All I want for 'January' is...

[AngerManagement]

The best case scenario for a potential signing of Carroll would be to somehow manage to reduce the fee to a suitable figure by including the likes of Keane, Bentley, O'Hara in some kind of deal depending on who Newcastle desired and who would move there.

We certainly need to clear some of our dead wood as well as signing the new striker and at the very least Carroll would provide us a bit of bite upfront.

I will still hold out hope that Mr Levy can bring us someone more 'cultured' upfront, not that I have anything against an old fashion brusier type of Shearer striker, but I do feel a more mobile/intelligent/pretty footballing stiker may complement our array of classy midfielders (someone who can make the right runs and link up play with skill and intelligence to match the likes of Modric and BAle as opposed to someone who you woulld set up to win headers and knock the ball down for VDV....not that this is not worthy also)

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

The main difference between the Bent and Bentley deals is we didn't need them at all as we already had quality players in their positions that most everyone was happy with.

With the current toothless weak striker position we find ourselves in Carroll seems to possess all the characteristics we are crying out for from match to match. Someone to attack all our great crosses or to rifle in a shot from 25 yards out or go toe to toe with bully boy thug defenders and come out on top.

There's a risk with every big money transfer but with the form he's shown from 20-22 years old next month he's worth the risk for me. We'll have to wait and see what Ashley is like during negotiations as I reckon he'll be well up for making afew bob and the figures being bandied about in the press are rubbish.

Then of course Carroll needs convincing to leave Newcastle and move to a new more cultured country lol

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

This was basically the point I was trying to make to the poster I responded too.

NOt that Carroll is not or will not be good enough, I have not seen anything like enough of him to judge that nor am I qualifed at assessing potential of young strikers to really make such statements.

The point was in responce to his comparison to the transfer of Bale, to me Carroll is no longer in the same bracket so to compare the two situations was futile.

Carroll is hyped right now, so signing him now on the back of his first ENgland cap and first decent spell in the top flight would represent signing him at the top of his transfer potential.....due to his value to Newcastle and the fact he is currently very high profile. He will command a high fee it is illogical to believe otherwise based on what we know about ENglish football and the transfer market.

As you say we have scouting networks in place to identify top talent before they blossom and have done so well in recent years.

As you say we do not have a bottomless money pit like City or Chelsea had when they took a punt on Drogba, Mutu or Kezman and we are in a critical stage of our development (we need to maintain our CL status and kick on now before we fall behind to the high spending City and eradicate all our hard work an success in recent seasons)

We have to make each signing count when it comes to improve our first team (as we already have a strong team and squad) we aren't really in a position where we need to sign the next big thing for tomorrow, we need someone who can hit the ground running and do what we need now.

My whole point was not that Carroll is not good enough, it is that if we are to sign him it needs to be because we believe he is the right player for us now not because his stock will rise and rise because frankly it is unlikely to do (at best in will maintain as we will have to pay through the nose due to his importance to Newcastle)

Not really true if he continues to bang them in for Newcastle and hits afew for England in the qualifiers then by the summer his transfer value will be even higher. The going rate for a striker of Shearers quality and nationality in the EPL these days would be astronomical. There in lies the risk of waiting longer to see more. I think the past 18 months shows he's destined for big things and would strike now while he's still just about in our price range. If we wait til the summer he could be well out of sight by then.

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

I'd be happy with Kalinic or Elmander tbh. Just not as first choice. We'd still want a top quality partner for Van Der Vaart. Obviously Torres would be a dream. Other than that there aren't many options in England. I feel the same about Carroll atm, someone who would be a good choice of 4 strikers, potentially a first choice regular in the future. But £20m for that type of player would be a big risk, as it proved with Bent.

My ideal situation is...

January First Choice striker if possible - Suarez, Dzeko, Llorente, Gomez, Benzema

Any one of those i'd be happy with. It obvously depends on what type of striker we're looking for, because those are all different strikers. But i'm confident either one would score plenty of goals for us.

Summer Backup striker with potential to be great - Kalinic, Wolfswinkel, Carroll, Lukaku

1st choice - Suarez
Backups - Kalinic, Defoe, Pavlyuchenko

Harry Kane could maybe replace one of Defoe or Pav in a couple of years.

Agree about Kalinic or Elmander actually - while not the top drawer #9 we need, either would be an improvement on all 4 of our current forwards.

I don't agree about Suarez though - think he looks good in Holland but I don't see what the fuss is about at all - he's a slightly better Defoe IMO.


My thoughts would be:

New first choice (in order): Llorente, Benzema, Gomez, Dzeko, Vucinic

New second choice (in order): Lukaku, Kalinic, Elmander, Ibisevic, Toivonen, Carroll

3rd and 4th choice: Pav and Crouch

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

I too am far from convinced by Suarez

 

[brett.spurs]

Same, I'd take just about every striker we've been linked with so far over Suarez.

 

[AngerManagement]

Not really true if he continues to bang them in for Newcastle and hits afew for England in the qualifiers then by the summer his transfer value will be even higher. The going rate for a striker of Shearers quality and nationality in the EPL these days would be astronomical. There in lies the risk of waiting longer to see more. I think the past 18 months shows he's destined for big things and would strike now while he's still just about in our price range. If we wait til the summer he could be well out of sight by then.

It is true, right now he is hyped as the next Alan Shearer and has enjoyed an excellent half season in the Premier league.

He is vital to Newcastle's chances of survival and as such they will refuse to sell him unless a silly offer comes in.

To sign him in Jan i.e. mid season we (or any club) would surely have to play through the nose for him (above market value) and as a result the chances of his value increasing would be fairly slim.

Like buying Bent or Bentley, their value to their respective clubs exceeded their true value quite vastly...this is the boat Carroll is now in in my opinion.

I don't think his value will ever exceed £20m, he is never going to be a player of world class quality....he is no Rooney. What he is is a very talented and effective EPL striker, he is a menace to defences and if he continues his form long term he may attract too much attention for us to sign him (potentially)

Personally I think there is more than enough doubt over his ability to become a top level striker, I doubt he would even have been compared to SHearer if it were not for the Newcastle link. He has looked good thus far, but he is a big fish in a small pond and I don't see any reason to believe long term he is certain to be a star.

I'm not writing him off completely, I just don't see how you can count his form in the Championship as proof of anything really.....Lee Hughes and Nathan Elington have both lit up that level of football in their respective careers.

He is the big fish in the small Newcastle pond (well goldfish bowl) and there is every chance he would flop if signed by a bigger better team where he is no longer the big fish and the team is not set up to play to his strengths.

I'd rather us bring him in than stick with what we have because at least he would offer us something different, but I would like to think a club in our position is capable of doing better business and bringing in someone more in the VDV mould....to me at best Carroll is the next Ducan Ferguson (not a bad thing but not elite tier)

 

[mil1lion]

I haven't seen a lot of Suarez tbh, but I dont watch enough games across Europe to come up with too many alternatives either. He looked a class player at the World Cup, and i've seen a few Champions League games of Ajax this season. I like his versatility, the fact that he can play as a wide striker would give us the option to play 4-3-3. I also thought he lead the line great for Uruguay at the World Cup with Forlan playing in the VDV role in behind.

Thats the type of striker I want though. Someone who can allow us to change formations. I think Bale has what it takes to be a wide striker in a 4-3-3. That would give us the option to play a striker wide right and one of Pav or Defoe in the middle with VDV in behind. Just for those games where teams defend in numbers and we need to break them down. Effectively giving us 4 serious goal threats.

My biggest problem with our strikers is that they are very much suted to 4-4-2. Neither can play the lone striker role effectively enough, while neither can play as a wide striker either. The likes of Llorente, Gomez and Benzema could lead the line in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 formation. While someone like Suarez can play the lead striker role or as a wide striker. Thats what I like most about him, the options he gives us.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

It is true, right now he is hyped as the next Alan Shearer and has enjoyed an excellent half season in the Premier league.

He is vital to Newcastle's chances of survival and as such they will refuse to sell him unless a silly offer comes in.

To sign him in Jan i.e. mid season we (or any club) would surely have to play through the nose for him (above market value) and as a result the chances of his value increasing would be fairly slim.

Like buying Bent or Bentley, their value to their respective clubs exceeded their true value quite vastly...this is the boat Carroll is now in in my opinion.

I don't think his value will ever exceed £20m, he is never going to be a player of world class quality....he is no Rooney. What he is is a very talented and effective EPL striker, he is a menace to defences and if he continues his form long term he may attract too much attention for us to sign him (potentially)

Personally I think there is more than enough doubt over his ability to become a top level striker, I doubt he would even have been compared to SHearer if it were not for the Newcastle link. He has looked good thus far, but he is a big fish in a small pond and I don't see any reason to believe long term he is certain to be a star.

I'm not writing him off completely, I just don't see how you can count his form in the Championship as proof of anything really.....Lee Hughes and Nathan Elington have both lit up that level of football in their respective careers.

He is the big fish in the small Newcastle pond (well goldfish bowl) and there is every chance he would flop if signed by a bigger better team where he is no longer the big fish and the team is not set up to play to his strengths.

I'd rather us bring him in than stick with what we have because at least he would offer us something different, but I would like to think a club in our position is capable of doing better business and bringing in someone more in the VDV mould....to me at best Carroll is the next Ducan Ferguson (not a bad thing but not elite tier)

Just read the first few paragraphs but the fact is if he continues at the rate he has been and sticks afew away for England then by the summer they'll be talking 30-40million and not 20mil which will be well and truely out of our price range.

You are acting like his value can't go up anymore when in reality if he keeps banging them in it can go up a whole lot more and put him well out of our league.

Like you say it is a risk but like I say there is also just as much of a risk in waiting if we do want him. Ashley is willing to sell that goes without saying so it's up to Levy to work the best possible deal.

edit: just read some more and his last goal against the scousers was unbelievable sure Lucas stood off him but to beat Reina from 25-30 yards out was amazing plus he had an assist or 2 that game as well. The fact is he lit the championship up at 20 years old, how many other 20 year olds have had full seasons like that in the bully boy championship?

 

[AngerManagement]

I too am far from convinced by Suarez

he looked decent in the world cup

But obviously I was keeping an eye out for him due to the constant links to us we read on SPurscommunity ITK and what not and I have to say I was left underwhelmed.

Maybe I was expecting too much and he did look classy, but I must saying having watched every game they played in the world cup I didn't look at him and think YES WE HAVE TO SIGN THIS LAD, Forlan was far more impressive in truth.

He has a great scoring record in Holland certainly, but it's difficult to guage how well ones for in Holland would transfer to the more physical and fast paced premier league.

Maybe he would suit our creative players, maybe he could link well with VDV.... I don;t know, but these are the things our scouts will have assessed before deciding whether or not to bid for him (or any other striker) it's not really about how good they are at what they do....more how well they would compliment what we already have.

 

[AngerManagement]

Just read the first few paragraphs but the fact is if he continues at the rate he has been and sticks afew away for England then by the summer they'll be talking 30-40million and not 20mil which will be well and truely out of our price range.

You are acting like his value can't go up anymore when in reality if he keeps banging them in it can go up a whole lot more and put him well out of our league.

Like you say it is a risk but like I say there is also just as much of a risk in waiting if we do want him. Ashley is willing to sell that goes without saying so it's up to Levy to work the best possible deal.

I honestly believe Andy Carroll's value will never be anything like £30-40m

His value to NEwcastly now will mean any club who wants him will have to pay above market value to sign him.

Yes if he continues his scoring rate at newcastle and manages to keep his England place he may start to justify his current value but this would still not make him a £40m player no way does he have that kind of potential.

I highly doubt he will be a 20 goal a season striker, he may not be a flash in the pan but he will soon find defences wising up to his way of play and need to reinvent himself somewhat.

Decent striker yes, world class no....he is not worth £20m now and he will never be worth £30m much less £40m.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

he looked decent in the world cup

But obviously I was keeping an eye out for him due to the constant links to us we read on SPurscommunity ITK and what not and I have to say I was left underwhelmed.

Maybe I was expecting too much and he did look classy, but I must saying having watched every game they played in the world cup I didn't look at him and think YES WE HAVE TO SIGN THIS LAD, Forlan was far more impressive in truth.

He has a great scoring record in Holland certainly, but it's difficult to guage how well ones for in Holland would transfer to the more physical and fast paced premier league.

Maybe he would suit our creative players, maybe he could link well with VDV.... I don;t know, but these are the things our scouts will have assessed before deciding whether or not to bid for him (or any other striker) it's not really about how good they are at what they do....more how well they would compliment what we already have.

Forlan looked amazing in the WC and for me Suarez was just nothing special at all. I'm not sure he'd get in our starting line up consistently as he's not to much different than what we already have. Put Defoe or Pav in the Dutch league and they'd run riot.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

I honestly believe Andy Carroll's value will never be anything like £30-40m

His value to NEwcastly now will mean any club who wants him will have to pay above market value to sign him.

Yes if he continues his scoring rate at newcastle and manages to keep his England place he may start to justify his current value but this would still not make him a £40m player no way does he have that kind of potential.

I highly doubt he will be a 20 goal a season striker, he may not be a flash in the pan but he will soon find defences wising up to his way of play and need to reinvent himself somewhat.

Decent striker yes, world class no....he is not worth £20m now and he will never be worth £30m much less £40m.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see as I think he could be an English Drogba. We're clearly miles apart in our evaluations of his potential.

 

[AngerManagement]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see as I think he could be an English Drogba. We're clearly miles apart in our evaluations of his potential.

IF we do indeed sign him I hope you are right

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see as I think he could be an English Drogba.

Or a white Michael Ricketts :shrug:

 

[spudtrader]

Not really true if he continues to bang them in for Newcastle and hits afew for England in the qualifiers then by the summer his transfer value will be even higher. The going rate for a striker of Shearers quality and nationality in the EPL these days would be astronomical. There in lies the risk of waiting longer to see more. I think the past 18 months shows he's destined for big things and would strike now while he's still just about in our price range. If we wait til the summer he could be well out of sight by then.

This.

If we are looking at him, it could be seen as a risk to not buying him in this window and waiting to see how he develops... :grin:

 

[mil1lion]

There's as much chance that Carroll could be worth no more than £6m in 2 years, as there is of him being worth £20m +. Thats the big risk, which is why it would be easier to accept if he didn't cost so much now. Right now he could either become a Shearer/Owen/Rooney or he could become a Defoe/Cole/Zomora.

I prefer when we dip into the lower leagues and sign several players in the hope that one breaks through. Even if we waste money on players like Reid, Routledge and possibly Naughton now too, there's always the chance that a Dawson, Lennon and possibly Walker will more than cover the loss of those players. Hell we sold Carrick for £18m and signed Huddlestone for a fraction of that.

Thats just incredible business and the sort of business that will hold the club in good financial stead for the future, as well as support our finances with the new Stadium and training facilities. We cant really do the big money moves like we did for Bentley and Bent based on just potential anymore. We have to be smart like we were with Huddlestone, Lennon, Dawson and even Bale.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Beckham and Defoe ho hum wankers? You're such a lad aren't you? What absolute garbage you come out with so consistently.

Do you actually have any use, other than being my personal spellchecking pit pony ? Because it's been a real long time since you actually said anything interesting. You seem unable to actually debate anything, you are just a slightly camp, very grammatically correct spamqueen who only seems to exist to bitch about other peoples opinions.

 

[llamafarmer]

Maybe I was expecting too much and he did look classy, but I must saying having watched every game they played in the world cup I didn't look at him and think YES WE HAVE TO SIGN THIS LAD, Forlan was far more impressive in truth.

Totally agree with you, I did exactly the same - watched them with interest knowing we were strongly linked with Suarez and he just left me cold. The Ghana display didn't help either!

 

[thetallaghttiger]

Probably time to get rid of Keane (if we get the appropriate amount - £6+ million), Bentley (Loan or £5+ million) and Giovanni.

That would open up the opportunity to add O'Hara and Woodgate to our 25 man squad I believe, with 1 place to spare???

I think we should give Jamie O'Hara another chance, but instead of playing him in midfield, play him at left-back. IMO, Assou-Ekotto is the weakest player in our first choice starting 11, O'Hara could do a job at LB if given a chance.

Woodgate is a top defender, we all know the only weakness he has is his fitness.

If we can go out and get a quality centre forward, great. But if not, we shouldn't go out and buy just for the sake of it