Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Bluto Blutarsky said:

All of this moaning about playing academy players - its in the wrong thread.

This is the Ange Postecoglou thread. He is the first team manager. It is his responsibility to deliver first team results. If he gave 5 academy players their debuts, and we finished 15th - he would be sacked. Conversely, if he gave no debuts, and we finished 2nd - he would probably get a new contract.

Ange, despite what some think, is not responsible for player development at Spurs. Yes, he can play a role - but that is neither his responsibility, nor is he being compensated to develop academy players. We have a Director of football, and a director of the Academy - who are responsible for developing those players into first team players - either here, or elsewhere.

It's also premature to start whining in those threads - given that they have not been in their positions - specifically Munn - long enough to have changed player development at the club. Most players at this level do not simply go from playing in the academy to playing in the first team. It's rare that a player has the physical and mental makeup to make that jump at this level. Typically, the player develops at the Academy until he reaches the point where he is ready to be integrated and evaluated in first team training. At that point, most players will go out on loan to the appropriate level, and gain match experience playing big boy football.

We are just now at the point where the club can make some of those decisions with players who are deemed capable of taking that step up. Munn's responsibility (or someone who reports to Munn) is to see that the players continue to develop, and he has to decide if that is best done with continued work with Ange and his coaching staff, or if it is best done at a lower level - and then find appropriate loans. If you feel the need to hear yourself moan about player development - that is where your angst should be directed.

Ange should continue to select players he thinks give him the best chance at winning a given match, and either advancing in Cups, or accumulating the maximum points in the league.

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Styopa said:

How valuable are these minutes here and there which seem to be mentioned now? I mean various players were given minutes under Mourinho for example. Where are they now?

Maybe this is our golden generation and Ange is cocking it all up or maybe a few posters can’t stand being shown up and are trying to find something to complain about. We will see I guess.

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Styopa said:

How valuable are these minutes here and there which seem to be mentioned now?

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Tucker said:

In terms of development probably negligible. In terms of keeping people happy, and giving youth players a win and a reason to want to stay, probably pretty big I imagine.

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Trix said:

Absolutely, and again mate it's not just the current crop it's those lower down the age groups who might get tempted away and also those who we are trying to convince to come here. They need to believe there could be a future here for them and seeing young players get minutes is a big deal as far as visualising that.

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Trix said:

Being shown up how exactly?

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Good Q

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...rr-bentancur-I'm a hipster ball-b1130034.html

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Styopa said:

We’ve done this the last couple pages. You’ve given me a funny rating and a dislike while I’ve had the decency to engage with you honestly. It’s just not worth me engaging with you if you can’t take a bit of criticism without resorting to funny and dislike ratings.

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Trix said:

Perhaps I'm being a bit too critical about this but a lot of that is down to the fact I hear how others are frustrated by it so I know it's becoming an issue. When you have youth team coaches and youth players agents saying it there is clearly a problem somewhere. Whether people on here think it's justified or not, it is a thing. I just don't want to see all the brilliant work FP and his team have put into completely revolutionising the youth system go to shit and back to where it was. It's took a lot of blood, sweat, tears and schmoozing to get this academy back to being competitive and it'd be a real shame if it went back to how it was previous.

So if I have an agenda that is it.

That however is nothing to do with my issue of how we defend at times and is a separate issue entirely.

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Styopa said:

We’ve done this the last couple pages. You’ve given me a funny rating and a dislike while I’ve had the decency to engage with you honestly. It’s just not worth me engaging with you if you can’t take a bit of criticism without resorting to funny and dislike ratings.

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oobaties said:

You’re lucky. I got put on ignore for calling out the same thing.

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Cochise said:

I think Donley is the one that should've seen some minutes. He's been outstanding for his age level and we've had an injury crisis in midfield forcing us to use Skipp, Kulusevski and Hojbjerg in creative roles. Kulusevski has been alright at it, but the other two not so much. Likewise Phillips and Dorrington, although the former missed his first chance due to injury, now both are available yet we are starting Emerson at CB and giving Dier minutes, a player who we are looking to move on.

Personally, I don't get the feeling that Ange feels it is the right time to give these lads meaningful minutes. It's one thing to make your PL starting debut with Romero alongside you to talk you through a game and another to be part of a makeshift defence. The counter to this is the argument that if you aren't going to use these promising young players when you are 5-6 players deep into your squad then when will you?

That will be at the heart of their thinking when the club want to renew their contract and likely what other prospects will think when they hit that level where they are too good to continue in the U18's and U21's.

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McFlash said:

I'm catching up so this has probably been pointed out by now but it would appear that your link has fallen foul of the SC autocorrect.
"I'm a hipster ball"!

Edit, I've caught up now and it hasn't been pointed out because everyone is arguing about the kids again.

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olithfc said:

It was a bit odd to take Ashley Phillips and not reloan him to blackburn or somewhere else where they wanted to play him in the first team. But isn't this also a product of our youth players not being loaned very well at the right times?
Alternatively the england youth cb is way off it when it comes to training with the first team compared to the FB

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Frozen_Waffles said:

From what I've seen of Donley he plays like Harry Kane regen, he must have based his game on him. He is a 10 and a 9. (More a 10 in my book)

Saying that and I agree he should be in line, but Kulusevski has been wonderful in that position (10) and the only other player to play there is GLC who has also been excellent. (Most of the time)

I don't think at any point he should be playing as an 8, certainly not the way Hoijberg has been dispatched. It's not his position. Neither would I be putting him ahead of Kulusevski or GLC.

Ange has been attempting to bring him in for minutes at the end of the game (similar to Veliz), which is fair at this point.

With one game a week and both GLC and Kulusevski generally available, would you have started him ahead of those 2?

There could be an argument with Son out to play Kulusevski with Johnson and Richarlison and have Donley as the AM, maybe against Burnley (GLC as 8) but if he does then we are giving up on Gil.

With the youngsters (from what I've seen) they are not ready for regular premier league starts, Donley is perhaps closest. There is an argument for Dorrington/Phillips, but no one else at the moment imo.

I'm old fashioned but you need experience in the CB positions, if we have a settled line up (with Romero fit) I'd consider Dorrington/Phillips. But again you'd be taking minutes away from Davies who has been very good in recent games.

You have to remember we have a very young team anyway and it's such a demanding way of playing for centre backs.

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Cochise said:

I think it's a balancing act and the boss has to also consider his position. I reckon there is a remit at the club for him to achieve European football this year, so he'll back the out of position senior pros over kids.

Perhaps next year when we are more settled they see more minutes.

I think there is also the argument of taking the clubs future into account. Emerson, Skipp and Hojbjerg are not the future of the club but Phillips and Donley could be. So in that sense giving them minutes and developing them as players instead of playing those we will be looking to sell makes more sense.

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