Anelka Anti-semitic gesture today

[cozzo]

Aren't Muslims Semites? I thought that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Semitic religions? I think its more to do with Anti Zionism.

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

Aren't Muslims Semites? I thought that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Semitic religions? I think its more to do with Anti Zionism.

I have both Muslim and Jewish family so i can say from experience that logic is not needed in these debates, it's best just to roll a big fat one and hope the passive smoking helps people realise one anothers humanity

 

[jj87]

Aren't Muslims Semites? I thought that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Semitic religions? I think its more to do with Anti Zionism.

No - Semitic refers to a language group, of which Arabic and Hebrew both belong to. The definition of a people as 'Semitic' comes from the language those people speak. In contemporary usage, anti-Semitic tends to refer to anti-Jewish prejudice.

In this instance it seems like good old fashioned Jew hatred masquerading as a political position.

 

[beats1]

Aren't Muslims Semites? I thought that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Semitic religions? I think its more to do with Anti Zionism.

They are semite people, i.e. from the middle east region but the film is clearly from what I read aimed at jewish people.

 

[riggi]

Anti Zionist? Ha ye alright...

 

[hellava_tough]

The football pitch is no place for political messages, especially those which are particularly sensitive.

What about the tributes for Mandella?

Okay, great guy, but you can't really separate him from politics or a political message

 

[Kendall]

What about the tributes for Mandella?

Okay, great guy, but you can't really separate him from politics or a political message

Didn't agree with that either.

 

[Syn_13]

So that makes it alright, does it? Not all Muslims have fundamentalist beliefs but if a right wing comedian began making a gesture referring to Muslims and it was repeated, those making the gesture would be hung out to dry. In fact, they would probably have a fatwa our against them.

Unfortunately, anti-semitism is the acceptable face of racism.

As someone has said, if Anelka is such a good friend of this comedian he will know full well the connotations of the gesture.

I think that's going a bit too far. I don't think anti-semiticism is ever seen as being less important as any other form of racism. I've grown up in an area that traditionally had a lot of Jewish people (until the last decade or so) and anti-semitism has never been acceptable. The only form of racism tends to get ignored is against gypsies, from what I've seen.

I don't personally believe that there is anything wrong with being Anti-Zionist, it doesn't make you anti-semitic in any way. Plenty of Jewish people don't buy into it either. However, it's fucking moronic to base a gesture on the Nazi salute even if you're trying to be "ironic" and doing it backwards, and for that reason the comedian's a tool.

Anelka's also a tool for displaying the gesture on the football pitch. It's not a place for beliefs or ideologies, particularly controversial ones that are likely to cause a stir.

 

[hellava_tough]

Didn't agree with that either.

Fair enough

 

[LSUY]

A friend in France told me that it is a fad in France just like how things like "planking" and "Harlem Shake" are around the world. A lot of celebrities have done it previously and no noise. He sent me this link, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Quen...770957607?id=557773770957607&sk=photos_stream

Just shows how bloody moronic people are.

Two French soldiers performing the quenelle outside a synagogue: http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...refox-a&hs=SF2&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official

Le Pen performing the quenelle: http://www.rue89.com/2013/10/12/gollnisch-sexplique-quenelle-facon-dieudonne-pen-246557

A 10+ match ban would be more than enough to nip this gesture in the bud in English football.

 

[Khilari]

So that makes it alright, does it? Not all Muslims have fundamentalist beliefs but if a right wing comedian began making a gesture referring to Muslims and it was repeated, those making the gesture would be hung out to dry. In fact, they would probably have a fatwa our against them.

Unfortunately, anti-semitism is the acceptable face of racism.

As someone has said, if Anelka is such a good friend of this comedian he will know full well the connotations of the gesture.

Muslims aren't classed as a race so no law exists to prevent 'racist-like' behaviour.

Also, being anti-zionist is nothing to do with religion, it is a political position. There are Jewish people (fairly orthodox Jews in fact) who are anti-Zionist. Hypothetical scenarios involving hypothetical right wing comedians has little to do with Anelka or his mate.

Finally, I made no comments about whether it is 'alright or not', I simply put forward my views on the difference between the anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

 

[Khilari]

Read into his mate's history - sounds very dodgy to me. Why would you need a salute which is so uncomfortably close to the Nazis to 'represent your views?

He's not very clever doing it and given the publicity he may now regret it. I have to admit ignorance however in understanding how it is similar to a Nazi salute "in reverse" - did Anelka raise his hand straight in the air afterwards?

 

[Khilari]

This is true but he is also under investigation it seems for his anti semitic comments by the french government

I'm sure many anti-zionists harbour anti-semitic views.

 

[sim0n]

What Bollox - He tweeted: "This gesture was just a special dedication to my comedian friend Dieudonné"

A dedication to my comedian friend who created this "quenelle" anti-semitic gesture...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)

Dieudonné M'bala M'bala (born 11 February 1966), generally known by his stage name Dieudonné (French: [djø.dɔ.ne]), is a French comedian, actor and political activist. Initially an anti-racist activist, he later became close to the far-right Front National[1] and fringe organisations. He has been convicted in court seven times for antisemitic remarks [2]. Since 1997, Dieudonné has regularly stood in parliamentary and European Union elections as a candidate at the head of fringe or splinter parties, and has tried and failed to run in two French presidential elections (2002 and 2007). He openly supported Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's views on Israel and the Jewish people. He has made "heil" like signs on television as part of a sketch that made controversy, and has described Holocaust remembrance as "memorial pornography".

In response to Dieudonne's numerous antisemitic statements, French Interior Minister Manuel Valls stated that Dieudonne was "no longer a comedian" but was rather an "anti-Semite and racist" and that he would seek to ban all Dieudonne's public gatherings as they amounted to a public safety risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieudonné_M'bala_M'bala

Why would you make a "special dedication" to ANYONE like this?....

Only question left, is Anelka just a douchebag, or a full on anti-semite?

Wilshire just got 3 games for the standard middle finger, so what will Anelka get for this hateful gesture? Let's kick racism out of football, eh? Let's see if the FA have any balls...

 

[Khilari]

What Bollox - He tweeted: "This gesture was just a special dedication to my comedian friend Dieudonné"

A dedication to my comedian friend who created this "quenelle" anti-semitic gesture...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)

Dieudonné M'bala M'bala (born 11 February 1966), generally known by his stage name Dieudonné (French: [djø.dɔ.ne]), is a French comedian, actor and political activist. Initially an anti-racist activist, he later became close to the far-right Front National[1] and fringe organisations. He has been convicted in court seven times for antisemitic remarks [2]. Since 1997, Dieudonné has regularly stood in parliamentary and European Union elections as a candidate at the head of fringe or splinter parties, and has tried and failed to run in two French presidential elections (2002 and 2007). He openly supported Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's views on Israel and the Jewish people. He has made "heil" like signs on television as part of a sketch that made controversy, and has described Holocaust remembrance as "memorial pornography".

In response to Dieudonne's numerous antisemitic statements, French Interior Minister Manuel Valls stated that Dieudonne was "no longer a comedian" but was rather an "anti-Semite and racist" and that he would seek to ban all Dieudonne's public gatherings as they amounted to a public safety risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieudonné_M'bala_M'bala

Why would you make a "special dedication" to ANYONE like this?....

Only question left, is Anelka just a douchebag, or a full on anti-semite?

Wilshire just got 3 games for the standard middle finger, so what will Anelka get for this hateful gesture? Let's kick racism out of football, eh? Let's see if the FA have any balls...

I'd be a bit wary of Wikipedia forming fact - I don't know much about Dieudonne and he may well (probably does) harbour antisemitic views judging by what the media seems to say about him (though there may well be an agenda).

However, the Wiki page says he's been 'convicted' in court 7 times for antisemitic remarks, reference [2]. If you click on the reference, it actually says "He has been fined seven times for defamation, insult and provocation to hate, and for racial discrimination". Whilst probably not changing the gist of the article, being convicted of something and fined for something does portray slightly different points and doesn't say he's been convicted 7 times for anti-semitism. Frankie Boyle probably wonders close to being obnoxious but mislabelling him on a Wikipedia page to suit a viewpoint is hardly factual.

I think a middle finger is clearly an offensive sign. Putting a hand on the arm isn't unanimously classed as offensive, though some people who find one person who does it to be offensive, I'm not sure how this is comparable to Wilshere?

I do think political views should be left off the football pitch. The problem is, political views are evocative especially on the football pitch where emotions run high. It is easy to blur religion, race and politics but I'd be surprised if logically Anelka's celebration can be proven to be an antisemitic gesture, especially given his explanation.

 

[sim0n]

In return Dieudonne has threatened to sue the groups for calling it a Nazi salute. He calls it "la quenelle" - a word for a fish dumpling - and says it stands for his anti-Zionist and anti-establishment views, rather than anti-Semitism.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25537686

The "comedian" himself states that the "quenelle" is an anti-Zionist gesture. Not sure on the difference between anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic,.... many might consider them synonymous?...

If I were not anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic, then I can't for the life of me understand why I would communicate this gesture in dedication to the "comedian" who created an anti-Zionist gesture...

The quenelle is new to me,... but the "sentiment" is not...

 

[dagraham]

In return Dieudonne has threatened to sue the groups for calling it a Nazi salute. He calls it "la quenelle" - a word for a fish dumpling - and says it stands for his anti-Zionist and anti-establishment views, rather than anti-Semitism.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25537686

The "comedian" himself states that the "quenelle" is an anti-Zionist gesture. Not sure on the difference between anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic,.... many might consider them synonymous?...

If I were not anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic, then I can't for the life of me understand why I would communicate this gesture in dedication to the "comedian" who created an anti-Zionist gesture...

The quenelle is new to me,... but the "sentiment" is not...

Notice how the anti-zionist and anti-establishment stances have been linked. In other words, more world wide Jewish conspiracy bullshit. Its not even subtle.

Its one thing to be critical of the actions of the Israeli government at times but as others have said anti-zionism and anti-semitism are inexorably linked. Dig a little deeper and these stances 99 times out of 100 are just old fashioned Jew hatred, masquerading as something else.

 

[Dr Know]

If you go back and watch the game again you will see Berahino joined Anelka in the salute, I wonder why that wasn't picked up too

 

[Ionman34]

The irony here is that it is based on a Nazi salute and carried out by a Black man.
Hitler's views on the Black race were the same as his view on the Jews, he wanted to wipe out both.

Kinda highlights the faux intellectual that many of these Footballers really are. It always 'seems' to be the French too.

 

[SelbYido]

I did a "quenelle" today. Horseradish creme fraiche on a smoked salmon 'rose' with shaved raw fennel salad and capers. I'm in the wrong thread again, aren't I...