After all they are coachable

[sloth]

What do you mean by the league table doesn't lie.? There may be something lost in translation cause I think sometimes it does.

If coming top is the best you can do and coming bottom the worst, then the best team in the league is the one that finishes first and the worst the one which finishes last.

This season we've been poor. I believe we're better than most of the teams above us and that when it all comes out in the wash we'll be eighth or thereabouts. That will mean we were the eighth best team this season. It will of course make no reference to the different managers, the bad luck, the injuries and the cock-ups by the board, but it will take all of those into account.

I believe we're the fifth best team in the country and with the right coach can challenge for the Premiership. That we've done so poorly this season despite this potential is down to all sorts of reasons but ultimately it's imo due to Jol.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

If coming top is the best you can do and coming bottom the worst, then the best team in the league is the one that finishes first and the worst the one which finishes last.

This season we've been poor. I believe we're better than most of the teams above us and that when it all comes out in the wash we'll be eighth or thereabouts. That will mean we were the eighth best team this season. It will of course make no reference to the different managers, the bad luck, the injuries and the cock-ups by the board, but it will take all of those into account.

I believe we're the fifth best team in the country and with the right coach can challenge for the Premiership. That we've done so poorly this season despite this potential is down to all sorts of reasons but ultimately it's imo due to Jol.

Did finishing 5th two seasons running have anything to do with Jol?

 

[sloth]

[/b]Did finishing 5th two seasons running have anything to do with Jol?

Absolutely.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Absolutely.

Correct. :wink:

 

[Locotoro]

I think there are a lot of reasons we were not performing they way we should have been.

I was a Jol fan, but I dont buy into this "situation made his work unstable" malarkey for one second. The bad results started before any of the speculation concerning Ramos. Sunderland, and the manner in which we lost to everton were not any different to the way we played against Arsenal at home, Newcastle Getafe or Blackburn.

Jol had built a team around a playmaker without having a playmaker (ie carrick). The team played some good football but I dont think we had a distinct style. So we were didnt really have a game plan or a system of play that would become second nature to the players. A possible reason why we couldnt beat the top 4. We also played very slowly and our attacks hardly had any momentum which is why we could never close out teams because we could not counter effectively.

Ramos on the other hand has improved our fitness levels and tactical awareness. I have been told that his scouting of opposition has become almost a fine art. He identifies all the players strengths and weaknesses in the opposition's team and ensures each player studies these.

He not only gets a team playing effective, efficient counter attacking football. He also knows how to play anti-football (now its not what you may think it is ie boring football, but simply he can arrange a team so that the opposition cannot play to their strengths). We have seen this in the matches against Man city, Portsmouth and Arsenal.

I am 100% sure that he will have us playing the type of counter-attacking football that Arsenal have been famous for over the last few years by the middle of next season at the latest. Plus a cohesive defensive unit that closes down the opposition and doesnt allow them time to breathe let alone pass the ball.

Only difference between us and arsenal will be that we will attack on the wings whilst arsenal usually attack through the middle.

But it all stems from fitness levels and mental conditioning which is what we have to be patient for.

 

[sloth]

I think there are a lot of reasons we were not performing they way we should have been.

I was a Jol fan, but I dont buy into this "situation made his work unstable" malarkey for one second. The bad results started before any of the speculation concerning Ramos. Sunderland, and the manner in which we lost to everton were not any different to the way we played against Arsenal at home, Newcastle Getafe or Blackburn.

In fact many argue they begun last season.

Ramos on the other hand has improved our fitness levels and tactical awareness. I have been told that his scouting of opposition has become almost a fine art. He identifies all the players strengths and weaknesses in the opposition's team and ensures each player studies these.

Very subjective I know and it will get up people's noses, but this is why I think Jol will never be a top tier manager. He's not a student of the game, or rather he's not fanatical about preperation. He comes across as a big picture man and let the details look after themselves.

He not only gets a team playing effective, efficient counter attacking football. He also knows how to play anti-football (now its not what you may think it is ie boring football, but simply he can arrange a team so that the opposition cannot play to their strengths). We have seen this in the matches against Man city, Portsmouth and Arsenal.

I hope you're right about this. It's one thing Jol's teams could never be accused of (sadly).

I am 100% sure that he will have us playing the type of counter-attacking football that Arsenal have been famous for over the last few years by the middle of next season at the latest. Plus a cohesive defensive unit that closes down the opposition and doesnt allow them time to breathe let alone pass the ball.

Only difference between us and arsenal will be that we will attack on the wings whilst arsenal usually attack through the middle.

But it all stems from fitness levels and mental conditioning which is what we have to be patient for.

Again, I hope you're right. I completely agree that we'll have to wait to next season to see the effects of Ramos' regime. That we've seen an improvement this year is a bonus, but it always struck me that the Spaniard's method was a great deal about fitness and conditioning. A full off season should do wonders for the squad and it's also why I disagree with Joey that he'll be looking to sign a host of players. I think we'll see the normal off-season strengthening, but nothing spectacular or out of the ordinary. After all Ramos was reportedly a big fan of the likes of Chimbonda and Zokora when he was at Sevilla, two of SC's best love-to-hates.

 

[striebs]

On the evidence of leaking 4 goals against Reading our keeper , defenders and defensive midfield do not seem to have benefited from the coaching .

Defensively it was not a lot different from the 4-4 against Villa .

 

[DoublePivot]

Well at least we didn't give up another set piece against Villa.

Can't teach a stupid dog a new trick or anything whatsoever. They need to implement an aptitude test for signings. If you get below over a 2 out of 100 then you are smarter that the retards we have signed and can be considered. If you score a 1, then you probably already play for us or your name is Wayne Rooney.

 

[Juande_Ramos]

They are coachable but up to a certain limit, or maybe they suffered a relapse :grin:.

 

[yanno]

They are coachable but up to a certain limit, or maybe they suffered a relapse :grin:.

The first thing Juande has to do is nominate a defensive leader/organizer to make sure the man-for-man organisation at set pieces is not totally and utterly insane (as per O'Hara on Laursen).

 

[striebs]

They are coachable but up to a certain limit, or maybe they suffered a relapse :grin:.

I think Gus was trying to tell us that they have reached their "potential" and that it's time to bring some proper players in

 

[Juande_Ramos]

The first thing Juande has to do is nominate a defensive leader/organizer to make sure the man-for-man organisation at set pieces is not totally and utterly insane (as per O'Hara on Laursen).

That was a strange one. it is not only the difference in size but the fact that O'Hara looked clueless as of what to do. There are some short players who are very good in the air, but it doesn;t look like O'Hara is one of those. In their first goal I was also amused at what Boateng was trying to do. I still don't get it.

 

[yanno]

In their first goal I was also amused at what Boateng was trying to do. I still don't get it.

It was Dawson who was most at fault, trying to hold the line and then completely failing to mark Melberg. Boateng kept with his man but misjudged the flight of the ball.

Boateng made an honest mistake; Dawson made a decision a schoolboy would be chastised for.

 

[SpurSince57]

That was a strange one. it is not only the difference in size but the fact that O'Hara looked clueless as of what to do. There are some short players who are very good in the air, but it doesn;t look like O'Hara is one of those. In their first goal I was also amused at what Boateng was trying to do. I still don't get it.

I was deeply unamused by his clumsy and unnecessary foul to give away a free kick in a dangerous position in the first place.

 

[Legend10]

That was a strange one. it is not only the difference in size but the fact that O'Hara looked clueless as of what to do. There are some short players who are very good in the air, but it doesn;t look like O'Hara is one of those. In their first goal I was also amused at what Boateng was trying to do. I still don't get it.

He made the age old mistake of getting himself in a position where he could only see his man and not the ball. By the time he realised where the ball was he'd got himself underneath it and pretty much run into the back of dawson.

It was very poor defending from both Dawson and Boateng.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Bump :razz: