Benny, Bale and teh left hand side

[DC_Boy]

not sure where i stand on the Bale situation

he's looking like two players in one ATM, so there is a temptation to play him at LB

much depends on BAE's form and new signings

I'd like us to get another left sided player in and see some more competition on that side

i think modric and hudd look good in CM

it's a squad game - we need to strengthen our squad - and take it from there

danny rose/townsend may play a fair bit on the left between them so that's another option

 

[Coyboy]

Don't think you can read anything into those stats - the passes Tommy attempts are much more difficult to execute

It would take a brave, or highly biased character, to suggest that the passing ability of these two is miles apart, and I don't mean in favour of Wilson - much as I love the guy

I don't think so, not always-not to the extent that the difference is 5% in favour of Palacios. He may attempt longer, more difficult passes but then at the very least they are pretty much on a par. You would have to ask why he is attempting such passes when few, therefore, come off. It's a debate for another day.

But the fact remains that Palacios is not a poor passer, on the contrary he is one of our best, just behind Modric. There are just instances when he plays a shit pass, fans see it, magnify it into something it isn't (that is, representative of all of what Palacios does) and come out with garbage like 'Palacios can't pass'.

It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of some people on here who by their very definition are Spurs and football crazy and yet don't watch games.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It's definitely a tough one to call. But if Bale continues to play the way he did in the last few months of last season then we may have to seriously consider putting a team out that suits him best. He was that effective for us.

 

[Darrkespur]

I think it really depends on who we get as forwards in this window. Harry is definitely thinking about 433/451/4411/4231, which are all slightly different variants of the system, for some games.

If we get a proper target man like Dzeko or Forlan, it'll look more like a 451/4411, so I'd play Bale LM and have

Gomes

Corluka Dawson King/Bassong Ekotto

Huddlestone Palacios/Sandro
Modric
Lennon Bale

Striker


But only Crouch and Pavyluchenko can really play in that formation, and even then, not ideally. In this formation the wingers are very much wingers, pinned to the touchline, so lennon/bale are the optimum solution (and really scary!). But without the right kind of striker added, I think this will be tricky to pull off.

If we went for the 433/4231 formation, in theory it's similar, but in practice the wide players are narrower and more freeform. We've seen lennon do this occasionally under Jol and do well, and this formation suits Kranjcar and possibly Modric better too. It would also explain Harry's attempts to get Joe Cole, and would be more suited to us if we bought players like Suarez, Bellamy and Oezil, who are more freeform in their attack, dropping to the wing but also cutting inside and swapping positions. In this formation, Bale is more suited to left back, hugging the touchline as he works on the outside of the left forward/AM. This would also suit a more attacking right back/wing back, such as Kaboul, Hutton or Walker/Naughton rather than Corluka.

Gomes

Kaboul Dawson King/Bassong Bale

Huddlestone Palacios/Sandro

Lennon Modric Kranjcar/Bellamy/Suarez

Striker


This system still benefits from a strong target man but is less dependent on it, and I think you could still see defoe/suarez/keane/gyan working to some extent in it, as the attacking midfield three is more compact/advanced, and the game is based more on throughballs and short passes than the first system, which is a wide cross-based formation.

My bet based on the hints we've got in the warmup games and Harry's transfer comments is that he's going more for the latter formation, with the former as an option only in away games. Either is an option but the players we get this year make a big difference about which of the two will work best, or if we should stick to 442 as our main formation.


grrr i spent ages using spaces to get the formations to look right and it only parses the long spaces as one space, so it looks rubbish. Bale and Lennon in the first team should be much wider than the narrow three in the second team.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I don't think so, not always-not to the extent that the difference is 5% in favour of Palacios. He may attempt longer, more difficult passes but then at the very least they are pretty much on a par. You would have to ask why he is attempting such passes when few, therefore, come off. It's a debate for another day.

But the fact remains that Palacios is not a poor passer, on the contrary he is one of our best, just behind Modric. There are just instances when he plays a shit pass, fans see it, magnify it into something it isn't (that is, representative of all of what Palacios does) and come out with garbage like 'Palacios can't pass'.

It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of some people on here who by their very definition are Spurs and football crazy and yet don't watch games.

Absolutely bang on the money.

Wilson is very good in possession, he just has this tendency to play 1 horrendous, often comical pass per match which people remember and then roll out this lazy assumption that he can't pass. Often WP gets through 40-50 passes a match and completes 99.9% of them, and he doesn't get nearly enough credit for how intelligent some of his passing can be - not quite Modric like intelligence, but he's certainly not just the hard tackling tough man he's labelled as.

I do hope he can cut out that 1 terrible pass per match though, as it will cost us a big goal one day.

 

[worcestersauce]

It's definitely a tough one to call. But if Bale continues to play the way he did in the last few months of last season then we may have to seriously consider putting a team out that suits him best. He was that effective for us.

I've tried to ignore this thread because I do tend to bang on a bit about Bale but this post makes a really good point, I think we should, and during this season I suspect we will, recognise that Bale is no longer a bit part player but a, or maybe the, major part of our team.

Sorry I'll step out again now.

 

[Rackybear]

Bale to me will be/is at a push one of the best left sided players in the world. I dont care what anyone says, he can dribble, shoot, header - all at an extremely impressive level.

Probably my favourite spurs player. Could always see it in him too when he had that little spell under Jol before getting injured.

 

[THOWIG]

I cannot see Gareth Bale finishing his career as a left back. I actually think he could play centrally, but for the next 10 years he will do just fine as our left midfielder

Crucial thing is that Bale playing in midfield enables Modric to play in the middle either in a 3 or 2.

 

[StartingPrice]

:silenced:

:silenced:

:silenced:

No, seriously. During the furore last season I did actually say that if I was to be fair in my alaysis, when extolling the virtues of Bale/Modric on the left, that BAE/Bale was very solid, while still offering plenty of attacking options.

I do think that Bale can be a very good winger, just that he can be a World Class full-back.

The most likely thing is that Bale will play both positions next season, depending on the oppos and injuries.

But, really, it is up to the boss what to do, and if he decides to convert him permanently into a winger I can't be too disappointed at that as I think he could make a very good winger (on the SP scale V.Good means international standard, by the way, one step below World Class). I jsut hope those who think he should be a winger will be gracious enough to not scream that Bale is a crap full-back whenever he makes an error, because not only is he still young, but all players make the occasional mistake, even the great ones.

 

[Samson]

I cannot see Gareth Bale finishing his career as a left back. I actually think he could play centrally, but for the next 10 years he will do just fine as our left midfielder

Crucial thing is that Bale playing in midfield enables Modric to play in the middle either in a 3 or 2.

Good thread.

I agree with the above: Bale is too good an attacker to be a left-back in the long term. At times last season, he was Cristiano Ronaldo-esque. He's capable of 10-15 a season, too.

I do wonder about the balance with Lennon and Bale on the wings, and two strikers. That, to me, is a recipe for playing without the ball (a lot of Huddlestone's early movement of the ball gives it away, not necessarily wrongly). Not sure how to square that.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

IMO a player like Palacios is a lot less important when you have a midfield of Hudd and Modric, they won't get over run, their positioning and possession is better, and there's less need to make last ditch tackles.

Huddlestone's possession isn't better than Palacios'.

Have you forgotten Wilson's inability to pass the ball? I love him, but possession isn't his strong point.

Coyboy is absolutely correct. The middfield of Huddlestone and Modric is ultimately weak. They were completely over run by Arsenal, conceded possession to a ten man Chelsea and were outplayed for 60 minutes (until Barry went off - who isn't exactly a dynamo) by ManC.

We got three results and all of sudden all the idiots think Palacios is surplus, FFS try to remember the other 30+ games. The shitty wins at places where we usually got kicked out of the game like Blackburn. The lung bursting run in the last minute at Everton that should have earned us a victory there etc etc.

Palacios actually gives the ball away less than Huddlestone. FACT. He's a better footballer in just about every way except for the the odd 40 yard pass once every ten games.

This bloke does the ugly stuff all day long. Gets in peoples faces, stops the opposition playing and building any kind of rhythm. Apart from a brief flirtation with a twilight Davids we've been needing a player like him for about 30 years.

Nearly every one of our best performances involved him.

Wise up.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Good thread.

I agree with the above: Bale is too good an attacker to be a left-back in the long term. At times last season, he was Cristiano Ronaldo-esque. He's capable of 10-15 a season, too.

I do wonder about the balance with Lennon and Bale on the wings, and two strikers. That, to me, is a recipe for playing without the ball (a lot of Huddlestone's early movement of the ball gives it away, not necessarily wrongly). Not sure how to square that.

I think that's the issue. So few clubs play with two out and out wingers (I can't actually think of any top clubs that do) so if we do play Bale left mid then we either need to move/drop Lennon or sort something a bit different out.

But I think Bale was 'Ronaldo-esque' from left back on numerous occasions last season so I don't know if playing him there really negates his attacking abilities.

 

[cwy21]

Its tough cause BAE is a decent player. Its really too bad he's so shit on the right side.

We have so many quality midfielders, 4-4-2 isn't enough. Sure a 4-5-1/4-3-3 variation would be nice, but we don't have the striker. 4-4-2 leaves Modric-Hudd-Wilson-Lennon (maybe put Modric in CM and bring Niko in, or Bale up to LM and BAE in LB or...the ifs go on).

So what am I saying? We need Dzeko or Suarez.

 

[StartingPrice]

Good thread. I agree with the above: Bale is too good an attacker to be a left-back in the long term. At times last season, he was Cristiano Ronaldo-esque. He's capable of 10-15 a season, too.

I do wonder about the balance with Lennon and Bale on the wings, and two strikers. That, to me, is a recipe for playing without the ball (a lot of Huddlestone's early movement of the ball gives it away, not necessarily wrongly). Not sure how to square that.

I think that's the issue. So few clubs play with two out and out wingers (I can't actually think of any top clubs that do) so if we do play Bale left mid then we either need to move/drop Lennon or sort something a bit different out.

But I think Bale was 'Ronaldo-esque' from left back on numerous occasions last season so I don't know if playing him there really negates his attacking abilities.

This. Especially the bit about his attacking hardly being negated while playing as a left-back. Something I believe the 'Bale the winger' supporters try to airbrush ot of history.

Coyboy is absolutely correct. The middfield of Huddlestone and Modric is ultimately weak. They were completely over run by Arsenal, conceded possession to a ten man Chelsea and were outplayed for 60 minutes (until Barry went off - who isn't exactly a dynamo) by ManC.

We got three results and all of sudden all the idiots think Palacios is surplus, FFS try to remember the other 30+ games. The shitty wins at places where we usually got kicked out of the game like Stoke and Blackburn. The lung bursting run in the last minute at Everton that should have earned us a victory there etc etc.

Palacios actually gives the ball away less than Huddlestone. FACT. He's a better footballer in just about every way except for the the odd 40 yard pass once every ten games.

This bloke does the ugly stuff all day long. Gets in peoples faces, stops the opposition playing and building any kind of rhythm. Apart from a brief flirtation with a twilight Davids we've been needing a player like him for about 30 years.

Nearly every one of our best performances involved him.

Wise up.

Mostly this (though I still think you apply overy harsh criteria to THudd). No-one was happier than me (well, we were all probably equally happy, really:grin when we when we beat the Goons and Chelsea, but it isn't just as simple as saying that means THudd/Modders is our best central midfield partnership. Against Chelsea, for instance, you could see when they were in the tunel that they were so overconfident...they really did just expect to outplay us. Against teams that are gonna use bull-boy tactics I am not so sure it would work - even in the Stoke game their were moments when Luka was milimetres away from a horrible injury (which, I am presuming, is why Whitehead was sent off).
I really don't we'll catch many teams like that again.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Although I just remembered that Kaboul played in CM with Modric at Stoke. But you know what I mean.

 

[Samson]

Coyboy is absolutely correct. The middfield of Huddlestone and Modric is ultimately weak. They were completely over run by Arsenal, conceded possession to a ten man Chelsea and were outplayed for 60 minutes (until Barry went off - who isn't exactly a dynamo) by ManC.

We got three results and all of sudden all the idiots think Palacios is surplus, FFS try to remember the other 30+ games. The shitty wins at places where we usually got kicked out of the game like Blackburn. The lung bursting run in the last minute at Everton that should have earned us a victory there etc etc.

Palacios actually gives the ball away less than Huddlestone. FACT. He's a better footballer in just about every way except for the the odd 40 yard pass once every ten games.

This bloke does the ugly stuff all day long. Gets in peoples faces, stops the opposition playing and building any kind of rhythm. Apart from a brief flirtation with a twilight Davids we've been needing a player like him for about 30 years.

Nearly every one of our best performances involved him.

Wise up.

Whilst I agree that Palacios is preferable to the Hudd, by a long chalk, I think your readings of the Arsenal and Man City games are well off (didn't see Chelsea?) Man Utd and Chelsea defend in numbers and coutner with pace against the Goons, but you want us to try and outpass them?

And I could buy the Man City game being "quite even", but to say they outplayed us for an hour?

 

[Spurger King]

I'd prefer to see Modric on the left, Bale at LB, with Hudd and Palacios in the middle. Simply because out of those four players and BAE, that is what I consider to be the best line-up.

I rate BAE. I thought he had potential when he first started out for us, despite a few dodgy performances prior to his injury. With a weaker team it would make sense for him to be a mainstay of our back four, over an attacking LB like Bale. But right now we have a solid, talented team, that should be going into games against any opposition thinking "we should win this", which is why I'd prefer us to go on the offensive by playing Bale.

As others have already said though, BAE will no doubt play plenty of games throughout the season (injury permitting), and I for one have plenty of faith in him.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

While in the grander scheme of things we want to have different players who can play different positions in different formations (i.e put Bale at left back so that he can't be man marked by Bolton and Blackburn, but on the left wing so that he doesn't get pegged back by Man U and Arsenal), I am old fashioned and I still fully believe that a traditional four man midfield, especially with the players we have, is the best way. A left footer who can cross and dribble on the left, a right footer who can cross and dribble on the right, a playmaker in the middle and a partner for him that can to the necessary grit, whether it's a naturally deeper lying player like Hudd or potentially Sandro who merely protects the defence, or a player like Palacios who wins the ball all over the pitch, left right and centre. For this reason, I'd want to see the BAE/Bale combo on the left as often as possible.

People say ' but what about the space we'll leave' but it works both ways... more space for the opposition to exploit is more space for us to exploit, and with a midfield that includes Modric, Bale and Lennon I'm pretty sure we'll win that battle more often than not, as the Goonscum, Shitteh and Chavski games all showed last season.

Bale has such an amazing combination of attributes, he has pace, power, height, skill, good passing, crossing and shooting and a lot of imagination. I just think that it's a shame to not harness his abilities in as attacking a way as possible. The last young player in the premiership who had these attributes to as great a level as Bale was one Cristiano Ronaldo.

On top of all this, Bale on the left in front of a genuine left back like Ekotto means that we'll be near impenetrable on that flank, because Bale's energy and work ethic is brilliant. We never concede from the right with Lennon in front of Charlie, but we concede a lot from the left with Modric in front of either Bale or BAE because Modric (understandably) goes walkies into the centre. Put Bale in front of BAE and that problem is erased.

On top of all of this, three of the four strikers we currently have at the club (Defoe, Crouch and Pavlyuchenko) are all far more dangerous attacking crosses, so to my mind it makes sense to play as wide as possible and get as many crosses in as we can. Having a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right goes some way to acheiving this. Of course any forward we buy might change this.

I know everyone here wants us to play the Barcelona/ Arsenal blueprint of tippy tappy because it is beautiful to watch, but our attacking play is also exciting, just of a different nature, it is more like Man U 1999, and it developed so beautifully at the tale end of last season that it would be a crying shame to stop it evolving further.

 

[we_all_loved_freund]

I think the op is correct, the best left sided combination we have at the moment is BAE and Bale. I would expect us to line up like this next season.

---------------Gomes------------
Corluka----Dawson----King----BAE

---------Palacios-----THudd------

----Lennon-----Modric-----Bale---

-------------New No.9------------


If we were to bring in a new Joe Cole type of player though, I can see no option but to drop BAE, put Bale back to LB and bring in the new player. Depending on how Sandro progresses he could also come in for Wilson or Hudd.

Against weaker teams we may go with two up front whereby Defoe and Crouch will probably get run outs. I really can't see JD getting much game time against the bigger teams though (assuming that is we bring in the lone striker type of player we are all expecting). HR has said quite clearly he didn't play this way last season because he did not have a striker who could play upfront on his own. He has also said that the only way to really play against the top teams is with a lone striker.