Why Trophies don't matter any more

Streetspur77 · Feb 24, 2018

beats1 said:
So it begs the question, what is our ultimate goal. If the goal is to win a CL or PL trophy then we need to trust we are going in the right direction but if at the end of this era we dont come back with a trophy and just some good seasons. Then like the 76ers it will have been a failure without the trophy at the end of the era.

But what's your definition of failure?

This has been my favourite years following spurs for ages and has given me so many memories/players I'll remember for the rest of my life. Is that a failure?

Alternatively, ask a Wigan, Arsenal or United fan how their recent years have been, all clubs that have clearly not been "following a process" and have all clearly gone backwards but have won a trophy? If that's what people prefer then they've got a different view of football then me.

If we win a trophy then great but I'm not going to judge my enjoyment and success of my club on whether we can win 6 random games in a row against largely lower league opposition.

#trusttheprocess

WiganSpur · Feb 24, 2018

Totally agree with the article.

Though what would be fucking brilliant is to be able to trust the process and take some silverware too, that's where the real satisfaction lies.

I'd love this Spurs team to pick something up soon, I think they deserve it.

Lemon · Feb 24, 2018

I trust the process, but if we are still talking about trusting the process in 24 months, then I'm not sure I'll trust the process as much!

Kane and Eriksen will be very difficult to keep if we've won nothing this season or the next two (to be honest I think we'll need one next season if Harry keeps his goal rate up).

beats1 · Feb 24, 2018

Streetspur77 said:
But what's your definition of failure?

This has been my favourite years following spurs for ages and has given me so many memories/players I'll remember for the rest of my life. Is that a failure?

Alternatively, ask a Wigan, Arsenal or United fan how their recent years have been, all clubs that have clearly not been "following a process" and have all clearly gone backwards but have won a trophy? If that's what people prefer then they've got a different view of football then me.

If we win a trophy then great but I'm not going to judge my enjoyment and success of my club on whether we can win 6 random games in a row against largely lower league opposition.

#trusttheprocess

The point that I was making was that for the 76ers, they went down this "process" in order to win a trophy. As their chances of winning a trophy the traditional way was deemed far less likely to achieve that goal. So its silly using that phrase to talk about valuing style over winning when the process is all about winning.

So for Wigan they may not be in the PL but they did get to achieve success

Personally I view the harry redknapp era as abit of a failure, it was a great time to be a spurs fan but to have Modric, Bale, VDV, King and etc. and not win anything was a bit sad.

I just hope I dont view this era as a missed opportunity to achieve so much more like newcastle in the 90's

riggi · Feb 24, 2018

Remember when we took the piss out of Arsenal for finishing 4th but never actually mounting a proper challenge for the cl? Remember when @Dougal made the empty trophy cabinet picture?

Good times.

slartibartfast · Feb 24, 2018

Trophies dont matter???
Jeez, give me strength.

Doctor Dinkey · Feb 24, 2018

I can't believe that people on here are dissing the FA cup, like we win it every other year.
If we win the FA Cup this year it would be a huge deal for the club, arguably the biggest for 27 years.
I think people try to minimise the importance of trophies to underplay the fact that arsenal have won 3 in 4 years and we hardly ever win anything.
What are the moments fans most remember? It's seeing your captain lift a trophy. If that never happens with the current team, their potential will be unfulfilled. The game is about glory, nothing else.

walworthyid · Feb 24, 2018

Lemon said:
Bit far chap. 3 Trophies in the last 2 seasons, get that you mean if you had to endure their often sterile performances and Mourinho.

Yes that is exactly what I mean. I wouldn't swap our "process" for those 3 trophies. Mourinho is under constant pressure and the team are constantly being criticised for their performances. We also recently brushed that "3 trophies in 2 seasons" team aside like they were nothing.

walworthyid · Feb 24, 2018

Doctor Dinkey said:
I can't believe that people on here are dissing the FA cup, like we win it every other year.
If we win the FA Cup this year it would be a huge deal for the club, arguably the biggest for 27 years.
I think people try to minimise the importance of trophies to underplay the fact that arsenal have won 3 in 4 years and we hardly ever win anything.
What are the moments fans most remember? It's seeing your captain lift a trophy. If that never happens with the current team, their potential will be unfulfilled. The game is about glory, nothing else.

People aren't dissing it, we'll I'm not anyway, I'm saying that I would rather be in our shoes than theirs. And so would they. Yet we have won nothing in that time! Did Arsenal have a good season last year? Did we?

Winning a cup is about one match, the process is about every match. That is what people remember!

Lilbaz · Feb 24, 2018

walworthyid said:
People aren't dissing it, we'll I'm not anyway, I'm saying that I would rather be in our shoes than theirs. And so would they. Yet we have won nothing in that time! Did Arsenal have a good season last year? Did we?

Winning a cup is about one match, the process is about every match. That is what people remember!

If the team we have now with thevway they are playing and poch as our manager had won what utd did last season we would have creamed our pants. It would have gone down as one of the best seasons in our history.

walworthyid · Feb 25, 2018

Lilbaz said:
If the team we have now with thevway they are playing and poch as our manager had won what utd did last season we would have creamed our pants. It would have gone down as one of the best seasons in our history.

Obviously, it isn't "either/or", it is about the perception of a process towards success. But success in a way that is glorious. Arsenal have won something, like Utd, but neither team are perceived to be in a process towards glory. I want us to win, but I want us to do it in style and in the right way.

We feel that this team should win something, but why should they? It is because of the way that we play, because of the way that the club is progressing. It is difficult to argue against the importance of winning as that is ultimately what football and sport generally is about. But Ive played numerous sports competitively and I have always been happier after I have performed well whether I have won or lost. I guess it is about enjoyment but also about the perception that in performing at your best you are getting better and will ultimately get good enough to win. It is somewhat contradictory in that the aim of performing well is to win yet you can win and not perform well!

mattdefoe · Feb 25, 2018

Why not do both? Play well and win trophies.

Why’s is OK to not win anything .. as a fan it’s embarrassing. Isn’t the saying “the game is about glory”.

nightgoat · Feb 25, 2018

Interesting he should cite FourFourTwo's best managers list. Every year they continually underrate Pochettino. A couple of years ago they had him below Bilic. Last year they reasoned having him as low as he was because he hadn't won anything, yet they had Bosz - who also hadn't won anything - several places higher.

Streetspur77 · Feb 25, 2018

Doctor Dinkey said:
I can't believe that people on here are dissing the FA cup, like we win it every other year.
If we win the FA Cup this year it would be a huge deal for the club, arguably the biggest for 27 years.
I think people try to minimise the importance of trophies to underplay the fact that arsenal have won 3 in 4 years and we hardly ever win anything.
What are the moments fans most remember? It's seeing your captain lift a trophy. If that never happens with the current team, their potential will be unfulfilled. The game is about glory, nothing else.

But glory isn't only winning trophies.

Beating Real Madrid is glorious, beating your rivals consistently is glorious, having a youth academy striker become the best in the world is glorious.

No one is saying that we shouldn't win a trophy but just don't let the media and everyone saying "Tottenham are nothing until they win a trophy" temper your enjoyment of just how fucking good we are at the moment, especially considering some of our recent times.

Lilbaz · Feb 25, 2018

Streetspur77 said:
But glory isn't only winning trophies.

Beating Real Madrid is glorious, beating your rivals consistently is glorious, having a youth academy striker become the best in the world is glorious.

No one is saying that we shouldn't win a trophy but just don't let the media and everyone saying "Tottenham are nothing until they win a trophy" temper your enjoyment of just how fucking good we are at the moment, especially considering some of our recent times.

We all know how good we are at the moment. None of us think we are nothing without a trophy. But if this group of players and poch doesn't win anything in the next few year that has to be seen as a failure in part. It will be the first time spurs hasn't won a trophy since the 1930's.

Flashspur · Feb 25, 2018

All of this will be moot when we win the champions league. It’s coming lads. If not this year, then in the next three.

ClonedFromSandrosBeard · Feb 25, 2018

I've said this a few times but I am perfectly happy for my team to play well and win games. If cups come then great, if not, fine. I'd rather watch this team than the 2008 squad that last won us some silverware.

This season has already been a success for me. Poch has turned Wembley into a fortress; Kane has continued to be amazing; Sonny shushing the West Ham fans; Lamela's shit eating grin at Wilshere; we've beaten Real Madrid, utd, liverpol, arsenal and I have a strong feeling we're about to add Juventus to our list.

These are all great memories for me which is what this club is about. Obviously winning a trophy would be another special moment but just one of many.

St José Dominguez · Feb 25, 2018

Seeing Lloris then Kane and Poch lift the FA Cup at Wembley and parade it in celebration in front of us fans would be the biggest high I've had as a Spurs fan in the last 27 years.

This almost acceptance of failure by suggesting it's all about where we're heading towards is tiresome. I want to see this group of players with Poch in charge winning trophies, anything and everything. They deserve it. 2017/18 FA cup winners is a nice little high on this road we are upon.

Coyboy · Feb 25, 2018

I totally agree with the premise of the article and is in tune with this article by Simon Kuprer and that ‘debate’ with Balague, Bellamy and Shreeves on Sky recently.

https://www.ft.com/content/19455408-0b96-11e8-839d-41ca06376bf2

The only trophy I really want to win is the league because it categorically proves you are the best team in the land. It’s the end product of the process. But it’s incredubly hard to do and sustain that process, see the admittedly aberrant Leicester and perennially unstable Chelsea. During both of those seasons, they deserved to win the league and we made mistakes but we were a bit unlucky as Bellamy said given neither team had European football.

Maybe it’s because I’ve seen us win one FA Cup and two league cups, because I’m scarred by God knows how many lost semi finals or probably because winning a domestic cup competition is quite hollow. It’s a great day out, it feels good for a few days but you move on and if moving on doesn’t result in sustainable development (as it didn’t in 1999 or 2008) what’s the point?

I would rather just see us continue to develop. If we win the FA Cup, great. If we win the CL, even better. But I don’t want us to live off those memories à la Leicester, Wigan, Chelsea re the 2012 CL win and even us over the last 50 year’s unless we keep improving.

Ultimately this is the happiest I’ve been supporting Spurs for 28 years and I enjoy watching us play and seeing the club develop. That’s the main reason I follow us, not just to see us lift a trophy.

Lilbaz · Feb 25, 2018

ClonedFromSandrosBeard said:
I've said this a few times but I am perfectly happy for my team to play well and win games. If cups come then great, if not, fine. I'd rather watch this team than the 2008 squad that last won us some silverware.

This season has already been a success for me. Poch has turned Wembley into a fortress; Kane has continued to be amazing; Sonny shushing the West Ham fans; Lamela's shit eating grin at Wilshere; we've beaten Real Madrid, utd, liverpol, arsenal and I have a strong feeling we're about to add Juventus to our list.

These are all great memories for me which is what this club is about. Obviously winning a trophy would be another special moment but just one of many.

I remember the 87 team. Whenever we talk about it we say it was a great team then we add "they should have won something that year".
It is a good memory tinged with a bit of regret. I don't want to be talking in 20 years time about this team with any regrets.

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