal battles and Contes health and personal issues as an excuse whilst apologizing for the past few years and then get a new DOF and coach with the promise of a refresh.

It would take the heat off him and if he hired the right DOF could save himself the money of having win now people who want loads of money for transfers.

Agreed.

My (optimistic) prediction on what happens next is something along these lines:

• Paratici clearly can't stay in place, he's removed in the coming days/weeks.
• Conte commits to the end of the season, but as soon as we kick the last ball he confirms his retirement/hiatus from football, for personal reasons.
• Poch is announced as new Manager, around the same time as new DoF is announced (all before start of the season).
• Funding partner is announced, be it QSI or someone else, circa. £1bn investment for 20% of the club.
• Kane will stay and sign a new contract with a release clause.

That allows us to go into 23/24 season with £200m to spend in the summer (we'll likely spend about £160-180m of that) and with a new (returning) manager bounce and European football of some sort (either CL or EL).

Fans will be largely happy.
Levy will be happy as a pig in shit having pulled off another hail mary stay of execution.

What then happens will be interesting to see and something I don't think any of us can predict. But we will likely have a better squad than when Poch left and something that with minimal future investment (less than £100m per season) can in theory keep us moving forward with momentum.

The cherry on top of the cake with all the above would be if Conte can get us over the line with an FA Cup this season. He deserves it IMO and would allow him a very graceful exit from football - having achieved the impossible with the perennial underachievers.

 

[spursfan77]

But what has happened to the £50 million not drawn down last year, which we were told had to be taken before the end of the year. That’s what I want to know. Also I want to know what it points to that it wasn’t taken.

 

[Hotspur33]

Paratici in legal tussle and Conte with health issue to recover. ?‍ Seriously at this rate Levy might as well handle the presser, select the starting XI and manage the team at the dug out since he likes to get involve so much.

Reading some of the comments here, you’d be forgiven for thinking he already does all that?