Benny, Bale and teh left hand side

[Hoowl]

I'm one of those who sees Bale as a long term left back who can offer that X factor against teams we've struggled to break down in the past. However, I have to admit that the Ekotto/Bale left hand side looked very solid defensively and going forward at the end of last season. So is it really worth breaking this up?

Bale and Benny are both left footed and good athletes. They can double up on opposing wingers when we want to keep it tight (like against Arsenal) and either of them can overlap and put crosses into the box. Each of the two have limitations, Ekottos range of passing isn't fantastic and Bale is still slightly naieve defensivly but playing both together seems to make these faults less critical and means the whole left hand side is bigger than a sum of its parts.

The most common option last season was Ekotto at LB with Modric on the left wing. This is how we started last year, but that was before Bales resurgence made it very hard to justify leaving him out of the team. With either Ekotto or Bale at LB and Modric at LW the limitations of Ekotto and Bale come to the fore again. Modric on the left is basically a free role so he doesn't offer a huge amount of cover and Bale could strugle defensively. Furthermore, Modric roaming means the LB has to man the whole left on their own and Ekottos passing restricts our play when the Croation moves inside.

Whether it's a 442 or 451 we're going to play, I find it hard to think beyond playing Bale at LM and Ekotto at LB, at least until Bale improves the defensive side of him game. This obviously has the knock on effect about where to fit in Modric/Sandro/Palacios/Huddlestone, let alone the talk about our strikers but I think we need to concentrate on building a team that works as a whole rather than a group of individuals.

 

[guy5]

I think the Form of Bale from January onwards was a massive part of us getting fourth. What Bale does give us is the option of being more attack minded whether from the start or during a game. I.e when chasing a game it is very easy to take off BAE drop Bale into LB without losing to much attacking threat and to bring on another forward minded player to play Left side midfield without the need to change the shape of the team.

I think it likely that Bales starting position next season may well depend on the fixture, i.e will he play LB away to united probably not, whereas Home to Blackpool very likely.

The modern game is not picking the same 11 game in game out its about horses for courses.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Well put and i agree with you, but it does lend itself to the 451, with Modric playing behind a striker more than the 442 which, depending on who we sign before the window closes, is starting to look cramped and hard work against some teams.

Bale's defensive positioning is something they need to keep an eye on - much more the wingback than the fullback, but Disco's is fantastic. As you say, it's much more his passing, or lack of in some situations, that needs addressing. Bale also needs to think about who his options are when he reaches the touchline and puts a cross in - last night we had Keane and Modric doing all the running up front and he was sailing in lobs for them - why? Play to their feet, save the cocktails for Crouch. Hope this isn't a habit he's got into and just this game.

Wonder where Niko is going to slot into this new look lineup too?

Sandro is still an unknown quantity for me at the moment - worries me that this appears to be the case for most of our squad as well. This close to the new season starting, i'm wondering what the hold up is. Wherever he fits in to Harrys plans, i don't expect him to stroll into the starting eleven.

 

[mil1lion]

It isn't too unlike the Lennon/Charlie combo on the right hand side. It certainly offers more balance to the side. I would mix it up. I do think we can get away with Bale at left back in a fair number of games, especially at home.

There aren't too many quality right wingers in the EPL, and we have one of them. So I don't see too many teams causing trouble down that side. Only against the top 3 and maybe Man City can I see the need for the 2 of them down the left.

I think there will be plenty of games where we should play 2 up top aswell. So by having Bale left back, it would free up space in midfield for Modric to roam forward.

 

[Hoowl]

Well put and i agree with you, but it does lend itself to the 451, with Modric playing behind a striker more than the 442 which, depending on who we sign before the window closes, is starting to look cramped and hard work against some teams.

Bale's defensive positioning is something they need to keep an eye on - much more the wingback than the fullback, but Disco's is fantastic. As you say, it's much more his passing, or lack of in some situations, that needs addressing. Bale also needs to think about who his options are when he reaches the touchline and puts a cross in - last night we had Keane and Modric doing all the running up front and he was sailing in lobs for them - why? Play to their feet, save the cocktails for Crouch. Hope this isn't a habit he's got into and just this game.

Wonder where Niko is going to slot into this new look lineup too?

Sandro is still an unknown quantity for me at the moment - worries me that this appears to be the case for most of our squad as well. This close to the new season starting, i'm wondering what the hold up is. Wherever he fits in to Harrys plans, i don't expect him to stroll into the starting eleven.

It does lend itself to 451 but then we have the problems about getting in a striker who can lead the line and getting enough goals from midfield. I'm also still a bit sceptical about Modric taking the responsibility of running the game when behind the striker in a 451 but we'll see .

It's good to have options for different games and I guess Harry will have to experiment until he get attacking/defending balance of the team right. Injuries and the number of games will probably force us into different combinations and we may fluke one that works (it's a bit harsh to say Bale coming back into the fold was a fluke, I guess you could say he took his chance, but I don't think he would have played as much had Ekotto not got injured).

I don't expect Sandro to walk straight into the team, coming from such a different league/culture/country etc. If he does work out, he looks like someone who is more suited to a 451 Makelele role that playing in a 442. However, I'm still pretty sure we'll generally play 442 from the start in most games due to our striker situation (we've got 4, none of whom can really play up front on their own) and the lack of goals from midfield.

 

[gregga]

I think the Form of Bale from January onwards was a massive part of us getting fourth. What Bale does give us is the option of being more attack minded whether from the start or during a game. I.e when chasing a game it is very easy to take off BAE drop Bale into LB without losing to much attacking threat and to bring on another forward minded player to play Left side midfield without the need to change the shape of the team.

I think it likely that Bales starting position next season may well depend on the fixture, i.e will he play LB away to united probably not, whereas Home to Blackpool very likely.

The modern game is not picking the same 11 game in game out its about horses for courses.

Yeah this is spot on. I expect Benny to get around 30 or so starts next season, and a fair few sub appearances.

Bale should definitely start almost every game when fit though as there is no more talented player in our squad.

 

[chadders]

I thought this was going to be a song lyrics thread!

Imagine loads of stoned yids singing to the tune of "Pass the Dutchie"

"Pass to Bale on the left hand side"

 

[Gassin's finest]

I say you just play your best players for that position. Benni is a much better defender than Bale and Bale is a much better attacking player than Benni. Picks itself if you ask me, Benni LB and Bale LW.

 

[nicdic]

Modern football is a squad game, both will get games, and lots of them, some with each other and some behind Modric.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It's all very complicated because you have to get the right balance all over the pitch.

I don't think that long term Huddlestone and Modric will be a good central pairing. Yes they did well at times last season but ultimately I think they'd get overrun more often than not.

So Modders either plays with Palacios (or Sandro) meaning BAE and Bale can both play or he moves to the left (nominally) meaning Bale probably moves to full back.

All this of course assumes we play 4-4-2 which is far from certain. If we go 4-3-3 then I think Bale has to play at left back and BAE probably gets dropped.

So all in all...I don't know. But it's good to have all of these options.

 

[nicdic]

IMO a player like Palacios is a lot less important when you have a midfield of Hudd and Modric, they won't get over run, their positioning and possession is better, and there's less need to make last ditch tackles.

 

[Coyboy]

Huddlestone's possession isn't better than Palacios'.

 

[nicdic]

Huddlestone's possession isn't better than Palacios'.

Have you forgotten Wilson's inability to pass the ball? I love him, but possession isn't his strong point.

 

[Hoowl]

IMO a player like Palacios is a lot less important when you have a midfield of Hudd and Modric, they won't get over run, their positioning and possession is better, and there's less need to make last ditch tackles.

I think Huddlstone is probably one of the most import players in our formation because he can move the ball to the flanks allowing Lennon and Bale options to attack. Modric is technically good but his longer range passing is actually lacking at times. Palacios is okay if he keeps it simple but tends to lose it when he get's more ambitious.

Modric and Huddlestone looked great against the 5 man midfields of Arsenal and Chelsea but they had quite restained games and sat quite deep with us countering (less so against Chelsea). They might find it harder against team who sit back and try to counter against us and we might benefit from the pace and tenacity of Palcios covering. However, in games like this we can probably afford to have Bale at LB and Modric on the left.

 

[talkshowhost86]

IMO a player like Palacios is a lot less important when you have a midfield of Hudd and Modric, they won't get over run, their positioning and possession is better, and there's less need to make last ditch tackles.

I'm still not convinced by them as a central pairing for the long term. If you look at Barca/Spain who are the best in the world at keeping possession, they still have that player who sits and who is positionally disciplined and allows Xavi and Iniesta to play their stuff (in this analogy Hudd and Modric are Xavi and Iniesta...just go with it).

I think if we play Modric and Hudd in a 4-4-2 then they don't have that protection and it may not always work.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Agree with a lot of what's been said

If we didn't bring in anyone else (which I dearly hope isn't the case, but...) my starting line up would be:

------------- Gomes

Charlie -- Dawson -- King/Seb -- BAE

Lennon --- Modric -- Hudd/WP -- Bale

--------- Defoe ---- Pav/Crouch

A couple of 'not sures' in there, but essentially something along those lines. I think our best performances last year were with that line up, and I don't see any reason to change that.

As has been suggested, if we need a bit extra in attack, we put Bale at LB, and shoft around - maybe move Modric to LM, bring on a creative CM (errr....we'll just have to buy one), or bring on Niko

Either way, some good options

But for f*ck sake, can we not just buy a good striker....please!

 

[Coyboy]

Have you forgotten Wilson's inability to pass the ball? I love him, but possession isn't his strong point.

No, if one of our central midfielders didn't have the ability to pass the ball, it would be pretty memorable. As it is, it is just bullshit.

Wilson Palacios had a better pass completion rate than Tom Huddlestone.

 

[C-oops]

Bugger

Just said this on in the bAE thread

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1888995#post1888995

 

[Ron Burgundy]

No, if one of our central midfielders didn't have the ability to pass the ball, it would be pretty memorable. As it is, it is just bullshit.

Wilson Palacios had a better pass completion rate than Tom Huddlestone.

Don't think you can read anything into those stats - the passes Tommy attempts are much more difficult to execute

It would take a brave, or highly biased character, to suggest that the passing ability of these two is miles apart, and I don't mean in favour of Wilson - much as I love the guy

 

[Leachie]

I actually think we might see Bale spend a bit of time on the bench this season. Reason being that his inclusion does cause some headaches in team selection but mainly because he is still a youngster and is developing.

Personally I don't see it as a bad thing as it will take some pressure off him and he will likely have an impact when he comes on.