Anthony Martial

[LeParisien]

It seems too many accept playing in a shiny new stadium and the champions league as an achievement. Last time I checked football is about winning and you don’t get medals for the best stadium.

We won nothing last year with our current team, and whilst we seem to be standing still every other club has strengthened. Should we as fans accept that as we now have extra leg room, a micro brewery and a cheese room!

I think it’s important to give a response to this because it’s quite a popular point of view.

One of the reasons I am proud to be a Spurs fan is because we are a very well run club. We have grown organically and not relied on cash injections from people who have no connection to the club. We are healthy and natural.

Our recent success on the pitch has led expectations to rise. That is generally a good thing but the assumption that our success means we should be spending more is wrong. We are not very wealthy compared to our rivals. Proof coming.

Here is a very reliable source (click for thread) but I will explain what is pertinent below:

In the transfer market we have had a very low net spend over the past 5/6 years and that has contributed to strong profits. Those profits are still small in the context of an £850m stadium project. If our profit is rising happily, so is our debt. Remember that when people tell you we should be spending more because our profit is increasing. Profit disguises the large loans we are taking out.

Our revenue is a long way behind the rest of the top 6. If you can’t be bothered with the whole thing above scroll down until you get to the Deloitte money league table.

Our match day income is about a third less than Chelsea and Liverpool and well under half of Arsenal and United. City’s is close to us but still £7m more for the 16/17 season.

Our commercial revenue is £72m. But the rest of the top 6 is between £117m (Arsenal) and £279m (Man Utd).

The TV revenue which makes everyone think we should be loaded constitutes almost 2/3 our revenue but well under half the rest of the top 6’s.

Success is strongly correlated with your wage bill and in 16/17 our wage bill was 60% of Arsenal’s (who had the 5th highest). The efforts this summer to keep players through healthy contracts by increasing the wage ceiling is therefore welcome.

We are doing well it’s true but until we get 10 years of massive match day income like Arsenal, the foreign backing of City or Chelsea, 25 years of sustained winning like United or the commercial pull of Liverpool... we are not able to financially compete with them.

On the field we can because we are so well run and through the academy, shrewd buys in the transfer market, an excellent manager and luck we have the nucleus of a very strong team. But it will be years before we can splurge the way they can.

What will it take to maintain our success? Probably the academy, shrewd buys in the transfer market, an excellent manager and luck...

So are some fans un-ambitious? I don’t think so. They are conscious where we have come from and that this is a journey. We are growing sustainably and we are close to success but we are not financially on the same level as our competitors .... yet.

Basically, be patient and enjoy the ride ..!

 

[Clark28]

I dont think that anything will happen in the stadiums, I think this is purely forum level frustration and that there has been a perfect storm created to make the forums what we they are at the moment.

1. The itk, not a bash but the reality is thsfe was very exciting itk that people took and allowed themselves to run wild with as it wove very nicely into what was going on with the club. It is easy to believe the things you want to hear and ignore arguably your ( specifically yours) more pragmatic itk which was; everything done late, no premier purchases and small chance lf big spend.
2. Pochs comments, 1 which was asking for early signings and the other being the brave comments which were intepreted 56 ways.
3 finally the new stadium itseld is a catalyst thinking this is our big moment and big season.

I think those 3 factors created some big excitement and its not happened in the way people hoped but I myself dont think the vast majority are being entitled. I dont think the vast majority are demanding huge signings but just a few additions which will get us over the line.

I know a few people are being hyperbolic expexting doomsday but when the time comes to get behind the team I dont think theres a chance in hell we will go the West Ham route no matter what, people are smart enough to see the big picture of what Levy has done for us even if we slate him for a bad window.

What I will say aswell is as an example the Zaha news sent people into a meltdown, I was gutted myself but as soon as I read last night we backed away from a 75 mill evaluation, I said fair enough, I can appreciate that is too high a sum and I imagine the majority would agree. I believe we were initially gutted because we heard the fee wouldnt be as bad as that.

I agree with this, one of my best mates and his old man are Spurs fans. They aren't on any of the fan forums or twitter.

Was speaking to them yesterday and they are way more positive about the upcoming season than the average punter on here.

 

[Hakkz]

Unless that move generates goodwill between the clubs and they decide to sell to us?

Funniest post of the day

 

[cwhite02]

it won't spill on to the terraces at all until we lose a game. Then Levy will be the new Irvine Scholar. If we fail to get targets then Levy deserves criticism. If we get anything like West ham style reactions in the stands then I will honestly be ashamed of my fellow supporters. If having a poor window creates protests in our Brand new stadium whilst watching CL football, then we will be a laughing stock for decades to come. This ilk of Spurs fans are everything that is wrong with Football now.

I don't think it will spill on the terraces, not unless we have a really poor start. Most of us go to games to support the team. I'm sure you can appreciate the frustrations so far with this window, it's certainly getting to 'twitchy bum time'.

Selling Toby without Martial in return, stinks of small time if he was one of our prime targets. United may be still stronger financially but times have changed, and the gap has reduced from all of the top 6 and the rest of the league.

 

[barry]

I think it’s important to give a response to this because it’s quite a popular point of view.

One of the reasons I am proud to be a Spurs fan is because we are a very well run club. We have grown organically and not relied on cash injections from people who have no connection to the club. We are healthy and natural.

Our recent success on the pitch has led expectations to rise. That is generally a good thing but the assumption that our success means we should be spending more is wrong. We are not very wealthy compared to our rivals. Proof coming.

Here is a very reliable source (click for thread) but I will explain what is pertinent below:

In the transfer market we have had a very low net spend over the past 5/6 years and that has contributed to strong profits. Those profits are still small in the context of an £850m stadium project. If our profit is rising happily, so is our debt. Remember that when people tell you we should be spending more because our profit is increasing. Profit disguises the large loans we are taking out.

Our revenue is a long way behind the rest of the top 6. If you can’t be bothered with the whole thing above scroll down until you get to the Deloitte money league table.

Our match day income is about a third less than Chelsea and Liverpool and well under half of Arsenal and United. City’s is close to us but still £7m more for the 16/17 season.

Our commercial revenue is £72m. But the rest of the top 6 is between £117m (Arsenal) and £279m (Man Utd).

The TV revenue which makes everyone think we should be loaded constitutes almost 2/3 our revenue but well under half the rest of the top 6’s.

Success is strongly correlated with your wage bill and in 16/17 our wage bill was 60% of Arsenal’s (who had the 5th highest). The efforts this summer to keep players through healthy contracts by increasing the wage ceiling is therefore welcome.

We are doing well it’s true but until we get 10 years of massive match day income like Arsenal, the foreign backing of City or Chelsea, 25 years of sustained winning like United or the commercial pull of Liverpool... we are not able to financially compete with them.

On the field we can because we are so well run and through the academy, shrewd buys in the transfer market, an excellent manager and luck we have the nucleus of a very strong team. But it will be years before we can splurge the way they can.

What will it take to maintain our success? Probably the academy, shrewd buys in the transfer market, an excellent manager and luck...

So are some fans un-ambitious? I don’t think so. They are conscious where we have come from and that this is a journey. We are growing sustainably and we are close to success but we are not financially on the same level as our competitors .... yet.

Basically, be patient and enjoy the ride ..!

The irons hot now. Who knows if it will be 10 years. How long before the ride gets stale? When will your patients run out?
We might not be as rich as the other top 6 but we're still one of the richest clubs in world football. We don't act like it.
Many of us have waited for years for an opportunity like this. What's the point if we don't capitalise?
How long before players, and managers start to leave because our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?
Would you expect great players to join in the knowledge that our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?

 

[Liamyid28]

What was the point of showing martial around the new stadium and the training ground? Or was that more waffle like us offering a better deal to zaha than chelsea

 

[absolute bobbins]

So my feelings on this are that we should be prepared to swallow the 35 million loss and destroy Alderwirelds career, what matters here is the optics.

If he wants United so much, let his team pressure United into giving up Martial because the options from their end should be that you help us or your boy sits in the reserves, not playing for a year, losing value, fitness and bargaining power when you try and negotiate next summer.

 

[Trix]

Don't disagree but paying more than anyone to watch football and not seeing investment isn't acceptable either regardless of the circumstances

You think the extra our season tickets cost cover the price of the stadium and training ground? Come on mate there is plenty of investment going on.

I don't think it will spill on the terraces, not unless we have a really poor start. Most of us go to games to support the team. I'm sure you can appreciate the frustrations so far with this window, it's certainly getting to 'twitchy bum time'.

Selling Toby without Martial in return, stinks of small time if he was one of our prime targets. United may be still stronger financially but times have changed, and the gap has reduced from all of the top 6 and the rest of the league.

Of course I understand the frustration. That's why in my post you are quoting I say, "if we fail to strengthen this window Levy deserves to be criticised."

You are not the only one who has quoted my post and missed that sentence.

 

[LeParisien]

The irons hot now. Who knows if it will be 10 years. How long before the ride gets stale? When will your patients run out?
We might not be as rich as the other top 6 but we're still one of the richest clubs in world football. We don't act like it.
Many of us have waited for years for an opportunity like this. What's the point if we don't capitalise?
How long before players, and managers start to leave because our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?
Would you expect great players to join in the knowledge that our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?

I understand the fear. We’ve never had it so good and this beautiful high could disappear if we don’t capitalise on it.

Ultimately though it’s a fear and we can’t operate our club from a place of fear. We must be brave! We are blessed (I know that’s provocative!) with a chairman who is cautious. He speaks of taking care of the club whilst it’s in his hands - being a steward - and whatever criticism you can make of him, you cannot doubt that he is financiall prudent!

Sure there are threats to our financial position. If the tv money slows then we will be disproportionately affected because far more of our revenue comes from there than the rest of the top 6.

But that’s why growing commercial and match day income is so important. The NFL ties will help in a small way to increase our American fan base. I was harsh to @yankspurs yesterday (love you ? !) but I would happily have 1000 of him on this forum if it were indicative of our fan base out there.

Players will not want to leave all at once and if they do we can rely on astronomic fees for them. You cannot possibly doubt that. And levy (as per itk) understands the importance of CL football so will reinvest appropriately.

We have grown year on year for a decade so I do not think that we should be too anxious about it suddenly disappearing.

DONT BE SO BLOODY ANXIOUS

 

[Japhet]

One crucial element in the whole Toby/Martial merry go round is that Mourinho places far less value in dressing room unity than Poch does. It cost him his job at Chelsea and he usually ends up with a great deal of squad unhappiness because it is all about Mourinho and nothing else. He won't care if Martial kicks off and becomes disruptive because he hasn't learnt anything. On the other hand, Poch won't want Toby sulking around and stinking the place up and as a result our dressing room will be a nicer place to be than their's. I think this increases the chances of them buying Toby and not selling us Martial, but it will cost them one way or another.

 

[Ben1]

I have to say it's still not the position i'm most worried about. The only problem there is Son going to the Asian games for a bit but other than that we are not desperate. If we can't get anyone decent it's better to leave it and focus all the efforts on the midfield.

Exactly my thoughts. For me, a CB replacement and CM should be priority with a Winger as extra if all goes to plan.

Doesn't seem to be the clubs perspective if rumuor is to be believed.

 

[worcestersauce]

I agree with this, one of my best mates and his old man are Spurs fans. They aren't on any of the fan forums or twitter.

Was speaking to them yesterday and they are way more positive about the upcoming season than the average punter on here.

There are men on death row who are more positive than the average punter on here.

 

[Primativ]

it won't spill on to the terraces at all until we lose a game. Then Levy will be the new Irvine Scholar. If we fail to get targets then Levy deserves criticism. If we get anything like West ham style reactions in the stands then I will honestly be ashamed of my fellow supporters. If having a poor window creates protests in our Brand new stadium whilst watching CL football, then we will be a laughing stock for decades to come. This ilk of Spurs fans are everything that is wrong with Football now.

We pay some of the highest season ticket prices in the world. With that price you expect the club to show more ambition in then transfer market than what we are currently.

The reason there is angst among some of us is because

1. There is a limited shelf life for this side to win stuff before it gets broken apart. One could argue the breaking apart is already happening with Walker and Alderweireld going to rivals in successive summers.
2. Many fans can see there are glaring weaknesses in our squad, particularly at CB and CM. It is quite clear Dembele struggles to compete in the PL now. We have had ITK info saying Dembele is coaxed through his injuries, it's clear from seeing him on the pitch that is the case. We have Winks and Wanyama always injured, yet the club so far have failed to remedy this issue by signing a CM, that is another cause of huge frustration to fans.
3. With Toby going we will be left horribly exposed at CB if one of the other two CBS got injured. We could be playing title deciders or huge CL games with Foyth or CCV are one of our first 11 CBs. That is a really concerning prospect for any level headed Spurs fan to see and I would question someones knowledge of football if they think that is acceptable from Spurs being competitive angle for the upcoming season.
4. We seem to have done a deal with United without getting Martial in return which again looks completely ridiculous, Yet there is talk that they may do a Willian Martial deal with Chelsea. How on earth were we unable to take advantage of United's Toby interest to do a deal?
5. The above scenarios paint a picture of our brilliant head coach not being properly backed and the fall out from that is another concern of angst for fans.
6. The lack of spending is just a horrible lack of intent and ambition from the club, no fan likes to see that.

All of these are reasonable and level headed concerns which we are all perfectly correct to feel upset by.

The new stadium can go where the sun doesn't shine if we are playing FC Cheek Boys with Eddie Howe in charge in 2020 because Levy failed to properly invest in the squad this summer. Some people seem oblivious to the fact that failure to stregthen from a position of relative strength can quickly in football see you slide back down the table. We don't pay the wages to keep our star players happy if we can't offer CL and a decent prospect at winning stuff. Kane, Eriksen et all won't hang around.

Levy has 5 days to sign 3 players to strengthen our squad, otherwise he would have let us all badly down by leaving the squad horribly short in key areas for the upcoming season, there are no two ways about it.

 

[voxy28]

.@ManUtd will offer France forward Anthony Martial, 22, to @ChelseaFC in exchange for Brazil winger Willian, 29, with both players valued at £75m. (Sunday Mirror)
?

 

[LeParisien]

We pay some of the highest season ticket prices in the world. With that price you expect the club to show more ambition in then transfer market than what we are currently.

The reason there is angst among some of us is because

1. There is a limited shelf life for this side to win stuff before it gets broken apart. One could argue the breaking apart is already happening with Walker and Alderweireld going to rivals in successive summers.
2. Many fans can see there are glaring weaknesses in our squad, particularly at CB and CM. It is quite clear Dembele struggles to compete in the PL now. We have had ITK info saying Dembele is coaxed through his injuries, it's clear from seeing him on the pitch that is the case. We have Winks and Wanyama always injured, yet the club so far have failed to remedy this issue by signing a CM, that is another cause of huge frustration to fans.
3. With Toby going we will be left horribly exposed at CB if one of the other two CBS got injured. We could be playing title deciders or huge CL games with Foyth or CCV are one of our first 11 CBs. That is a really concerning prospect for any level headed Spurs fan to see and I would question someones knowledge of football if they think that is acceptable from Spurs being competitive angle for the upcoming season.
4. The above scenarious paint a picture of our brilliant head coach not being properly backed and the fall out from that is another concern of angst for fans.
5. The lack of spending is just a horrible lack of intent and ambition from the club, no fan likes to see that.

All of these are reasonable and level headed concerns which we are all perfectly correct to feel upset by.

The new stadium can go where the sun doesn't shine if we are playing FC Cheek Boys with Eddie Howe in charge in 2020 because Levy failed to properly invest in the squad this summer. Some people seem oblivious to the fact that failure to stregthen from a position of relative strength can quickly in football see you slide back down the table. We don't pay the wages to keep our star players happy if we can't offer CL and a decent prospect at winning stuff. Kane, Eriksen et all won't hang around.

Levy has 5 days to sign 3 players to strengthen our squad, otherwise he would have let us all badly down by leaving the squad horribly short in key areas for the upcoming season, there are no two ways about it.

my two posts on the previous page explain why we are not in a position to compete financially with the rest of the top 6.

You seem to think that a club’s ability to spend is heavily reliant on season ticket prices. That is not true.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

We pay some of the highest season ticket prices in the world. With that price you expect the club to show more ambition in then transfer market than what we are currently.

The reason there is angst among some of us is because

1. There is a limited shelf life for this side to win stuff before it gets broken apart. One could argue the breaking apart is already happening with Walker and Alderweireld going to rivals in successive summers.
2. Many fans can see there are glaring weaknesses in our squad, particularly at CB and CM. It is quite clear Dembele struggles to compete in the PL now. We have had ITK info saying Dembele is coaxed through his injuries, it's clear from seeing him on the pitch that is the case. We have Winks and Wanyama always injured, yet the club so far have failed to remedy this issue by signing a CM, that is another cause of huge frustration to fans.
3. With Toby going we will be left horribly exposed at CB if one of the other two CBS got injured. We could be playing title deciders or huge CL games with Foyth or CCV are one of our first 11 CBs. That is a really concerning prospect for any level headed Spurs fan to see and I would question someones knowledge of football if they think that is acceptable from Spurs being competitive angle for the upcoming season.
4. We seem to have done a deal with United wihtout getting Martial in return which again looks completely ridiculous, Yet there is talk that they may do a Willian Martial deal with Chelsea. How one earth were we unable to take advantage of United's Toby interest to do a deal?
5. The above scenarios paint a picture of our brilliant head coach not being properly backed and the fall out from that is another concern of angst for fans.
6. The lack of spending is just a horrible lack of intent and ambition from the club, no fan likes to see that.

All of these are reasonable and level headed concerns which we are all perfectly correct to feel upset by.

The new stadium can go where the sun doesn't shine if we are playing FC Cheek Boys with Eddie Howe in charge in 2020 because Levy failed to properly invest in the squad this summer. Some people seem oblivious to the fact that failure to stregthen from a position of relative strength can quickly in football see you slide back down the table. We don't pay the wages to keep our star players happy if we can't offer CL and a decent prospect at winning stuff. Kane, Eriksen et all won't hang around.

Levy has 5 days to sign 3 players to strengthen our squad, otherwise he would have let us all badly down by leaving the squad horribly short in key areas for the upcoming season, there are no two ways about it.

Well written list of concerns not that I am going to get into it in this thread but is it okay to ask when you say 'we pay some of the highest season ticket prices in the world' - have you personally bought a season ticket?

 

[WalkerboyUK]

.@ManUtd will offer France forward Anthony Martial, 22, to @ChelseaFC in exchange for Brazil winger Willian, 29, with both players valued at £75m. (Sunday Mirror)
?

Which means he is available. It's just taking their opportunity to get revenge for the Berbatov deal. Fucking us over by taking Toby but refusing to sell anyone to us.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

.@ManUtd will offer France forward Anthony Martial, 22, to @ChelseaFC in exchange for Brazil winger Willian, 29, with both players valued at £75m. (Sunday Mirror)
?

It's the same thing from last night, in which the same report said that they were after Maguire or Mina aswell as doing that swap deal.

 

[Primativ]

my two posts on the previous page explain why we are not in a position to compete financially with the rest of the top 6.

You seem to think that a club’s ability to spend is heavily reliant on season ticket prices. That is not true.

Sorry but that is rubbish, I'm not saying we have to spend 200 million like our rivals. We may not be able to sign 90 million pound players but we sure as hell can sign a CM and CB for 50 or 60 million to allow us to remain competitive in our weak areas.

No one is saying spend like PSG or City, but there is a middle ground where you can sign quality for 50 million, which Spurs can afford. It's not all or nothing, yet nothing is what we are doing. It is not acceptable.

 

[shelfmonkey]

The irons hot now. Who knows if it will be 10 years. How long before the ride gets stale? When will your patients run out?
We might not be as rich as the other top 6 but we're still one of the richest clubs in world football. We don't act like it.
Many of us have waited for years for an opportunity like this. What's the point if we don't capitalise?
How long before players, and managers start to leave because our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?
Would you expect great players to join in the knowledge that our financially prudent club doesn't win trophies?

When the hospital's on fire!!?