Are Spurs fans holding Tottenham back?

[absolute bobbins]

Simple question. We have a lot of fans who gorged themselves on a single season of Champions League football and refuse to be satisfied until we get back to the promised land again.

A lot seem to think we should risk the long term existence of the club, martyr the bank balance in the hope that we may reach the promised land and are greeted by 72 World Class players.

A lot who have forgotten how to express any joy, who go to Spurs and expect to be entertained and will only voice approval if we're coasting at 3-0 up before halftime.

So, are Spurs fans holding Tottenham back?

 

[mpickard2087]

Guilty, your honour.

 

[JerryGarcia]

I don't know about holding us back but they annoy the fuck out of me.

 

[nightgoat]

Showing the same level of support as the Jol era would probably be good for an extra couple of points a season. You know, enough to have got us into the Champions League a couple more times.

 

[Spurger King]

I think our performances and results under Harry allowed a lot of fans to start dreaming of success, which has been followed by tension and frustration that is palpable in the stadium. AVB had a point when he mentioned the negative atmosphere at the Lane, and how it affected the way we played (though I think his negative tactics contributed a fair bit as well).

Unfortunately we looked like we were within touching distance of a new era, and a series of bad decisions and bad luck took that away from us. It's not that easy to switch back to the jovial ambiance in the stands that was evident a few years ago, when we were largely under no illusions and could just enjoy cheering on the team.

That brief period where we were playing well and competing at the top, with players like Modric, VDV, and Bale shining on the CL stage, probably brought the pain of the last couple of decades into focus for a lot of fans. Years of being behind Arsenal...years of being disappointing...years of having little more to hope for than a good cup run. The danger of slipping back into that state is a bit like taking a powerful drug for the first time, then having it taken away again. You didn't miss it before, but now you've had a taste of it you won't be satisfied until you have it again.

I get the feeling that large sections of our fans have collectively raised the bar as to what is deemed acceptable, so in that respect the club is almost a victim of its own success. It's created a pressure-cooker atmosphere that has obviously made the Lane a lot less enjoyable to go to (or play at, if you're the home team), but the one positive thing I would say is that it has emphasised the desire a lot of fans have to see us once again being genuine competitors.

If we carry on playing attractive football under Pochettino I can see the good atmosphere returning...but there will still be a lot of people who are reluctant to turn the other cheek if we struggle to compete at the top. Given our current financial situation we probably should be a lot more realistic and patient, but expectations have changed in recent years and a lot of people have had enough of us being mere 'also-rans'. At best it will push the club on to aim higher. At worst we'll become the Newcastle of the south and allow bitterness and frustration to hinder our progress.

In short, we definitely need an improved atmosphere at the Lane, along with some more realism, but at the same time I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that a lot of fans are no longer content to clap and cheer a team sleepwalking its way towards 30 years of mediocre league performances, and very little in the trophy cabinet.

Perhaps the sleeping giant has awoken, but really isn't a morning person.

 

[Bobbins]

We could almost do with being taken over and then being shit for a few years, do a Villa.

That would get rid of all the Levy/ENIC haters and shed the plastics we picked up during the CL run.

I don't agree with the way Levy's done a lot of things, and can criticise him plenty, but it's the hatred, the vitriol, the sense of entitlement, and the depressing, morose, "everything and everyone is shit" attitude that some people have about EVERYTHING associated with the club and all the players that gets on my tits. These people must be truly miserable fuckers in real life.

 

[ShaunL84]

Yes.

Paying extremely high ticket prices for a club that's not in the CL and for a club that hasn't won anything major in the recent past and doesn't look like winning anything in the recent future that's major (Maybe Europa)

Our fans shouldn't even be considered as a problem, Our season ticket holders pay more than Arsenal (Per Game) and Chelsea who both have CL football.

 

[yankspurs]

We could almost do with being taken over and then being shit for a few years, do a Villa.

That would get rid of all the Levy/ENIC haters and shed the plastics we picked up during the CL run.

I don't agree with the way Levy's done a lot of things, and can criticise him plenty, but it's the hatred, the vitriol, the sense of entitlement, and the depressing, morose, "everything and everyone is shit" attitude that some people have about EVERYTHING associated with the club and all the players that gets on my tits. These people must be truly miserable fuckers in real life.

If Cain Hoy *cough*Guggenheim*cough* buy us, I highly doubt it'll be like Lerner. Probably closer to a dr creepy.
Also, wouldnt we want these so called plastics though? More fans likely equals more revenue from apparel sales and ticket sales. More incentive to put the games on tv too which adds to the tv money allotment. Yes, they'll be frustrating to deal with, but as far as i can tell their are more benefits.

 

[TH1239]

Simple question. We have a lot of fans who gorged themselves on a single season of Champions League football and refuse to be satisfied until we get back to the promised land again.

A lot seem to think we should risk the long term existence of the club, martyr the bank balance in the hope that we may reach the promised land and are greeted by 72 World Class players.

A lot who have forgotten how to express any joy, who go to Spurs and expect to be entertained and will only voice approval if we're coasting at 3-0 up before halftime.

So, are Spurs fans holding Tottenham back?

Which fans, specifically, think this? Can you show me posts with people hoping we "martyr the bank balance?" Do you think spending an extra 20 million pounds of money in the transfer market every summer will lead to administration for the club? Because a modicum of net spending is all I've seen most people here advocating for, which is completely reasonable given that the club earned 33 million more pounds last season than the season before due to an incredibly lucrative global television deal.

Whether that was spending a bit more on a special signing like Schneiderlin or buying Remy at 11 million pounds, very few serious supporters here have advocated massive spending sprees that would put the club at financial risk. Instead most have wanted us to buy quality, attainable players who were available at prices we've paid in the past and for wages we can afford.

 

[eViL]

Yes.

 

[whitesocks]

Are Spurs fans holding Tottenham back?

Yes - We are not demanding enough.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I think our performances and results under Harry allowed a lot of fans to start dreaming of success, which has been followed by tension and frustration that is palpable in the stadium. AVB had a point when he mentioned the negative atmosphere at the Lane, and how it affected the way we played (though I think his negative tactics contributed a fair bit as well).

Unfortunately we looked like we were within touching distance of a new era, and a series of bad decisions and bad luck took that away from us. It's not that easy to switch back to the jovial ambiance in the stands that was evident a few years ago, when we were largely under no illusions and could just enjoy cheering on the team.

That brief period where we were playing well and competing at the top, with players like Modric, VDV, and Bale shining on the CL stage, probably brought the pain of the last couple of decades into focus for a lot of fans. Years of being behind Arsenal...years of being disappointing...years of having little more to hope for than a good cup run. The danger of slipping back into that state is a bit like taking a powerful drug for the first time, then having it taken away again. You didn't miss it before, but now you've had a taste of it you won't be satisfied until you have it again.

I get the feeling that large sections of our fans have collectively raised the bar as to what is deemed acceptable, so in that respect the club is almost a victim of its own success. It's created a pressure-cooker atmosphere that has obviously made the Lane a lot less enjoyable to go to (or play at, if you're the home team), but the one positive thing I would say is that it has emphasised the desire a lot of fans have to see us once again being genuine competitors.

If we carry on playing attractive football under Pochettino I can see the good atmosphere returning...but there will still be a lot of people who are reluctant to turn the other cheek if we struggle to compete at the top. Given our current financial situation we probably should be a lot more realistic and patient, but expectations have changed in recent years and a lot of people have had enough of us being mere 'also-rans'. At best it will push the club on to aim higher. At worst we'll become the Newcastle of the south and allow bitterness and frustration to hinder our progress.

In short, we definitely need an improved atmosphere at the Lane, along with some more realism, but at the same time I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that a lot of fans are no longer content to clap and cheer a team sleepwalking its way towards 30 years of mediocre league performances, and very little in the trophy cabinet.

Perhaps the sleeping giant has awoken, but really isn't a morning person.

This is exactly it. The positivity around our club was building from the happy accident of Jol taking over, and that team with Davids/Carrick/Keane etc... all the way up to the Harry years. Which was the best we've played since Burkinshaw, with a superb squad of excellent players. We've stumbled since then and it's left us back a few places while other have regained their lead or overtaken us.

But fans in the ground act as though we've gone back to the days of Francis, Gross, Graham and Hoddle. We really, really haven't. What we've done is level off at a considerably higher level than where we were. Jol had us grow at such a fast rate, that we over achieved with those two 5th place finishes. Harry then took it even further and got us into the champions league with a team that had Peter Crouch up front! If Harry hadn't taken his eye off the ball and fucked up with all that England cobblers and then demanding mega bucks, after the club stood by him through heart surgery and court cases; then we'd still be in the CL now I imagine.

But he did, and so we have a couple of seasons where we've lost a bit of ground. And as such we've fallen into the spoilt fan trap of now moaning because we don't smack every team by at least 3 goals to nil every game, and don't play like the ghost of '61 by way of Barce-bleeding-lona.

But get this... we're still a top 6 club. We are still shite loads better after a decade of fantastic growth. And we've kept relative ground with other clubs who are, in effect, receiving financial doping. I go to a lot of football matches around this city (because hey, I like football) from premier league to non league... and to hear us whinging about our problems of "only" being top 6 after going to places like Charlton who were nearly going out of business and dropping into League 1... or Raynes Park Vale having fund raising days at games just to keep the lights on in the changing rooms...

Personally I just love going to the Lane, attending a top flight football match... the whole shebang. I'm not going to spend that time complaining about it... otherwise its a waste of my time and money.

 

[Japhet]

I'm just a bit disappointed we didn't capitalise when our main rivals have been at a low ebb. Liverpool and Man Utd have both thrown money at their failures in recent years and I suspect Van Gaal will turn Utd around. We, on the other hand, acted almost apologetically for having gate-crashed a swanky party when we got in the CL. That was a chance missed to lay down a marker. I don't advocate putting the club in huge debt and think nothing will be resolved until we have a stadium sorted, but we could have done a bit more when we had the chance.

 

[Bofbro]

Waiting and hoping we would win the qualifying games to get in the CL, believing and excited that we would sign the players to take us forward, has been holding me back for a while now.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I'm just a bit disappointed we didn't capitalise when our main rivals have been at a low ebb. Liverpool and Man Utd have both thrown money at their failures in recent years and I suspect Van Gaal will turn Utd around. We, on the other hand, acted almost apologetically for having gate-crashed a swanky party when we got in the CL. That was a chance missed to lay down a marker. I don't advocate putting the club in huge debt and think nothing will be resolved until we have a stadium sorted, but we could have done a bit more when we had the chance.

I think this also. It's almost like we had a collective "Oh... fook it!!" and are now in a bit of a sulk.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

The 'Champions League' has a lot to answer for when it comes to fans expectations. Trust me people, get that 4th spot obsession off your back and Spurs become much more enjoyable to support.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

A lot of fans have trouble grasping the basics of how a club is run. We made the Champions League once but that doesn't make us a champions league level club. We just capitalised while Man City were still on the rise, Chelsea had a slight blip and Liverpool were in turmoil after the Gillette/Hicks debacle.

It was always going to be a brief flirtation as those clubs just threw money at new players to get them back on top. Money that we cannot compete with. We have the smallest stadium out of any of our rivals which means we can't have 5-6 players on 100k plus a week. The kind of money you need to pay the top players to stay with you, or sign others of proven quality, which ultimately gives you a better chance of staying in the top 4. That means we would have never have been able to keep Modric, Bale, Berbatov. Because that's the kind of money those players are worth in wages.

So saying we didn't build on our one season in the CL is irrelevant. As the only way we could have done this was by signing better quality players on big wages, which we simply couldn't afford. We will always be in a perilous position because we're gambling on potential rather than signing proven quality. Sometimes we will get it right, other times we won't. Until we are able to pay big wages to carry at least 4-5 players of proven talent it will always be a battle trying to progress.

It's frustrating but that is just the our financial realities until the new stadium is completed. There might be chances to sneak in the top 4 if one of the bigger teams slip up, or the talent we sign realise their potential together, but it will always be hard to build on it beacause of this inability to sign a few players of proven talent, or pay our talent what they can earn at bigger clubs.

I think supporting the team would be a lot more enjoyable for those negative fans if they took the time to understand this. Although i'm coming to the conclusion that failure to understand the reality is through stupidity rather than ignorance.

 

[SteveH]

Lets be very honest here. If we had shitloads of money and could buy in a similar manner to lets say Man U this window, these 'fans' would stop their bellyaching in an instant. They want success and are not interested in economics or new stadiums or how real life impacts on all things including football.

Reminds me of my conversation with an Arsenal fan after they won the cup he said about a week later, it meant nothing as Chelsea had done it so many times more. Now Arsenal are not my personal drug of choice when it come to football, but I truly believe the are a very well run club which we should be looking to emulate in the coming years. But it illustrated the yardstick that is Chelsea and City in the English game and with many of these grumpy people, you are a failure as a club if you not one.

IF we got bought out by a rich sugar daddy, part of my love for this club would wither. I'm personally enjoying watching us striving to overcome the like of Man U spending £250m in a calendar year, for me its an almost noble cause.

 

[eViL]

I'm sorry, but Redknapp had a squad that should have been competing for top 2, not scraping 4th.

Bad coaching and training was evident in the final third of each season, we reverted to long ball tactics, failed to rotate players that were obviously knackered, the list could go on.

Players thrive from support and the crowd need to realise this. If there's fans that can't get behind a team that attacked the way we did on Saturday, then I despair.

 

[sickboy_se]

I don't think the transfer fees are the actual problem when it comes to attracting top rank players. It's the salaries and club status. A CL club is always going to win a race for a player over a non CL club if the offers are similar.
And then the salaries, I'd say we probably have at least five players in the top of our salary range (Lloris, Verts, Paulinho, Ade, Soldado). I don't think that we can bring in another one in that range without any of those five leaving. And unloading players on that salary isn't as easy as flicking a switch either, the buying team would need to create room in their budget first etc.

But even if we could, those five aren't even making as much as the top earners in other clubs are. So to bring in anyone of that class (like a Di Maria, a Hazard, a Costa etc), we would need to pay even more than we are, which would in turn would lead to the other top earners wanting a raise, which would lead to the middle-earners wanting a raise and so on and we'll either be bankrupt or have a dissatisfied squad before we know it.

Even a player on a 50K a week salary, which I guess is sort of upper middle-range on a three year contract, that's a 7,5 million investment. Plus bonuses, add-ons, agent fees and signing fees...

So I would say that signing a player for 20 million is realistically actually at least a 35-40 million investment that the club need to be sure it can cover.

And it's not just the stadium size putting a limit on our income. Compared to the teams we want to compete with, like Pool, Arse, ManU etc, our international fanbase is actually rather small. That's also a factor, less membership fees, less merchandise sold, less sponsoring...

Don't get me wrong, I've been frustrated as f**k with Levy at times (read: Saha and Nelsen) and I think there's loads to be done when it comes to honest communication but it doesn't do anyone any good to at least not look at all the realities of the situation. I, myself, I demand that the team that's playing run the shit out themselves every game, shows heart, respects the shirt. And when they do, win or lose, I will cheer them on and hail them as f*****g gods. That's what I can do for the club.