Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Bluto Blutarsky · Jan 4, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
I’ve re-linked it mate. Really good article tbh. Scroll down and first one on the right.

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Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

Snarfalicious · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

Yeah, I honestly think, as lame as it sounds to say, we just generally have had bad luck/fluke type injuries. You can’t really do anything about those. I also thought VDV’s injury could be attributed somewhat to that long pause for the VAR Check and then the subsequent sprint. I do think this will only make the squad stronger mentally having come through it generally okay, so if that’s the payoff in the end, saylavee.

Styopa · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

Snarfalicious said:
Yeah, I honestly think, as lame as it sounds to say, we just generally have had bad luck/fluke type injuries. You can’t really do anything about those. I also thought VDV’s injury could be attributed somewhat to that long pause for the VAR Check and then the subsequent sprint. I do think this will only make the squad stronger mentally having come through it generally okay, so if that’s the payoff in the end, saylavee.

I think it’s unlucky that we have had so many injuries at the same time, but most of the players injured are injury prone or have had similar injuries in the past. Romero and VdV, Maddison, Bissouma, Bentancur. These are not new problems this season for these guys. They have all had similarly lengthy lay offs in previous seasons due to injuries.

SpursSince1980 · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

The stupid article is a headline in search of a story. I would like to think a journalist at this level can make a more objective distinction, but that’s boring and boring don’t sell.

djhotspur · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

Also, VDV and Romero had muscle issues before ange.

RELISYS · Jan 4, 2024

Trix said:
Perhaps I'm being a bit too critical about this but a lot of that is down to the fact I hear how others are frustrated by it so I know it's becoming an issue. When you have youth team coaches and youth players agents saying it there is clearly a problem somewhere. Whether people on here think it's justified or not, it is a thing. I just don't want to see all the brilliant work FP and his team have put into completely revolutionising the youth system go to shit and back to where it was. It's took a lot of blood, sweat, tears and schmoozing to get this academy back to being competitive and it'd be a real shame if it went back to how it was previous.

So if I have an agenda that is it.

That however is nothing to do with my issue of how we defend at times and is a separate issue entirely.

You never seemed to concerned about Conte using the players in the youth academy. The majority of our talented youth players where here under Conte.

Do you think Conte should have used the academy players in the same way you believe Postecoglou should?

Timbo Tottenham · Jan 4, 2024

This thread has turned into a youth/let’s see if we can trip anyone up on their stance based on opinions of previous manager’s thread.

Any chance we could take those discussions to the youth thread/specific ex-manager thread? There’s been pages of it now and it’s going round in circles.

Trix · Jan 4, 2024

RELISYS said:
You never seemed to concerned about Conte using the players in the youth academy. The majority of our talented youth players where here under Conte.

Do you think Conte should have used the academy players in the same way you believe Postecoglou should?

Again for the umpteenth and honestly last time(some will be happy)........

The quality wasn't there in the Under 21's like it has been this year and those players who are excelling are another year on in their development from last. Also we hadn't purposely bought in players like Phillips and made promises to get him, and most importantly we didn't have half the squad decimated by injuries to a point we were playing 2 sodding full backs at CB and players the manager wants gone. If we had a fully fit squad I wouldn't be calling for it, and the players themselves wouldn't feel as confused and disgruntled about the situation.

It really is a completely different set of circumstances.

TOLBINY · Jan 4, 2024

RELISYS said:
You never seemed to concerned about Conte using the players in the youth academy. The majority of our talented youth players where here under Conte.

Do you think Conte should have used the academy players in the same way you believe Postecoglou should?

The situation now is that the club hierachy have finally admitted (having led us to beleive for years that once we get a new bigger stadium we can compete financially with the big boys) that we have to operate differently from the big boys (one reason why Levy also admitted that appointing win now managers was perhaps a wrong thing to do).

So one way we can operate differenly (ie within our means) is to blood players from the academy earlier than we do. If we hit the jackpot that's great, if not, at least we know and we can discard and move on. In addition, if younger players and their advisers can see that at least if you join Tottenham you will get a real chance to prove yourself, that might just sway some youngsters to come to us.

The ITK we have been getting recently is that some academy players are a bit miffed at not being given an opportunity in the first team, and once we have a fully fit squad again, I don't see the likes of Dorrington, Donely and maybe even Phillips (if we sign a CH) even getting on the bench much at all.

We are likely going to be paying 25 - 30M for a CH, but none of us know if Phillips (I realsie he is not from our academy) or Dorrington can perform well at this level becuase we haven't even tried them. When we went 5-1 up at Burnley I was screaming for Phillips (who was on the bench) to be given 20+ minutes, there was no great risk to the three points, but it didn't happen.

I accept we want to win every game we play, and blooding youngsters is a risk, but buying a Romainian centre half from Italy is also a risk (not suggesting we shouldn't do it) becuase he has never lived in the UK or played in the Prem.

olithfc · Jan 4, 2024

TOLBINY said:
The situation now is that the club hierachy have finally admitted (having led us to beleive for years that once we get a new bigger stadium we can compete financially with the big boys) that we have to operate differently from the big boys (one reason why Levy also admitted that appointing win now managers was perhaps a wrong thing to do).

So one way we can operate differenly (ie within our means) is to blood players from the academy earlier than we do. If we hit the jackpot that's great, if not, at least we know and we can discard and move on. In addition, if younger players and their advisers can see that at least if you join Tottenham you will get a real chance to prove yourself, that might just sway some youngsters to come to us.

The ITK we have been getting recently is that some academy players are a bit miffed at not being given an opportunity in the first team, and once we have a fully fit squad again, I don't see the likes of Dorrington, Donely and maybe even Phillips (if we sign a CH) even getting on the bench much at all.

We are likely going to be paying 25 - 30M for a CH, but none of us know if Phillips (I realsie he is not from our academy) or Dorrington can perform well at this level becuase we haven't even tried them. When we went 5-1 up at Burnley I was screaming for Phillips (who was on the bench) to be given 20+ minutes, there was no great risk to the three points, but it didn't happen.

I accept we want to win every game we play, and blooding youngsters is a risk, but buying a Romainian centre half from Italy is also a risk (not suggesting we shouldn't do it) becuase he has never lived in the UK or played in the Prem.

Is 20 mins here or there better than a season on loan in the championship playing every week?

Wick3d · Jan 4, 2024

Trix said:
Again for the umpteenth and honestly last time(some will be happy)........

The quality wasn't there in the Under 21's like it has been this year and those players who are excelling are another year on in their development from last. Also we hadn't purposely bought in players like Phillips and made promises to get him, and most importantly we didn't have half the squad decimated by injuries to a point we were playing 2 sodding full backs at CB and players the manager wants gone. If we had a fully fit squad I wouldn't be calling for it, and the players themselves wouldn't feel as confused and disgruntled about the situation.

It really is a completely different set of circumstances.

It is a losing battle and not worth the faff. Make the point, and just move on. Some people love to go around in circles as they enjoy being argumentative. :LOL:

dontcallme · Jan 4, 2024

Wick3d said:
It is a losing battle and not worth the faff. Make the point, and just move on. Some people love to go around in circles as they enjoy being argumentative.

No we don't.

TOLBINY · Jan 4, 2024

olithfc said:
Is 20 mins here or there better than a season on loan in the championship playing every week?

Personally I prefer to see players play in the division we want them to play in, ie The Prem, and with players of the standard they would be playing with if they were in our first team, otherwise there may be mitigating circumstances as to why they have not performed well - certain positions like a striker will rely on the quality of the service they receive.

My reference to 20+ minutes was becuase we scored our 5th goal in the 66th minute against Burnley, so that was a good opportunity to bring Phillips on.

There is a school of thought that suggests blooding youngsters too early could destroy their confidence if things go wrong, I have always believed that the most consistent players are those with the highest self confidence, and it is no surprise to me that we are hearing more and more that Ange is interested in a players chararcter as much as anything.

Take two players with the same ability, one with low self confidence and one with high slef confidence and IMHO the one with high self confidence will outperform the other.

Having said all that, I take your point, it is not possible / practical to give all our academy players sufficient first team game time to prove themsleves, and meaningful loans are the next best option.

Locotoro · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

The idea that Anges system is causing injuries is ridiculous.

Any journalist with half a brain would take a step back and look at the injury crisis ravaging the entire premier league right now. Almost half the clubs are experiencing some sort of injury curse at the moment. Our club isn't even the worst affected.

Liamyid28 · Jan 4, 2024

Pray to god Phillips or Dorrington get some minutes tomorrow otherwise this thread could just turn into a thread about Ange playing kids

spurs9 · Jan 4, 2024

Liamyid28 said:
Pray to god Phillips or Dorrington get some minutes tomorrow otherwise this thread could just turn into a thread about Ange playing kids

If he does play them, the narrative will be that he isn't taking the cup seriously. You can't please everyone and I just hope we win.

Misfit · Jan 4, 2024

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Not sure its a really good article - when it attempts to link all of the injury issues to Ange's balls.

Richarlison - not an system injury
Maddison - not a system injury
Solomon - not a system injury
Perisic - not a system injury
Sarr - passed fit for AFCON
Lo Celso - no indication his injuries were related to over-use.

Basically it comes down to a question about VdV, and maybe Romero, though I thought there was more to Romero's injury from a collision than just having a muscle fatigue injury.

Udogie and Porro and Kulusevski - are all putting in the work, with distance and sprints. Son has lots of sprints. Richarlison does a lot of short bursts. Bissouma maybe fewer sprints but still intense workload in matches. Davies has played the same CB role as VdV and Romero. Royal has as well, albeit fewer minutes.

Oh come on now. GLC was injury free until Ange arrived. He's ruined him...

Beautiful Yetta · Jan 4, 2024

Tanganga made the step-up to the first team after ten years in the academy with an excellent debut; so much so that Mourinho's post-game press interview was centered around not wanting to speak of new players (it was mid-winter window), but instead of how he now had Tanganga as a 'new signing'. We didn't get anyone else in at the back that window and so played on with the aged Verts / Toby partnership, Dier, Sanchez (who he famously didn't rate), and now Tanganga.

Of course it came to pass that Japhet never delivered on that promise and Rodon, for half a year, was all the new blood that Mourinho was given at the back until his sacking. In hindsight, had he not given Tanganga that mid-window chance, perhaps he would have done better convincing the club to buy the centre-back he needed to hang his hat on.

I'm happy for Ange to play his hand how he sees fit.

Gassin's finest · Jan 4, 2024

Locotoro said:
The idea that Anges system is causing injuries is ridiculous.

Any journalist with half a brain would take a step back and look at the injury crisis ravaging the entire premier league right now. Almost half the clubs are experiencing some sort of injury curse at the moment. Our club isn't even the worst affected.

I don't think it's any coincidence that referees no longer protect players, and just hide behind var decisions, and there being so many bad challenges and injuries this season.

For the love of Spurs · Jan 4, 2024

Beautiful Yetta said:
Tanganga made the step-up to the first team after ten years in the academy with an excellent debut; so much so that Mourinho's post-game press interview was centered around not wanting to speak of new players (it was mid-winter window), but instead of how he now had Tanganga as a 'new signing'. We didn't get anyone else in at the back that window and so played on with the aged Verts / Toby partnership, Dier, Sanchez (who he famously didn't rate), and now Tanganga.

Of course it came to pass that Japhet never delivered on that promise and Rodon, for half a year, was all the new blood that Mourinho was given at the back until his sacking. In hindsight, had he not given Tanganga that mid-window chance, perhaps he would have done better convincing the club to buy the centre-back he needed to hang his hat on.

I'm happy for Ange to play his hand how he sees fit.

Of course we should leave space for our young players to come through but as with your examples doesn’t always work.

Looking at our youth set up we have Veliz as striker, then in the number 10 Maddison role we have Donley and Mikey Moore, then in defence we have Dorrington, Philips and Vuskovic.

We have been linked with Nusa a winger and Vermeeren a deep lying play maker. Not sure we have any young players coming through who are good enough who would be denied an opportunity with these signings, perhaps Tyrese Hall?

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