A question of the CM2

[Lilbaz]

This is a crucial point: we should not be playing Dier in games where we expect to pin back the opposition. We saw that against Qarabag.

Why? He can defend and attack. He also has goals in him.

Agree that he should be rested at times and the easier teams would be a good opportunity, just don't think playing him reduces our attack rather than say playing bentaleb.

 

[Mullers]

Agreed he's not my first pick for that role either but he is a useful squad player who could add some physicality high up the pitch

We need more than that, we need players with drive, with fire who want to succeed in order to have a winners mentality. Dembele just doesn't have that in his locker, I saw an interview in his first season, he was well aware of what he had to do to take himself to the next level. Someone like Mason has less talent and ability but because of his fire and his mentality to improve he has succeeded.

 

[JayB]

Dier has been excellent, but we are still in need of another DM to compete/rotate with him. As other have mentioned we'd be well and truly f***ed if we were to lose him to injury. When the squad is fully fit, both Dembele and Carroll will almost certainly be well down the pecking order at both CM and AM. We should be looking to sell them both in January in order to free up squad places and provide the funds to recruit a young DM to provide that much needed backup option IMO.

 

[Lilbaz]

Dier has been excellent, but we are still in need of another DM to compete/rotate with him. As other have mentioned we'd be well and truly f***ed if we were to lose him to injury. When the squad is fully fit, both Dembele and Carroll will almost certainly be well down the pecking order at both CM and AM. We should be looking to sell them both in January in order to free up squad places and provide the funds to recruit a young DM to provide that much needed backup option IMO.

We wouldn't be well and truly fucked if he got injured. Bentaleb and Mason were good enough to get us 5th last season. We might be weaker but a long way from fucked.

 

[JayB]

We wouldn't be well and truly fucked if he got injured. Bentaleb and Mason were good enough to get us 5th last season. We might be weaker but a long way from fucked.

We picked up a lot of very fortunate points last year and the mid table clubs are a lot stronger now than they were then. Don't forget that we had one of the worst defensive records in the league last season, something we've managed to completely reverse with Dier shielding the back line. Poch has changed the way we set up with Dier dropping into a back 3 when the FBs push forward. While Toby proved he could do a job as a DM at Southampton, I don't know whether Poch would be willing to have him take on a new role so early into his time with us -- if not, we'd have to revert to last season's tactics. In other words, at least defensively, we'd be well and truly fucked.

 

[tooey]

I think people are being a bit harsh on Dembele here. Whilst he's not English or from our academy he has given a good account of himself in his limited game time so far, he was also fantastic for periods last year and can play in the cm 2 or the cam 3. I (only opinion here) would consider selling Carroll and loaning out Winks and keeping Dembele as back up, he is proven PL quality and on his day is unplayable (all to rare in a Spurs shirt, granted).

 

[Lilbaz]

We picked up a lot of very fortunate points last year and the mid table clubs are a lot stronger now than they were then. Don't forget that we had one of the worst defensive records in the league last season, something we've managed to completely reverse with Dier shielding the back line. Poch has changed the way we set up with Dier dropping into a back 3 when the FBs push forward. While Toby proved he could do a job as a DM at Southampton, I don't know whether Poch would be willing to have him take on a new role so early into his time with us -- if not, we'd have to revert to last season's tactics. In other words, at least defensively, we'd be well and truly fucked.

Our defence is stronger than last season. Our midfield dier aside is stronger than last season and so is our attack. To say we would be well and truly fucked if dier got injured is over dramatacism.

 

[JayB]

Our defence is stronger than last season. Our midfield dier aside is stronger than last season and so is our attack. To say we would be well and truly fucked if dier got injured is over dramatacism.

Again, unless TA slotted in there an injury to Dier would necessitate completely changing our tactics. I don't think it's overly dramatic to suggest that reverting to a setup which resulted in us absolutely leaking goals last season would leave us fucked. Son admittedly works harder for the team than does Chadli, and Alderweireld is vastly superior to Fazio, but a midfield consisting of two of Mason, Bentaleb and Alli would still leave us quite open at the back. Do you honestly think we don't need a player to rotate with Dier?

 

[Lilbaz]

Again, unless TA slotted in there an injury to Dier would necessitate completely changing our tactics. I don't think it's overly dramatic to suggest that reverting to a setup which resulted in us absolutely leaking goals last season would leave us fucked. Son admittedly works harder for the team than does Chadli, and Alderweireld is vastly superior to Fazio, but a midfield consisting of two of Mason, Bentaleb and Alli would still leave us quite open at the back. Do you honestly think we don't need a player to rotate with Dier?

No i think that you underestimate the ability of some of our players and the fact that they can adapt. How many people said that dier can't play dm?

 

[JayB]

No i think that you underestimate the ability of some of our players and the fact that they can adapt. How many people said that dier can't play dm?

Who would slot in there other than TA? Bentaleb I suppose possesses the attributes to play DM in a pinch, but he repeatedly makes lazy passes that put the defense under pressure. I for one would not be comfortable with him playing the crucial role of shielding the back line, which is central to how we set up now, for any prolonged period of time.

In attacking midfield, both Dembele and Carroll are behind Son, Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, and Chadli, competing with the likes of Njie, Townsend, and Pritchard just to get a look in in cup matches. Likewise, they're both behind Alli, Mason, and Bentaleb in the competition to partner Dier in central midfield. They're blatantly surplus to requirements and the squad would have greater balance if we were to sell them and bring in a rotation option at DM.

We're getting a bit off topic here though, so getting back to the original question I think we have to retain Alli in the side given the form he's in. Mason was playing exceptionally well prior to his injury but I just don't see Alli being dropped at the moment. Between the league and the EL we've got plenty of fixtures, so everyone should get plenty of chances to stake their claim to the first XI.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Dier and bentaleb could be a great pairing too. I know bentaleb has been injured a while, and had a suspect start to the season, but no one can deny there is a quality player there with great potential.

 

[Spurs-USA]

Lots of good options in midfield. Huge fan of Alli's versatility, and I would keep him in the team for at least the near future.

I'm a big fan of Bentaleb as well and think he has plenty of ability when at full strength. That said, I'm concerned if we become too reliant on Dier in the DM role. Reminds me of '11/12 when Scott Parker was run into the ground by the final months of the season. Dier is obviously younger (and looks better), but still would like to see a rotation of some kind when possible.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Dier has been excellent, but we are still in need of another DM to compete/rotate with him. As other have mentioned we'd be well and truly f***ed if we were to lose him to injury. When the squad is fully fit, both Dembele and Carroll will almost certainly be well down the pecking order at both CM and AM. We should be looking to sell them both in January in order to free up squad places and provide the funds to recruit a young DM to provide that much needed backup option IMO.

Milos. Look no further. Very good young player who captained his country to the u 20 World Cup win this year. No need to be looking elsewhere for a young back up DM cum CB.

 

[THOWIG]

It's just great to have options.

 

[lol]

we saw how potent our attack can be when we have a CDM covering for the more attacking cm to push forward. dele alli and mason are both miles better than dembele in the department, no question. bentaleb and him are neck and neck in this department, both have flashes of brilliance but dembele is definitely more of a passenger than bentaleb based on what we saw last season and bentaleb has a much higher ceiling to improve.

so technically dembele is competing with little tom for the 4th spot for the more attacking cm role.

then we come to the cdm role. dier, bonafide first choice. 2nd choice ryan mason whos better than dembele in every department except that bit of body strength. little tom is out of the equation so once again its bentaleb vs dembele for the 3rd cdm spot.

so to put it bluntly we have an injury prone 28 yr old midfielder, whos not that good going forward, not a very good passer to surge us forward, cant really score, can kinda tackle but not his forte, having significantly higher wages than our youths, competing to be the 3rd/4th choice for our cm2 option.

i see no reason to keep him because the more we keep him the lower his value is going to get.i much rather sell him, and buy an experience CDM to mentor dier and be his back up. an Inler, cambiasso, would be so much better than having dembele just rotting on our bench. sell him, get some money back, move on

 

[Makkaveli101]

we saw how potent our attack can be when we have a CDM covering for the more attacking cm to push forward. dele alli and mason are both miles better than dembele in the department, no question. bentaleb and him are neck and neck in this department, both have flashes of brilliance but dembele is definitely more of a passenger than bentaleb based on what we saw last season and bentaleb has a much higher ceiling to improve.

so technically dembele is competing with little tom for the 4th spot for the more attacking cm role.

then we come to the cdm role. dier, bonafide first choice. 2nd choice ryan mason whos better than dembele in every department except that bit of body strength. little tom is out of the equation so once again its bentaleb vs dembele for the 3rd cdm spot.

so to put it bluntly we have an injury prone 28 yr old midfielder, whos not that good going forward, not a very good passer to surge us forward, cant really score, can kinda tackle but not his forte, having significantly higher wages than our youths, competing to be the 3rd/4th choice for our cm2 option.

i see no reason to keep him because the more we keep him the lower his value is going to get.i much rather sell him, and buy an experience CDM to mentor dier and be his back up. an Inler, cambiasso, would be so much better than having dembele just rotting on our bench. sell him, get some money back, move on

I have to agree. Whilst I enjoyed Dembele in the AM role and the odd flashes of class - at 28 he could now be moved on for a decent-ish fee.

I would also like to see an experienced DM added to the squad. Someone that can come in and do a job when required, to take the heat off Dier a little.

 

[Mr Pink]

Agreed he's not my first pick for that role either but he is a useful squad player who could add some physicality high up the pitch

Exactly.

To rule him out as a decent option, particularly further up the pitch, is silly really.

At the very least he'll be good for some rotation and a decent tactical selection away from home, or to bring on to try and see out a result.

 

[ultimateloner]

This is the strength and 'like to haves' of our CMs:

Mason Strength
High stamina/tries to get forward/decent passing range/willingness to put a foot in/consistent

Mason weakness
Composure in front of goal/not great on the ball/uncreative

Bentalab Strength
Best passing range/accuracy of our CMs; best long shot/most creative/decent on the ball

Bentalab weaknesses
Concentration/rarely gets forward/has not performed since signing contract

Ali Strength
High stamina/tries to get forward/likes to dribble

Alli weakness
Gives the ball away

Dier strength
Aerial attack/defence from CM/high stamina/recovers ball higher up the pitch

Dier weakness
Most limited passing range/not comfortable on the ball under pressure

I think if Bentalab gets back on form our best combo against teams that park the bus is Mason/Bentalab.
If we were to play counter attack its Mason/Dier.
I think we have been lucky that our opponents haven't decided to put someone specifically on Dier; if they do I think we would have trouble playing our game.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

What I would be interested to see, is the debate around who would people like to see as the main CM2 pairing. After a stellar performance by Alli and Dier today it makes for an interesting conundrum for Poch, when the likes of Mason, Bentaleb and Dembele are back to full fitness.

Personally, i would like to see Mason restored along side Dier. Mason perhaps offering more going forwards. Which will be hugely effective along side Dier, giving the front 3 more support.

But where does this leave an in form Bentaleb? Or Dembele? Especially considering the likes of Carroll and Winks breathing down their necks for playing time.

A lot will depend on tired legs and players filling in. But what about tactically? Would the CM2 need changing depending on the opposition? Perhaps we should have a more attacking CM2 for the games against the likes of Stoke, who park the bus. Mason / Alli?

Dier and Bentaleb will rotate, Alli and Mason will rotate.

Dembele will be sold in January.

 

[JerryGarcia]

It's funny reading how many of our opponents fans think our midfield options are poor, probably because they've not heard of them before as they're not big names yet. It makes it so much sweeter when we destroy them like yesterday.