Why Trophies don't matter any more

[Gassin's finest]

With regards to conversations about Chelsea and their money buying success, note they were winning trophies for a good half a decade before the Bond villain showed up. Other than Citeh, most teams need to achieve success before the empire is built.

And we see that the odd cup win like Wigan, Pompey etc doesn't guarantee you anything; it is league success that leads to this.

 

[The Apprentice]

The cups that really count as a sign of a great team/manager are the league and the Champs League. Mainly because you have to be consistently excellent for such a long period of time.

Winning domestic cups, whilst good fun, is mainly a lottery of who you draw in the 5/6 games you have to win.

 

[Kiedis]

You can win the odd cup without being a good manager. You can't do what Pochettino has done without being an exceptional manager.

Liverpool fans are feisty these days and will always try and sneak in the "...has Pochettino ever won anything?" line. I tend to lure them into the trap by asking them to mention what they see as their best or most enjoyable season of the later years. They all answer the 13/14 runner up season.

I've yet to come across anyone that mentions the season where Dalglish won the league cup and finished 8th.

That is, of course, more of a rhetorical point. But many of the people and pundits that go on about "Spurs need to win something" talk as if the domestic cups hold the same weight they did in the 80s. I think finishing 3rd and going out in the QF of the CL holds more weight for the players these days than winning a domestic cup, even if they probably wont admit it.

 

[slartibartfast]

Sorrry but for me having long term 'success' (by playing well but having nothing to show for it at the end of it) IS failure.
If this current squad and manager fell away over the next few seasons and we never won anything it would be criminal.
Whats the bloody point if we never win anything?
Yes its 'nice' to beat Real Madrid and get great results in these one off games but I can only think the reason some people are viewing these games and our current predicament on the same level as lifting a trophy is because it's been so long since we lifted one they've forgotten what it feels like.
You cannot compare lifting the League Cup against Chelsea to beating RM or just doing well in the league, being nice on the eye.
It was the best day as a Spurs fan in almost decades unfortunately.
I bought the DVD. I was dancing around the place with a big fkin grin on my face for weeks.
I had a T-shirt ripping the piss out of Chelsea.
Now maybe I'm old fashioned but there's no way I got the same buzz out of our recent 'success' and history will not remember what a good team we were unless we get something to show for it.
Christ its what the game is all about.
We sound like bloody Wenger, '4th place is a trophy.' NO ITS NOT. THAT IS NOT SUCCESS. Its an achievement but thats all it is, as is beating RM, Inter, etc.
When, please God, when we lift the FA Cup I think a lot of people here will look back at their views here and think 'yeah, I was talking bollocks. That was fkin awesome' through their tears of pride and joy.


This post is also available in paperback from all shite book shops.

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

Blame it on the goldfish attention span of the younger members of society, formented by our education system, tv and the technology corporations.

TLDR

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

That was fkin awesome' through their tears of pride and joy..

I've seen us win several FA Cups. Never shed a tear. I'm a bad man

 

[slartibartfast]

Is it a younger generation mentality thing?
Those who've been raised in this PC world (not the shops) of 'its the taking part that counts and winning isnt everything'?
Just asking.
Sounds to me like they're trying to convince themselves as much as others.

 

[slartibartfast]

I've seen us win several FA Cups. Never shed a tear. I'm a bad man

Ole Iron Balls lol

 

[dontcallme]

Football had undoubtedly changed.

I believe the prize money for winning the FA cup used to be on par with the league. Therefore the prestige of winning it was high.

There is no denying that players want to play for a team finishing top 4 and playing CL over whoever won last season’s FA cup.

But at the same time trophies are important. People saying trophies are everything or top 4 four is everything are both wrong.

The world is not that black and white.

 

[slartibartfast]

Football had undoubtedly changed.

I believe the prize money for winning the FA cup used to be on par with the league. Therefore the prestige of winning it was high.

There is no denying that players want to play for a team finishing top 4 and playing CL over whoever won last season’s FA cup.

But at the same time trophies are important. People saying trophies are everything or top 4 four is everything are both wrong.

The world is not that black and white.

You also have to take into account the number of foreign players compared to years ago.
Obviously for them domestic Cups do not hold as much regard as they do for British players.
But for fans or some of us, they do.
I agree with the last part.
Winning a domestic cup with a lucky run and the disappearing for ten years is not better or worse than playing at a high level consistently.
The problem we have compared to the other top 6 teams is we dont pay the money.
This can lead to players, even the manager leaving.
Those teams know that while they may have the odd blip the money they invest WILL lead to the odd peice of silverware here and there.
I think a lot of fans are worried the wheels might fall off and we'll have nothing to show for it despite having one of the best squads and coaches in the league.
So while we're doing well we need to strike while the irons hot otherwise we may be waiting another 10 years.

 

[Mullers]

The title of this thread is Why trophies don't matter anymore. Not why the FA Cup, League cup or Europa cup don't matter anymore.

People who say those trophies are not important would definitely admit that the league and Champions league trophies are important and winning them would change our profile as a club, therefore winning trophies does matter.

 

[14/04/91]

We could win the FA Cup by beating Wimbledon, Newport, Rochdale, Sheff W, Wigan & Brighton.

Would that be considered a greater achievement than challenging for the title in consecutive seasons? And (hopefully) 3 consecutive CL qualifications against the odds?

I would argue not. We all WANT to win trophies but improvement is more important, imo.

 

[Mullers]

We could win the FA Cup by beating Wimbledon, Newport, Rochdale, Sheff W, Wigan & Brighton.

Would that be considered a greater achievement than challenging for the title in consecutive seasons? And (hopefully) 3 consecutive CL qualifications against the odds?

I would argue not. We all WANT to win trophies but improvement is more important, imo.

We came second in the league last season, the only way to improve, is win it.

 

[beats1]

I've said this a few times but I am perfectly happy for my team to play well and win games. If cups come then great, if not, fine. I'd rather watch this team than the 2008 squad that last won us some silverware.

This season has already been a success for me. Poch has turned Wembley into a fortress; Kane has continued to be amazing; Sonny shushing the West Ham fans; Lamela's shit eating grin at Wilshere; we've beaten Real Madrid, utd, liverpol, arsenal and I have a strong feeling we're about to add Juventus to our list.

These are all great memories for me which is what this club is about. Obviously winning a trophy would be another special moment but just one of many.

I know a lot of people look back at that period as a bad time but for me I loved spurs at that period and gave me more moments of glory than any other period as a spurs fan

Beating Chelsea 2-1 at the lane for the first time in years
Beating Arsenal 5-1
Winning Carling Cup
Beating West Ham 4-3
Not to mention the amazing comebacks to draw at the time like against chelsea, arsenal and etc.

We have some moments now like beating chelsea, Liverpool and Man city but our team is much better now

 

[Thewobbler]

Ridiculous.

You have to win trophies or your just making up the numbers.

CL nights are great and so are big wins against the best but thats not glory.

 

[riggi]

This thread is to make us feel ok when arsenal win a cup later and Liverpool win the cl

 

[Lilbaz]

With regards to conversations about Chelsea and their money buying success, note they were winning trophies for a good half a decade before the Bond villain showed up. Other than Citeh, most teams need to achieve success before the empire is built.

And we see that the odd cup win like Wigan, Pompey etc doesn't guarantee you anything; it is league success that leads to this.

And that was because of huge investment by harding, when he died they almost went into administration.

 

[beats1]

With regards to conversations about Chelsea and their money buying success, note they were winning trophies for a good half a decade before the Bond villain showed up. Other than Citeh, most teams need to achieve success before the empire is built.

And we see that the odd cup win like Wigan, Pompey etc doesn't guarantee you anything; it is league success that leads to this.

But surely leicester and blackburn are proof of that not being true?

 

[Gassin's finest]

And that was because of huge investment by harding, when he died they almost went into administration.

I'd say it was more Hoddle's influence in getting players like Gullitt and Vialli in.

 

[Gassin's finest]

But surely leicester and blackburn are proof of that not being true?

Ironically Blackburn were a side that did buy the Premiership...