BMJ officially named new Hamburg Manager....

[rez9000]

Is that it,he motivated the side to it's worst prem start but also a 4-4 draw aganst Villa is motivation,I think the cup win after coming from behind means a bit more,if five bore draws is not acceptable what about 7 points from the first ten games?

We were ONE GOAL DOWN. It's not a huge margin. And there are plenty of other landmarks. How about the first win over Chelsea at the Lane in God-knows how many years? How about being the first team to put three goals past Mourinho's Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. How about back-to-back UEFA Cup entry through the League? You want to talk about his fitness regime? How about competing on four fronts, playing close to 60 games in a season and in the process, gaining fifth place in the League, two quarter-finals and a semi-final?

Oh is this Jol who joined under Arnesen and totally undermined the manager Santini and forced him out,he even admitted he gave the club 6 months max as assistant and if he didn't the managers job he would walk then his mate walks to Chelski and he moans about being messed around and humiliated-I really feel sorry for someone who won nothing in three years earned millions but couldn't motivate a side to go to Sunderland and get a point opening day

Are you out of your mind? Or have you just rehashed and distorted a whole-load of anti-Jol rubbish just to prove a point you don't have? Santini walked. He left of his own accord. He was not pushed by anyone. If you want to talk about intrigue, let's discuss things a little more recent, namely the royal screwjob the club gve him earlier this season.

Pre season was just a money grabbing exercise and caused fitness problems,your clutching so many straws your hands must hurt,he thought peaking mid season was a good idea hence the slow starts and we know his idea of diets was let the players eat what they want,the defence was a shambles he couldn't coach better and he was responsible for the bad start and all the other problems like all other club members and players and after three years he had to go or is he never at fault?

No, you see that's where you're having difficulty in comprehension. You in your rabid, anti-Jol stance want to lay all the blame at his feet and deny him any credit. Whereas we normal people see shades of grey between the pillar and post you erect. We don't deny that perhaps Ramos is a better choice of manager, but we don't instantly turn on the man who got us into a position where we become serious contenders. Get it?

Your argument of lack of fitness doesn't hold water. If his fitness regime was so poor, how did the squad get through a 60-game season? And if your entire stance is based on one single game against a supposedly lesser side, I would remind you that Brimingham thrashed us 4-1 at St Andrews and 3-2 01at the Lane, both games under Ramos. Perhaps Ramos deserves to be fired if we follow your semblence of logic (and I use the term very loosely)

And if preseason is responsible for the player's fitness, then blame for that should be placed squarely on the shoulders of our 'illustrious' DOF, Damien Comolli who organised the tour of South Africa.

No he didn't he went into talks then the board issued him a new long term deal to stop him walking,your speaking bollocks it's fact and he also was approached by another club which he spoke to but declined to join.

Proof?

Thanks for the history lesson but Jol didn't get us back respect on his own others can take some credit,even George Graham won a cup in 6 months,Hoddle got us to a final and Ramos won a cup in 4 months,in the league he may have had our two best placings for awhile but that doesn't make it a significant change all down to Jol,our glory never has or will come down to managers making top five then going backwards without winning anything.

How did we go backwards? The season hadn't finished yet. You can't state that a club has regressed until the results are all in. And again, we back to your monochromic vision. It's not all black and white, do you see? Ramos may well have brought us silverware, but that doesn't detract or debase what Jol did for the club. Do you understand that position, or is it only simple black and white with you?

I get this is pro Jol site

no you see, that's what you DON'T get. This isn't a pro-Jol site, this is a pro-SPURS site. Get the distinction?

but all this comes from fans saying they would accept a thrashing by Jol's Hamburg aganst their club

It seems you need to improve your eyesight. What C0YS said was

If hamburg play us I bet they will stuff us.....just cause thats always what happens, and if it does happen I cant say I will be to dissapointed.............I still will be a bit dissapointed at least

He said he would be disappointed, but not too disappointed. That isn't acceptance.

if he can do no wrong and nothing can be said it shows what a narrow minded poster you and other pro Jol fans can be,if you don't like people pointing out his faults then tough you can sing his praises all day,we all respect what he did but his mistakes can be pointed out without that being labelled as some massive anti Jol agenda.

Oh dear. A handful of posts in and already your an expert. You have no idea what happens or is said on this site. We have plenty of Jol-bashers here, but most of them have the sense to acknowledge that he did a job for us and pretty good one too considering the circumstances. And those of us who have a soft spot for him, acknowledge that he had weaknesses as well. My advice to you would be to actually sit and READ some of the threads on the site before jumping in with both feet and attacking the viewpoints of those who've contributed a hundred times more than you have to this site.

When spurs fans would happily get thrashed by a Jol side that says it all,no point debating merits and ignoring his faults it just make this board a pointless unobjective site or do the rules somewhere state no criticism of Jol?

You joined the site. We didn't ask you to join, did we? If you don't like it, no-one's compelling you to stay. Yet you remain and continue to spout what I (and maybe some others) believe to be drivel.

All the talk of history is funny and I love the heroic speeches but when did spurs fans start supporting Jol before the good of the club,love the man and respect what he done but happily taking a beating because they love a former manager is a joke.

Oh please, put your toys away!

 

[SpurSince57]

Or perhaps you meant Souness.

And you know for a fact that Jol went behind the board's back?

Jol let the players eat what they like? I think you'll find the responsibility for what's on offer at the canteen is the Sporting Director's responsibility, if you check the job descriptions. And, to judge from comments made by Arteta and Malouda, our canteen pre-Ramos was no different from those at Everton and Chelsea, and probably the rest of the division.

And he couldn't organise a defence? :rofl: Obviously our GA column in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 is a hallucination.

It's always best to read a thread before leaping in with hysterical accusations.

 

[alex_yid]

Good Luck Big man:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

 

[SpurSince57]

Yes, well done the Big Man. I'm sure that if we do draw Hamburg next season (and, Sod's Law being Sod's Law, we probably will) he'll get a massive reception at the Lane. It will be a really emotional occasion.

And then we'll stuff them.

 

[joey55]

Or perhaps you meant Souness.

And you know for a fact that Jol went behind the board's back?

Jol let the players eat what they like? I think you'll find the responsibility for what's on offer at the canteen is the Sporting Director's responsibility, if you check the job descriptions. And, to judge from comments made by Arteta and Malouda, our canteen pre-Ramos was no different from those at Everton and Chelsea, and probably the rest of the division.

And he couldn't organise a defence? :rofl: Obviously our GA column in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 is a hallucination.

It's always best to read a thread before leaping in with hysterical accusations.

Also, they showed us the canteen on ITV last year in a segment before a UEFA Cup game and all the food was typically healthy stuff, as you'd expect to find at a Prem club. This stuff about unhealthy food got leaked to the press, from the same source that claims we were unfit (yet our stats show we were tackling and passing more at the start of the season than we have since), that Jol tried to get jobs with Newcatle and Ajax (yet he turned them both down - how dissloyal:roll and that Jol wanted to sell Berba and buy Crouch. Oh and then there was the leak that Jol had been ordered to play Routledge, the weekend before he did infact pick Routledge. If people can't see that sources within the club were doing all they could to unsettle things (getting caught with another coach doesn't help either) and make Jols position untenable, then they are blind. The canteen stuff is just more nonsense trying to convince the fans they acted correctly and our lack of CL football was down to Jol, rather than awaful transfer market activity.

I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of our club. The players have talked of a change a diet and a new fitness regime, but none have said anything about the old diet and wouldn't it be a good way of showing a new side who is in charge to put them through there paces. If all the nonsense we were told, such as unfit, poor diets, lack of motivation, poor tactics and poor man management were true, then surely we'd have not only matched last seasons results but beaten them easily. The fact is, we earned less points in the same 26 game period as Jol did when he took over from Santini, but with a far superior squad! It just doesn't add up.

I stress this is in no way Ramos's fault and he's done a fine job. The trouble is, people believed the nonsense we were told and therefore had unrealistic expectations of Ramos (whom no one really checked his background other to read his CV to see what he's won). Hence we are still seeing these pointless Jol/Ramos debates. Ramos shouldn't be compared to Jol, but to other Prem coach's.

 

[mrboombarrakoomba]

jenas to hamburg
van der vaart to spurs

job done.

thanks BMJ.....

 

[SpurOfGlory]

We were ONE GOAL DOWN. It's not a huge margin. And there are plenty of other landmarks. How about the first win over Chelsea at the Lane in God-knows how many years? How about being the first team to put three goals past Mourinho's Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. How about back-to-back UEFA Cup entry through the League? You want to talk about his fitness regime? How about competing on four fronts, playing close to 60 games in a season and in the process, gaining fifth place in the League, two quarter-finals and a semi-final?
So coming from 4-1 down to scrape a home win is better than coming from behind in a cup final to Chelsea to win the thing because of a larger amount of goals conceded,competing on four fronts doesn't mean we were fit,we were obliged to play those games and they way we constanly ran out of steam and had to hang onto our leads but conceded late at least points towards this-is that your theory that if you play 60 games it means your fit while ignoring the performance and results.


Are you out of your mind? Or have you just rehashed and distorted a whole-load of anti-Jol rubbish just to prove a point you don't have? Santini walked. He left of his own accord. He was not pushed by anyone. If you want to talk about intrigue, let's discuss things a little more recent, namely the royal screwjob the club gve him earlier this season.
He was undermined,everyone knows Jol was Arnesen's choice then Levy and the board wanted a bigger name,Jol said himself he gave the club 6 months or he was walking out,just a stroke of luck Santini couldn't work with his team and left I suppose.


No, you see that's where you're having difficulty in comprehension. You in your rabid, anti-Jol stance want to lay all the blame at his feet and deny him any credit. Whereas we normal people see shades of grey between the pillar and post you erect. We don't deny that perhaps Ramos is a better choice of manager, but we don't instantly turn on the man who got us into a position where we become serious contenders. Get it?

Your argument of lack of fitness doesn't hold water. If his fitness regime was so poor, how did the squad get through a 60-game season? And if your entire stance is based on one single game against a supposedly lesser side, I would remind you that Brimingham thrashed us 4-1 at St Andrews and 3-2 01at the Lane, both games under Ramos. Perhaps Ramos deserves to be fired if we follow your semblence of logic (and I use the term very loosely)

And if preseason is responsible for the player's fitness, then blame for that should be placed squarely on the shoulders of our 'illustrious' DOF, Damien Comolli who organised the tour of South Africa.
And playing in South Africa meant we were unfit,it did nothing to harm the players,where is your evidence?





How did we go backwards? The season hadn't finished yet. You can't state that a club has regressed until the results are all in. And again, we back to your monochromic vision. It's not all black and white, do you see? Ramos may well have brought us silverware, but that doesn't detract or debase what Jol did for the club. Do you understand that position, or is it only simple black and white with you?

no you see, that's what you DON'T get. This isn't a pro-Jol site, this is a pro-SPURS site. Get the distinction?


But they won't mind getting thrashed by Hamburg because Jol is in charge-sorry thats sounds like a real spurs fan but lets moan about 5 draws when the season was over anyway in terms of what we could achieve in the league.

Oh dear. A handful of posts in and already your an expert. You have no idea what happens or is said on this site. We sit and READ some of the threads on the site before jumping in with both feet and attacking the viewpoints of those who've contributed a hundred times more than you have to this site.

So your some sad barstard that spends all day posting here and been here longer so that makes you an expert,anyone who has a higher post count is more knowledgable.When you graduate from special school you will be a menace to society-you think a higher post count makes you smarter,no it means you spend more time here and have been on the board longer.
You joined the site. We didn't ask you to join, did we? If you don't like it, no-one's compelling you to stay. Yet you remain and continue to spout what I (and maybe some others) believe to be drivel.
Do you own the site or is that theory
Oh please, put your toys away!

We didn't ask you join the site is pretty funny,I didn't ask morons to piss their pants and throw their toys out of the pram for highlighting Jol's weaknesses,of course the man is a saint and the spurs board are evil.
They made the choice Jol is gone get over it,you don't own this site so unless you do and have the power to censor peoples comments or ban them then accept other peoples opinions or are we a group of Jol lovers that doesn't like anyone new voicing a different opinion.
Fans not bothered if a Jol lead side thrashes us says it all,anyone hates a bad word against him and then turning it into I hate him and don't recognise his achievements should maybe go back and read my previous posts,take your own advice not that it's going to be any good but previous ramblings.:rofl:

 

[SpurSince57]

Dear God…

 

[lukespurs7]

It's very simple. If Ramos had motivated his team at the end of this season, we wouldn't have gone on a five game bore-draw run, scratched a win at Reading and then been humiliated by Liverpool at home. Since February, the only time we've seen Spurs come alive was against PSV, Chelsea and Man U. We heard the morons claim that BMj couldn't cut it against the Tp 4. Ramos first half-season is the direct opposite. We pull it out of the bag for the Top 4 and then go to sleep against the rest. That strikes of poor motivation. That's not to say that Ramos is a bad manager or that he won't bring success to Spurs, merely that he hasn't managed to get the best out of the squad since the Cup Final. Or would you like to dispute the results?

how about coming from 4-1 down to salvage a point against Villa? It may not have been a nice result, but we battled for it. This is what 'fans like you' have been wrapping yourselves in knots over Jol. When things went badly, it was all Jol's fault. When things went well, it was because of other circumstances. PICK ONE! Either Jol was responsible for the team or he wasn't, which means you either give him all the credit as well as all the criticism, or none of either.

Oh, I seeeeeeeeeeee. So you believe that hamstringing and humiliating him was what he deserved, do you? It seems that you subscribe to the Thaksin Shiniwatra School of Football - if a manager does reasonably well, the goalposts are then moved and he's considered not good enough.

Oh, right. So the pure promotional money-grubbing exercise of the South African tour had nothing to do with it? Or the fact that he wasn't given the players everyone with a basic knowledge of football could tell we were desperate for? Instead of stating our ambitions and strengthening the squad, we were happy for Damien Comolli to pour our money around the continent and then blame Jol when it failed to net results?

Utter bollocks! Newcastle made the approach, and he refused their advances.

You need to gain some perspective on Spurs history. We'd become a complete joke in the footballing world. We were described as perennial also-rans. Our glory had been tarnished for over a decade and we were a nothing team. Jol gave us the ability to seriously talk about Champions League football in a league when only one team has broken the Top 4 cartel in recent years.

EDIT: If I could speak to Martin Jol, I'd thank him from the very bottom of my heart for what he did for Spurs. Not having witnessed either Nicholson's nor Burkinshaw's reign, he is the only Spurs managerial legend I've had the privilege of seeing.

Anyone who denigrates what he did for us lives in a truly sorry state of mind, and seems to have dismissed the central tenet of Tottenham Hotspur. I quote from another Spurs Legend, Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Martin Jol encapsulated that spirit. He lived it, owned it and delivered to us, and we owe him nothing but thanks for it.

agree with every word you said there. Some fans really either need to get a better understanding or just put things into perspective. Also, intresting point about Ramos being the opposite to Jol in terms of playing against the top4 but not the rest. Does strike of poor motivation as playing vs Chelsea,Man.U u bearly need motivating as a pro footballer.

Ramos has done very well to win us a cup and his CV shows what a great manager he is. He is a proven winner and so i suppose as we want to win things he's the right man for the job, but I doubt anyone will ever replace the hole in our hearts that exists now Jol is gone. He brought us consistency, 2 5th place finishes, good attacking football, excitement and real passion especially from the fans as we felt a real connection with him and the team. Not sure we have or will have that again for a long-time.

Jol did a very very decent job for us and I only wish i could speak to him and find out the truth behind the sigings because you can't believe everything you read but surely Jol would have been asking for a LM as priority!

 

[freegardk]

I still love Martin Jol, Martin Jol still loves me!

I'm sure he said he'd be back. Something about DC\DL not being in charge of the club forever. BMJ's a yid for life!

GL at Hamburg.

 

[lukespurs7]

Also, they showed us the canteen on ITV last year in a segment before a UEFA Cup game and all the food was typically healthy stuff, as you'd expect to find at a Prem club. This stuff about unhealthy food got leaked to the press, from the same source that claims we were unfit (yet our stats show we were tackling and passing more at the start of the season than we have since), that Jol tried to get jobs with Newcatle and Ajax (yet he turned them both down - how dissloyal:roll and that Jol wanted to sell Berba and buy Crouch. Oh and then there was the leak that Jol had been ordered to play Routledge, the weekend before he did infact pick Routledge. If people can't see that sources within the club were doing all they could to unsettle things (getting caught with another coach doesn't help either) and make Jols position untenable, then they are blind. The canteen stuff is just more nonsense trying to convince the fans they acted correctly and our lack of CL football was down to Jol, rather than awaful transfer market activity.

I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of our club. The players have talked of a change a diet and a new fitness regime, but none have said anything about the old diet and wouldn't it be a good way of showing a new side who is in charge to put them through there paces. If all the nonsense we were told, such as unfit, poor diets, lack of motivation, poor tactics and poor man management were true, then surely we'd have not only matched last seasons results but beaten them easily. The fact is, we earned less points in the same 26 game period as Jol did when he took over from Santini, but with a far superior squad! It just doesn't add up.

I stress this is in no way Ramos's fault and he's done a fine job. The trouble is, people believed the nonsense we were told and therefore had unrealistic expectations of Ramos (whom no one really checked his background other to read his CV to see what he's won). Hence we are still seeing these pointless Jol/Ramos debates. Ramos shouldn't be compared to Jol, but to other Prem coach's.

Unfortunately this is turning into a fairly negative thread about how our club is being run but to be honest you are 100% correct and it's a shame, but blatentley clear for all to see.

They were just covering their backs, Ramos may or may not prove to be better, but I highly doubt there was much wrong with the diet Jol had the team on, the 60 game season supports that.

The thing about our poor defence is surely down to our lack of consistency of defencive members more than anything else. In 04/05 Stalteri,King,Dawson,Lee were playing week in week out and we conceded very few. The next season we were also fairly defensively sound. The start of this season we had Bale(a good but new signing) A mixture of Kaboul,Dawson,King etc at CB-no real chance to form partnerships. Also Robbo suddently hit a poor patch. Can't all be blamed on Jol!

MAINLY I FEEL They are trying to avoid the transfer market royal cock-up. Sorry but Boetang will almost certantly never be more than an average player for us. Bale was a good signing. BUT Kaboul is debateable, Bent was very unesseccary and far too expensive to sit on the bench or play a bit-part role. Also we failed to sign a LM ONCE AGAIN! Fucking rediculous.

And the way that jol's departure was handled. Much of the shite that is spouted out of the media even from our club is just so that Levy and Kemsley etc don't look so bad. Alot of things mainly our quite frankly shocking transfer dealing show that Commoli must take alot of the blame.

 

[rez9000]

I'm going to answer this post and then I'm washing my hands of the entire absurdity.

So coming from 4-1 down to scrape a home win is better than coming from behind in a cup final to Chelsea to win the thing because of a larger amount of goals conceded,competing on four fronts doesn't mean we were fit,we were obliged to play those games and they way we constanly ran out of steam and had to hang onto our leads but conceded late at least points towards this-is that your theory that if you play 60 games it means your fit while ignoring the performance and results.

You seem to believe that I hold up the Villa game as better than the Cup Final. You don’t seem to understand that one result is not mutually exclusive of the other.

What I’m trying to communicate to you (if you would desist in your frothings for just a moment) is that no manager will win every game. And if a manager loses a game, it does not call into question that manager’s ability. However, it appears that your mindset DOES indicate that line of thinking through your repeated mention of the Sunderland game. My response to that is to remind you of the drubbings we received by a team that was relegated this season (Birmingham) under Ramos. Now, I feel it necessary to point out that I am in no way questioning Ramos abilities based on those two results. I am merely using a bad result to illustrate the one-track nature of your argument.

He was undermined,everyone knows Jol was Arnesen's choice then Levy and the board wanted a bigger name,Jol said himself he gave the club 6 months or he was walking out,just a stroke of luck Santini couldn't work with his team and left I suppose.

I asked for proof, not an ‘everyone knows’ assertion. Find me the direct quote that Jol said what you claim he did. Simply stating that ‘everyone knows’ (and the fact that it’s news to me puts paid to that sentence right there) does not a case make.

And playing in South Africa meant we were unfit,it did nothing to harm the players,where is your evidence?

But again, you are the one who started the bad preseason point, saying that Martin Jol didn’t train the players enough in preseason. I don’t have to prove a negative. It is up to you to prove that Martin Jol had a bad preseason. I suggested that a mini-tournament played in the South African sun and then a handful of games against pretty meagre opposition will not help the players prepare for one of the hardest leagues in the world. You seem to believe that it doesn’t matter who we play in preseason and that all the preparation is done on the training field and that ultimately Martin Jol was solely responsible for that. The point you have yet again failed to grasp is that I don’t seek to lay blame solely in one place, whereas you do.

But they won't mind getting thrashed by Hamburg because Jol is in charge-sorry thats sounds like a real spurs fan but lets moan about 5 draws when the season was over anyway in terms of what we could achieve in the league.

And once more you fail to even understand what someone else has written. I even provided you with a quote and you seem to have bypassed it altogether. I’ll put it in again one more time to see if you pick it up this time.

If hamburg play us I bet they will stuff us.....just cause thats always what happens, and if it does happen I cant say I will be to dissapointed.............I still will be a bit dissapointed at least

Now, C0YS didn’t say that he wanted Hamburg to thrash us, but that in typical Spurs fashion they would do so. Now if the irony and gallows humour in that doesn’t trigger anything for you, that’s your problem.

Furthermore, if one fan would be happy to see Martin Jol beat Spurs with his new club, what the hell does that have to do with you or Martin Jol? Who’s your argument with – this fan’s viewpoint, those who liked Martin Jol, or Martin Jol himself? You see that’s the problem with being reactionary. It doesn’t require any measure of rational thought, merely a knee-jerk response, and we got that in spades from you. That’s what I and others have said when we suggest you take some time to consider what’s been said.

So your some sad barstard that spends all day posting here and been here longer so that makes you an expert,anyone who has a higher post count is more knowledgable.When you graduate from special school you will be a menace to society-you think a higher post count makes you smarter,no it means you spend more time here and have been on the board longer.

Well, let’s analyse. I believe I joined SC in February of 2007. So approximately 15 months ago. That’s about 450 days, in which time I've racked up just shy 2,100 posts. This equates to about 4.6 posts per day, each one taking an average of 5 minutes. So, on average, I’ve spent 20 – 25 minutes a day posting on this site. Now, I’d wager you’ve done about the same amount on this thread alone, so if I’m a sad bastard (note the spelling of ‘bastard’), then I would suggest that perhaps you’re in the same boat as myself.

Regardless, what I was actually suggesting is that rather than antagonising individuals who’ve been here a lot longer than you, who have added and contributed and made the site what it is, you get to know the people you’re sharing the space with before laying into them for expressing their opinions and feelings. This has nothing to do with how much more or less I, or anyone else, has posted, and everything to do with being generally polite.

I promised myself that I wouldn’t do this, but I can’t resist. What makes me smarter is my ability to string together a number of sentences into a single paragraph, rather than a series of rambling clauses all linked together with bad punctuation. As for special education, there are institutes of higher learning (although perhaps you might want to choose one of lower learning first) that can help you with the abovementioned grammar problems.

Do you own the site or is that theory

We return to basic English. The word ‘maybe’ denotes that I am speaking from a position of conjecture rather than known fact. So asking if I own the site or if it’s theory is really a pretty meaningless question in the face of my use of the word 'maybe'.

We didn't ask you join the site is pretty funny,I didn't ask morons to piss their pants and throw their toys out of the pram for highlighting Jol's weaknesses,of course the man is a saint and the spurs board are evil.

And once again you highlight the flaw in your thinking. You claim that you have the right to express your opinion. But surely that’s also true of others. The clear difference is that you have done so aggressively and with resort to insult. What do you care what someone thinks of Martin Jol? If you genuinely want to debate someone, you’re off to a bad start if you resort to aggression from the start. And this is where your lack of experience on this site shows you up the most.

If you had spent time on the boards, contributing here and there, and most importantly READING the posts properly, you would have found that, for the most part, we all get along pretty well. Those that don’t move on fairly quickly as people generally don’t want to talk to them. It’s the same as real life. If you join a group and immediately piss them off, they’ll not want to talk to you. So you end up wasting your time. So what’s the point of joining the forum in the first place?

They made the choice Jol is gone get over it,you don't own this site so unless you do and have the power to censor peoples comments or ban them then accept other peopes opinions or are we a group of Jol lovers that doesn't like anyone new voicing a different opinion.

I keep having to reiterate points. Speaking personally, I have no problem with conflicting views. What I do have a problem with is seeing naked aggression like yours perpetuated as debate and then defended as free speech, when it’s neither. You will never convince me that Martin Jol was anything but good for the club. But even if there was a shred of doubt in my mind about that, the manner in which you've attempted to convince me and others like me differently is woefully inadequate and will merely cause your opinions to be mistrusted.

 

[Lanh]

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Lest we forget!

Good luck Martin and thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything that you gave us back during your time here.