AvB

[mpickard2087]

Central/free role. The difference between tactical genius and tactically inept I guess.

Norwich (a) one of our best performances.

Some fickle fuckers out there, play the ball not the man.

To be fair I think he started nominally left with license to roam, maybe too much on occasion (Not the Norwich game, games after that... QPR away comes to mind) clogging up the middle and leaving us with no width.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

We have won how many games through last minute/last few minute goals from one of the worlds best players? Sorry boys but I don't put that down to tactical genius when Bale is picking the ball up off out centre backs because he's the only fucker capable of making things happen.

Nor do I call playing Naughton at left back a tactical master stroke. Or the fact our attacking movement is like watching dead ants.

I'm a massive fan of AVB the 'brand' and I'm more than happy for him to be our Coach, but I'm honestly not convinced by him tactically at all.

I'm not bothered about it not being popular, but I honestly believe if we had no Bale, we don't get anywhere near 5th.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

To be fair I think he started nominally left with license to roam, maybe too much on occasion (Not the Norwich game, games after that... QPR away comes to mind) clogging up the middle and leaving us with no width.

I don't disagree. Same happened this year. Only this year he banged 7+ goals in from 25 yards.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Central/free role. The difference between tactical genius and tactically inept I guess.

Norwich (a) one of our best performances.

Some fickle fuckers out there, play the ball not the man.

i'm lost here. you said he played the exact same role last season? we are talking about bale right? because he never played there, not even once. that was mr van der vaart's job. bale was a left winger all season bar a couple of unsuccessful outings on the right, but never central.

the norwich game was sandro, parker, modric central, bale left, vdv right, ade up top. he may have scored a goal from running centrally but only because he happened to pop up in that position on the break .. that's not the same role he's playing now.

 

[Mr Pink]

Yes I have but it was worth noting from the 8th place down the teams have scored alot less than normal, for instance west brom have a had a great season behind liverpool but only 10 points above sunderland in 17th!

We have had alot of individual moments save us and paper over the cracks but signs are promising that AVB will be great for us but I dont think I can judge a manager in one season especially when he has had alot go wrong for him

If you're referring to Bale, its interesting that AVB has got him to move up another level as opposed to Harry. Not a slight on Harry but credit to AVB, he's contributed to Bale hitting world class status and showing that form more consistently than last season.

The team is now very much built round our best player, I certainly don't have a problem with that per se when we've just recorded our best ever points tally in the Premiership.

All this without him getting the players he wanted as well, I assume at least, to an extent. So with that in mind he's done ever so well to utilise and get the best out of Bale in the way he has.

 

[mpickard2087]

If you're referring to Bale, its interesting that AVB has got him to move up another level as opposed to Harry. Not a slight on Harry but credit to AVB, he's contributed to Bale hitting world class status and showing that form more consistently than last season.

The team is now very much built round our best player, I certainly don't have a problem with that per se when we've just recorded our best ever points tally in the Premiership.

All this without him getting the players he wanted as well, I assume at least, to an extent. So with that in mind he's done ever so well to utilise and get the best out of Bale in the way he has.

Bale this season hasn't had Modric and Van der Vaart to fight for the ball with, he has free reign to do what he wants. The tactic is basically give it to Bale and let him shoot from all angles, fortunately he is very fucking good at it. I'm not sure there is a huge amount of credit to AVB for this, only thing would be recognising he is by far and away the best player, can shoot well, so give him the ball. Maybe moving him inside, but he could do the same thing from a wide angle.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

i'm lost here. you said he played the exact same role last season? we are talking about bale right? because he never played there, not even once. that was mr van der vaart's job. bale was a left winger all season bar a couple of unsuccessful outings on the right, but never central.

the norwich game was sandro, parker, modric central, bale left, vdv right, ade up top. he may have scored a goal from running centrally but only because he happened to pop up in that position on the break .. that's not the same role he's playing now.

I said he played the same role. As in the free role. You can call it whatever you want. Which I know you will to prove a point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-role-as-club-chase-Premier-League-glory.html

This has nothing to do with Redknapp, or any of the other ****s who have managed us or Gareth Bale in the past. This is about AVB and how I view him after his first season.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Bale this season hasn't had Modric and Van der Vaart to fight for the ball with, he has free reign to do what he wants. The tactic is basically give it to Bale and let him shoot from all angles, fortunately he is very fucking good at it. I'm not sure there is a huge amount of credit to AVB for this, only thing would be recognising he is by far and away the best player, can shoot well, so give him the ball. Maybe moving him inside, but he could do the same thing from a wide angle.

Exactly.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

all I know is, put 'Arry in charge of this season's squad, and we don't do as well as we have. there'd have been no tactics, a stubborn insistence on 4-4-2 (whether we had the players or not), constant moaning about lack of players/being down to bare bones, and a steady stream of excuses after big games about how we "battered" [insert team here] like he'd never seen anyone batter them before but we were just unlucky. plus we'd have tanked the Europa League again, and the team would still be running on empty by March because they'd not been rotated properly.

on the other hand, put AVB in charge of last season's squad, and I'm pretty certain we finish 3rd

 

[Mr Pink]

Bale this season hasn't had Modric and Van der Vaart to fight for the ball with, he has free reign to do what he wants. The tactic is basically give it to Bale and let him shoot from all angles, fortunately he is very fucking good at it. I'm not sure there is a huge amount of credit to AVB for this, only thing would be recognising he is by far and away the best player, can shoot well, so give him the ball. Maybe moving him inside, but he could do the same thing from a wide angle.

That's my point though, when I said that AVB has built the team around our best player. Ok he's moved him inside and its a simple game plan, get the ball to him as much as possible but he's still had an influence. Its very obvious that they have a great relationship and I'm sure AVB recognised the importance of fostering such a relationship with our most talented player. Things we aren't privy to like fuelling his confidence and self belief.

Anyhow the main point for me is that I find it difficult to comprehend that some have such reservations given what's he achieved with a weaker squad this season.

I'm still convinced had the League been the absolute priority we would of been very close to smashing 80 points as well. When you consider the squad we had last year coupled by the fact we wrote off the Europa League completely - well for me, that puts it very much in perspective.

 

[noahrobert]

I love AVB as our boss. I fail to see why some dont. Tactically we are different to the Harry years. We play with purpose and intelligence. Even my Arsensl mates (and most of my mates are Arsenal) noticed it very early in the season. To quote my mate Byron " you lot are are on some next level this year, I'm worried. Last year you was all kick it about and hope something happens, this year you playing moves on purpose" in reference to movement and balls played. My Utd mate Spencer wishes Utd could play like us, "your boys owned us this year, I want us playing like you lot"

 

[Spurs_Bear]

That's my point though, when I said that AVB has built the team around our best player. Ok he's moved him inside and its a simple game plan, get the ball to him as much as possible but he's still had an influence. Its very obvious that they have a great relationship and I'm sure AVB recognised the importance of fostering such a relationship with our most talented player. Things we aren't privy to like fuelling his confidence and self belief.

Anyhow the main point for me is that I find it difficult to comprehend that some have such reservations given what's he achieved with a weaker squad this season.

I'm still convinced had the League been the absolute priority we would of been very close to smashing 80 points as well. When you consider the squad we had last year coupled by the fact we wrote off the Europa League completely - well for me, that puts it very much in perspective.

Mr Pink, honest question. If AVB has instructed the team to play round Bale so to speak, how do you explain the large number of free kicks and goals from outside the box where he's picked the ball up, beaten players and smashed the ball in the top bag? West Brom/Norwich/West Ham/Southampton/Sunderland etc? The team is not set up for every bugger to move out the way for Roy of the Rovers to take on the world? I over egg the point there but you not what I mean and how I mean it.

I'm not saying I'm not happy with AVB, I've said the exact opposite in this thread, I just don't see this next level thing/hard work/much improved organisation thing that everyone else seems to see. I think there's been a lot more contributing factors to us being where we are. One of the points being what beats1 said about the standard of the league.

I don't agree with the Europa League thing either, we apparently took that competition seriously, yet our football was the most turgid I've seen for a few years, it was almost like we relaxed in that competition and used it as a rest from the premier league. Inter Milan (h) aside for obvious reasons.

 

[JerryGarcia]

We have won how many games through last minute/last few minute goals from one of the worlds best players? Sorry boys but I don't put that down to tactical genius when Bale is picking the ball up off out centre backs because he's the only fucker capable of making things happen.

Nor do I call playing Naughton at left back a tactical master stroke. Or the fact our attacking movement is like watching dead ants.

I'm a massive fan of AVB the 'brand' and I'm more than happy for him to be our Coach, but I'm honestly not convinced by him tactically at all.

I'm not bothered about it not being popular, but I honestly believe if we had no Bale, we don't get anywhere near 5th.

I keep reading this in the comments sections on Sky Sports from Arsenal fans (no offence Spurs Bear, I don't mean to lump you in with them) but if we didn't have Bale then we'd have someone else. The fact is we do have Bale and although he's won us loads of points, that's just what world class players do. We need to surround him with a bit more quality next season to take the burden off.

AVB set the team up to make the most out of Bale's ability once it became clear what he was capable of. He can still improve as a manager but I wouldn't swap him for anyone else to be honest. My only worry is he's said in interviews that he doesn't want a long managerial career, I'd love him to still be here in 10 years though.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

agree with you. all this postulating about where Team A would be without Player B is ultimately irrelevant until that situation becomes a reality.

 

[Tit&Ham]

Mr Pink, honest question. If AVB has instructed the team to play round Bale so to speak, how do you explain the large number of free kicks and goals from outside the box where he's picked the ball up, beaten players and smashed the ball in the top bag? West Brom/Norwich/West Ham/Southampton/Sunderland etc? The team is not set up for every bugger to move out the way for Roy of the Rovers to take on the world? I over egg the point there but you not what I mean and how I mean it.

I'm not saying I'm not happy with AVB, I've said the exact opposite in this thread, I just don't see this next level thing/hard work/much improved organisation thing that everyone else seems to see. I think there's been a lot more contributing factors to us being where we are. One of the points being what beats1 said about the standard of the league.

I don't agree with the Europa League thing either, we apparently took that competition seriously, yet our football was the most turgid I've seen for a few years, it was almost like we relaxed in that competition and used it as a rest from the premier league. Inter Milan (h) aside for obvious reasons.

I'm disagreeing with this one.
1. Bale scores from every angle and distance - yes. But how can you be so sure it's not AVBs man-management that has led him to do this? Last year he scored a lot less (no AVB) - this year he scored a bunch (AVB)
2. Last year Bale seemed to performe worse when drifting into the middle (No AVB) - this year he's done very well in the middle (AVB)
3. Last year, when Bale had bad performances nothing happened (No AVB) - This year he's being shifted left/middle/right with great success (AVB).

4. Have we taken a step forward? I think so, yes. Take into consideration that both Defoe and Adebadebayor has performed below par. When Defoe had his days pre-christmas we had a good run. When Ade played well the last 4-5 games we had a good run. I believe we have a clear purpose on our game - but the players have to perform as well!

5. The only things i don't like so far with AVB is:
- Defending: We need a better CB than Daws (Love Daws btw), and we need some speed next to Verthongen when playing a high line. AVB should have gone for Caulker all the way, cause I believe he would have grown into the player we want/need. When using Daws and Vert he should have changed the tactics, e.g not so high line.
- Deep runs: AVB should have focused more on making the midfielders/defenders run from deep when playing a 10-man defence.

I can see you are just trying to make a point, and thats fair, but I have never in 20 years supporting felt so good about the way we are going. If some players (defoe, Adebayor, Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Ekotto, Holtby) had delivered the quality we expected, we would have been second or third.

When it comes to the Europa League, I believe it was too much for us, but I also believe that this was AVBs intention. If we are to become a top European team we have to get used to playing in several competitions like Chelsea did this year.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

Yes I have but it was worth noting from the 8th place down the teams have scored alot less than normal, for instance west brom have a had a great season behind liverpool but only 10 points above sunderland in 17th!

We have had alot of individual moments save us and paper over the cracks but signs are promising that AVB will be great for us but I dont think I can judge a manager in one season especially when he has had alot go wrong for him

I can see where you are coming from. As long as you aren't expecting perfection. Fergie made mistakes this year but had other factors assisting him and more quality in his squad.

AVB has produced our best points total with far from our best squad after 1 season and even then our most important defender and midfielder were missing most of the season.

I'm still not convinced its possible for Spurs to challenge for the title with the Prem structured how it is but... If any manager we have had could, it's AVB.

 

[Mr Pink]

Mr Pink, honest question. If AVB has instructed the team to play round Bale so to speak, how do you explain the large number of free kicks and goals from outside the box where he's picked the ball up, beaten players and smashed the ball in the top bag? West Brom/Norwich/West Ham/Southampton/Sunderland etc? The team is not set up for every bugger to move out the way for Roy of the Rovers to take on the world? I over egg the point there but you not what I mean and how I mean it.

I'm not saying I'm not happy with AVB, I've said the exact opposite in this thread, I just don't see this next level thing/hard work/much improved organisation thing that everyone else seems to see. I think there's been a lot more contributing factors to us being where we are. One of the points being what beats1 said about the standard of the league.

I don't agree with the Europa League thing either, we apparently took that competition seriously, yet our football was the most turgid I've seen for a few years, it was almost like we relaxed in that competition and used it as a rest from the premier league. Inter Milan (h) aside for obvious reasons.

When I say the team is built round him, I mean more that Bale is seen as our best player and I'm sure AVB instructs them to feed and look for him as much as possible. I don't mean every phase of play has to be designed with Bale in mind.

Whilst I think the League being weaker is a fair point to acknowledge, its a long way from being the most significant - a long way IMO.

The facts are clear, he has amassed our best points tally ever in the Premiership in his first season which was always going to bring pressure given the adversity from the media as a result from his time at Chelsea. He's incredibly young in managerial terms and whilst quality players did arrive we lost King, Modric and VDV. Our squad on the whole was weaker this season which more than offsets against the League being weaker IMO.

With regards to the Europa League he was still fielding first choice elevens regardless of the difference in performances in some games. He was ambitious enough to try and win the thing and keep us on course for a top four finish. My concern was always the squad wasn't good enough to cope with both, and deliver on both - so it proved, IMO anyway. I'm sure it served as a real learning experience though and he'll better equipped to cope with both next season from having this season's experience and hopefully a better squad.

This is a guy who's at the start of his managerial career. When you consider all the above and the fact that he's clearly intelligent, he's going to absorb a hell of a lot and can only get better IMO.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

if the league is weak this year, wasn't it also weak last year?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

if the league is weak this year, wasn't it also weak last year?

Yeah pretty weak, but this year it's even weaker.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I'm disagreeing with this one.
1. Bale scores from every angle and distance - yes. But how can you be so sure it's not AVBs man-management that has led him to do this? Last year he scored a lot less (no AVB) - this year he scored a bunch (AVB)
2. Last year Bale seemed to performe worse when drifting into the middle (No AVB) - this year he's done very well in the middle (AVB)
3. Last year, when Bale had bad performances nothing happened (No AVB) - This year he's being shifted left/middle/right with great success (AVB).

4. Have we taken a step forward? I think so, yes. Take into consideration that both Defoe and Adebadebayor has performed below par. When Defoe had his days pre-christmas we had a good run. When Ade played well the last 4-5 games we had a good run. I believe we have a clear purpose on our game - but the players have to perform as well!

5. The only things i don't like so far with AVB is:
- Defending: We need a better CB than Daws (Love Daws btw), and we need some speed next to Verthongen when playing a high line. AVB should have gone for Caulker all the way, cause I believe he would have grown into the player we want/need. When using Daws and Vert he should have changed the tactics, e.g not so high line.
- Deep runs: AVB should have focused more on making the midfielders/defenders run from deep when playing a 10-man defence.

I can see you are just trying to make a point, and thats fair, but I have never in 20 years supporting felt so good about the way we are going. If some players (defoe, Adebayor, Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Ekotto, Holtby) had delivered the quality we expected, we would have been second or third.

When it comes to the Europa League, I believe it was too much for us, but I also believe that this was AVBs intention. If we are to become a top European team we have to get used to playing in several competitions like Chelsea did this year.

So to play the old devil here, if you're praising AVB's man-management for Bale, why are you not looking on the opposite terms for those that haven't performed as expected. Cant just be all the fault of the players surely?