AVB

[Graysonti]

I will of course give AVB more time, personally I will back him until he is sacked (because I feel it pointless not to)

My honest opinion however is that he will prove to be a failure when we look back at his time at the club (of course I desperately hope to be proven wrong)

I think Levy made a mistake hiring him, it was a big call to sack Harry but I don't think it was a mistake (if their relationship was untenable it was pointless keeping Harry in charge) but the AVB appointment smacked of the Ramos Saga and there was little to no evidence that AVB was actually a good manager.

AVB has had success with one club, in a different league at a club that is traditionally one of the powerhouses of that league......if anything what Ramos did with the proportionately weaker Sevilla team in Spain is probably more impressive than AVB running riot in Portugal and Europa with the likes of Falcao, Hulk and Mounthino at his disposal.

The only direct evidence we had was that he was a complete abject failure at Chelsea (for one reason or another) with a team capable of being the Champions of Europe.

Big big call by Levy, now it's up to him to have confidence in his own judgement and back the man he chose as the best for the job because I have not personally seen anything in his time with us or with Chelsea to suggest he was the right man for our job so Mr Levy must have seen something I have not and of course Mr Levy is the man with the knowledge and experience at running a football club while I am just a fan with my heart on my sleeve.

If I am in the end to have been right about AVB then in my eyes it will be Mr Levy who is the real failure in this saga and it should lead to him taking a back step away from the footballing side of affairs and concentrating on the business side like the new stadium and leave important footballing decisions like managerial hiring and firing and transfer business to someone with better judgement (like a DOF)

We have to give AVB time though surely? let's hope he and Levy have worked out a definitive strategy for how to take the club forward and even if this season is a massive step backwards the next two or three will be leaps forward as we buy the right players and mould our team the way AVB wants it and Levy and AVB can prove me (and many other fans) wrong and AVB will be the right man for the job and this is not another Ramos situation.

Great post

 

[StartingPrice]

RE Mrlilywhite's interesting and informative post: We have the ball winner, Sandro, Dembélé can play as a ball playing box-to-box midfielder. Clearly (and without getting into the ludicrous recriminations game) what we are lacking is the Modric/Moutinho player. What would have been ideal would have been persuading the little rodent to, like, actually honour his contract - at least for another year or so. Failing that, we really needed Moutinho, or similar. ATM, AVB is showing tactical adjustability, by not insisting on playing 4-3-3 - something that seems to have escaped the notice of those who insist either that he is tactically inflexible, or that he is repeating his Chelsea mistakes.

The only thing we can do until the transfer window opens, in regard to providing players better suited to how AVB prefers, is via promoting the youth. The article makes mention of young Pritchard (the Pritch ), but wouldn't young Tommy Carroll be a perfect foil for Sandro/Dembélé. He has that little bit of Modric-esque vision that Dembélé lacks, and with Sandro to do the ball winning and Dembélé to do the box-to-box ball winning/knitting of play, his lack of physical presence needn't be too much of a hinderance. I wouldn't think there would be any point in putting him in before Dembélé is fit, and I am still not sure that we would have the ideal front 3 for the system, anyway. But I would think it should be considered - and AVB clearly has him in mind, and has done since the Summer.

RE AM: I agree, with one small (or pretty fecking huge) exception - I have been saying for the last two years that Levy should step back and appoint a DOF (if that is what he wants) rather than acting like a surrogate DOF himself, and still think he should do this regardless of whether AVB succeeds or not.

 

[brasil_spur]

RE Mrlilywhite's interesting and informative post: We have the ball winner, Sandro, Dembélé can play as a ball playing box-to-box midfielder. Clearly (and without getting into the ludicrous recriminations game) what we are lacking is the Modric/Moutinho player. What would have been ideal would have been persuading the little rodent to, like, actually honour his contract - at least for another year or so. Failing that, we really needed Moutinho, or similar. ATM, AVB is showing tactical adjustability, by not insisting on playing 4-3-3 - something that seems to have escaped the notice of those who insist either that he is tactically inflexible, or that he is repeating his Chelsea mistakes.

The only thing we can do until the transfer window opens, in regard to providing players better suited to how AVB prefers, is via promoting the youth. The article makes mention of young Pritchard (the Pritch ), but wouldn't young Tommy Carroll be a perfect foil for Sandro/Dembélé. He has that little bit of Modric-esque vision that Dembélé lacks, and with Sandro to do the ball winning and Dembélé to do the box-to-box ball winning/knitting of play, his lack of physical presence needn't be too much of a hinderance. I wouldn't think there would be any point in putting him in before Dembélé is fit, and I am still not sure that we would have the ideal front 3 for the system, anyway. But I would think it should be considered - and AVB clearly has him in mind, and has done since the Summer.

RE AM: I agree, with one small (or pretty fecking huge) exception - I have been saying for the last two years that Levy should step back and appoint a DOF (if that is what he wants) rather than acting like a surrogate DOF himself, and still think he should do this regardless of whether AVB succeeds or not.

Agree with this.

We've been plagued by injuries to key players and then just as we looked like turning a corner yesterday when we were 1-0 up, almost 2-0 from a Lennon shot and were bossing the game we go down to 10 men.

Let's hope we bounce back quickly from this. A result against Lazio mid week would go a long way to regaining some faith, then a win over Wham and we could be back on track.

 

[AngerManagement]

RE Mrlilywhite's interesting and informative post: We have the ball winner, Sandro, Dembélé can play as a ball playing box-to-box midfielder. Clearly (and without getting into the ludicrous recriminations game) what we are lacking is the Modric/Moutinho player. What would have been ideal would have been persuading the little rodent to, like, actually honour his contract - at least for another year or so. Failing that, we really needed Moutinho, or similar. ATM, AVB is showing tactical adjustability, by not insisting on playing 4-3-3 - something that seems to have escaped the notice of those who insist either that he is tactically inflexible, or that he is repeating his Chelsea mistakes.

The only thing we can do until the transfer window opens, in regard to providing players better suited to how AVB prefers, is via promoting the youth. The article makes mention of young Pritchard (the Pritch ), but wouldn't young Tommy Carroll be a perfect foil for Sandro/Dembélé. He has that little bit of Modric-esque vision that Dembélé lacks, and with Sandro to do the ball winning and Dembélé to do the box-to-box ball winning/knitting of play, his lack of physical presence needn't be too much of a hinderance. I wouldn't think there would be any point in putting him in before Dembélé is fit, and I am still not sure that we would have the ideal front 3 for the system, anyway. But I would think it should be considered - and AVB clearly has him in mind, and has done since the Summer.

RE AM: I agree, with one small (or pretty fecking huge) exception - I have been saying for the last two years that Levy should step back and appoint a DOF (if that is what he wants) rather than acting like a surrogate DOF himself, and still think he should do this regardless of whether AVB succeeds or not.

As have I

 

[StartingPrice]

As have I

Which is fine...just that in the post I quoted it kinda sounded like it should be contingent upon AVBs success or failure.

 

[markiespurs]

I will of course give AVB more time, personally I will back him until he is sacked (because I feel it pointless not to)

My honest opinion however is that he will prove to be a failure when we look back at his time at the club (of course I desperately hope to be proven wrong)

I think Levy made a mistake hiring him, it was a big call to sack Harry but I don't think it was a mistake (if their relationship was untenable it was pointless keeping Harry in charge) but the AVB appointment smacked of the Ramos Saga and there was little to no evidence that AVB was actually a good manager.

Great post in general, but I especially agree with the bit above.

 

[AngerManagement]

Which is fine...just that in the post I quoted it kinda sounded like it should be contingent upon AVBs success or failure.

I meant it more as in "if Levy is proved to be correct with his judgement of AVB and brings in the players that he wants etc then all is fine and changes do not necessarily need to be made but if AVB proves not to be the right man for the job and or he fails because Levy does not back him with the right players then that will just further suggest Levy needs to remove himself from charge of direct footballing affairs"

 

[Spurger King]

I like AVB because he has a beard, like me.

I also have a similar voice the morning after chain smoking cigars and dining on smashed glass and scouring brush sandwiches.

Based on the above I believe it is important to support him for the rest of this season.

 

[StartingPrice]

I meant it more as in "if Levy is proved to be correct with his judgement of AVB and brings in the players that he wants etc then all is fine and changes do not necessarily need to be made but if AVB proves not to be the right man for the job and or he fails because Levy does not back him with the right players then that will just further suggest Levy needs to remove himself from charge of direct footballing affairs"

Which is why I made the distinction because, although I totally agreed with the rest of your post, I would have to say that even if AVB succeeds and even if Levy brings in the players that AVB wants, I still think it would be preferable if he stuck to being a Chairman* and got a DOF in - partly because I believe that would be for the long term benefit of the club, and partly so that he doesn't burn himself out and/or damage his health.
* Accepting, of course, that he might still get involved with special deals - like he did with the Modric one.

I like AVB because he has a beard, like me.

I also have a similar voice the morning after chain smoking cigars and dining on smashed glass and scouring brush sandwiches.

Based on the above I believe it is important to support him for the rest of this season.

Do you work in the Circus?

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

RE Mrlilywhite's interesting and informative post: We have the ball winner, Sandro, Dembélé can play as a ball playing box-to-box midfielder. Clearly (and without getting into the ludicrous recriminations game) what we are lacking is the Modric/Moutinho player. What would have been ideal would have been persuading the little rodent to, like, actually honour his contract - at least for another year or so. Failing that, we really needed Moutinho, or similar. ATM, AVB is showing tactical adjustability, by not insisting on playing 4-3-3 - something that seems to have escaped the notice of those who insist either that he is tactically inflexible, or that he is repeating his Chelsea mistakes.

The only thing we can do until the transfer window opens, in regard to providing players better suited to how AVB prefers, is via promoting the youth. The article makes mention of young Pritchard (the Pritch ), but wouldn't young Tommy Carroll be a perfect foil for Sandro/Dembélé. He has that little bit of Modric-esque vision that Dembélé lacks, and with Sandro to do the ball winning and Dembélé to do the box-to-box ball winning/knitting of play, his lack of physical presence needn't be too much of a hinderance. I wouldn't think there would be any point in putting him in before Dembélé is fit, and I am still not sure that we would have the ideal front 3 for the system, anyway. But I would think it should be considered - and AVB clearly has him in mind, and has done since the Summer.

RE AM: I agree, with one small (or pretty fecking huge) exception - I have been saying for the last two years that Levy should step back and appoint a DOF (if that is what he wants) rather than acting like a surrogate DOF himself, and still think he should do this regardless of whether AVB succeeds or not.

Funny thing is I think that a central midfield three of Sandro, Moutinho, and Dembele would dominate teams through sheer athleticism. Moutinho is fantastic on the ball, but people are generally quick to forget that he has a terrific engine as well. If we had the two players that AVB most coveted this summer (Moutinho and Willian), then I imagine that our league position would be very different.

 

[AngerManagement]

Funny thing is I think that a central midfield three of Sandro, Moutinho, and Dembele would dominate teams through sheer athleticism. Moutinho is fantastic on the ball, but people are generally quick to forget that he has a terrific engine as well. If we had the two players that AVB most coveted this summer (Moutinho and Willian), then I imagine that our league position would be very different.

Maybe but they're a very expensive couple of players and I don't think it was ever realistic to expect us to sign both, even less so now Willian has impressed in the CL against Chelsea and raised his profile more.

JM doesn't score goals so we would still have lacked in that sense from midfield although we would be very solid and athletic with him, Sandro and Dembele has our first string and Parker covering

For my money even if we did sign him on that final day we'd still be lacking in the creative midfield area that neither Sig nor Dempsey have filled and we'd still be weak upfront with just Ade and Defoe to choose from.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Even if we got a DoF, Levy would still interfere

He's a control freak. Good for business but not ideal at managing people.

 

[shelfboy68]

Great post

Agree with this but my worry is we don't look like we are going in the right direction at all to me we certainly have gone backwards.

But if we look at Liverpool for example who started the season with the same situation a new young manager they actually seem to be improving to me they can actually defend and are playing some fairly good stuff and all this without their most expensive striker.

A draw at Chelsea was not to be sniffed at and they really look to be moving in the right direction but we however are going backwards as we can't defend nor keep possession long enough or seem to be able to shut teams down.

Looks like they got the real deal in Rodgers where as we are left to ponder on what might have been that really guts us as fans but I don't go with excuses about injuries as all clubs suffer those so that don't wash.

All we can do now is just see where we go from here now and hope he can grab a couple of wins somewhere to ease his pressure but not sure if we continue to slide can we look to bring any players of quality into the side.

 

[hybridsoldier]

wouldn't young Tommy Carroll be a perfect foil for Sandro/Dembélé.

Yes he would - but my friend, do our angry colleagues have the patience to give Carroll the time to adapt to playing at the PL pace and difficulty level? And also accept a few poor performances from him and a few not so good results in the interim?

Evidence, ie. this thread!, would say no!

Its funny how many people on here get angry and say "play the kids because so and so (usually Jenas) is fakin useless!", then when we play the kids (Naughton and Walker for example), 1 or 2 bad performances and its "sell/drop/have a word with the fakkers!"

I would love to see Carroll playing ahead of Dempsey, and would accept that as a result the results and performances may suffer but so many people want us to do everything:

- buy £20m + players like Moutinho and Leandro Damaio
- play the youngsters like Carroll and Coudibaly
- Finish ahead of Arsenal
- Finish in a CL spot
- Have a new stadium without affecting the transfer budget
- But stay in Tottenham and keep the name
- Play an attacking and attractive style of football
- Batter teams
- Not concede late goals
- Not have any red cards....nay....no bookings!

Ok I am being a bit silly now but people want it all and are unrealistic, they have no sense of reality when it comes to Spurs in my opinion. Victims of our own successes I suppose.

 

[faymantaray]

Sorry, haven't been on since the game.. has AVB's post match interview been discussed yet? Sounds like he's tripping a bit to be honest.

"Yes, we suffered but there were chances that, had we converted and brought the score to only one goal difference, it could have gone our way. We were very, very good from the first minute to the last, with 11 men and with 10 men. We were in control from the first minute to the last minute."

 

[spurs mental]

Agree with this but my worry is we don't look like we are going in the right direction at all to me we certainly have gone backwards.

But if we look at Liverpool for example who started the season with the same situation a new young manager they actually seem to be improving to me they can actually defend and are playing some fairly good stuff and all this without their most expensive striker.

A draw at Chelsea was not to be sniffed at and they really look to be moving in the right direction but we however are going backwards as we can't defend nor keep possession long enough or seem to be able to shut teams down.

Looks like they got the real deal in Rodgers where as we are left to ponder on what might have been that really guts us as fans but I don't go with excuses about injuries as all clubs suffer those so that don't wash.

All we can do now is just see where we go from here now and hope he can grab a couple of wins somewhere to ease his pressure but not sure if we continue to slide can we look to bring any players of quality into the side.

Sorry, you're wrong, in reference to Rodgers I believe. In my opinion anyway. A few weeks ago, when we hadn't lost in 6/7, only to come up against Chelsea, City and Arse, you would have said very different. Just because they got a draw at Chelsea (Liverpool always raise their game against the bigger teams, notoriously) and a win over Wigan, you are saying this. It WAS the other way around, and people were questioning Rodgers only a few weeks ago. By the way, we're still ahead of Liverpool, FYI.

 

[shelfboy68]

Sorry, you're wrong, in reference to Rodgers I believe. In my opinion anyway. A few weeks ago, when we hadn't lost in 6/7, only to come up against Chelsea, City and Arse, you would have said very different. Just because they got a draw at Chelsea (Liverpool always raise their game against the bigger teams, notoriously) and a win over Wigan, you are saying this. It WAS the other way around, and people were questioning Rodgers only a few weeks ago. By the way, we're still ahead of Liverpool, FYI.

Yes your right it is only your opinion but for me the signs are that he is slowing getting it right they have a quality front man and a better defence than ours.

We have one of the worst goals conceded and third worst defeats but your right in that they raise their game for the big ones its a pity we can't isn't it.

And yes I know we are above them for now but with the hammers and Liverpool to come I think that may well change.

 

[spurs mental]

Yes your right it is only your opinion but for me the signs are that he is slowing getting it right they have a quality front man and a better defence than ours.

We have one of the worst goals conceded and third worst defeats but your right in that they raise their game for the big ones its a pity we can't isn't it.

And yes I know we are above them for now but with the hammers and Liverpool to come I think that may well change.

We're due some big players back in our team, most notably Dembele, Parker and Ekotto. I think with all three back, hopefully by the end of November our team will look a lot better and so will our results.

Lloris
Walker Caulker/Gallas Verts Ekotto
Sandro Parker
Lennon Dembele Bale
Defoe

Looks a lot better and more defensively strong than

Friedel
Walker Gallas Caulker Verts
Sandro Hudd
Lennon Dempsey Bale
Defoe

Wouldn't you agree?

It's stronger, both in attack and defends and if we can get a team like that out on the pitch in the mental month of football that is December then I think we'll be in good shape come January, and with Kaboul back in the fold by then, hopefully adding a striker and maybe replacing Hudd with a creative player (I'm looking at you Moutinho) then we will be up there in the running again.

And I don't for one second think Liverpo will be finishing ahead of us this season. There will be 3/4 teams ahead of us at the end of the season (United, City, Chelsea, Arse) provided we get our big players back, and don't forget Ade to come back after the African Nations, for the final few months, the most vital months I might add, where we faltered last season.

Obviously right now we're doing poorly, but that's nothing after we win v Wham and win v Pool.

 

[shelfboy68]

We're due some big players back in our team, most notably Dembele, Parker and Ekotto. I think with all three back, hopefully by the end of November our team will look a lot better and so will our results.

Lloris
Walker Caulker/Gallas Verts Ekotto
Sandro Parker
Lennon Dembele Bale
Defoe

Looks a lot better and more defensively strong than

Friedel
Walker Gallas Caulker Verts
Sandro Hudd
Lennon Dempsey Bale
Defoe

Wouldn't you agree?

It's stronger, both in attack and defends and if we can get a team like that out on the pitch in the mental month of football that is December then I think we'll be in good shape come January, and with Kaboul back in the fold by then, hopefully adding a striker and maybe replacing Hudd with a creative player (I'm looking at you Moutinho) then we will be up there in the running again.

And I don't for one second think Liverpo will be finishing ahead of us this season. There will be 3/4 teams ahead of us at the end of the season (United, City, Chelsea, Arse) provided we get our big players back, and don't forget Ade to come back after the African Nations, for the final few months, the most vital months I might add, where we faltered last season.

Obviously right now we're doing poorly, but that's nothing after we win v Wham and win v Pool.

I hope your right with your optimism I agree with lloris being given a chance now but I'm yet to be convinced with the rest so lets see eh.

 

[spurs mental]

I hope your right with your optimism I agree with lloris being given a chance now but I'm yet to be convinced with the rest so lets see eh.

I've been a firm believer that if we get our first team out on the pitch, rather than the shit from Hudd and Dempsey we've been subjected to, we'll hit form.

So ye, we need to wait and see, but there's reason to be optimistic.