Boxing thread?

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Floyd might have one of the most impressive records, but it's hard to see him being remembered with any fondness when he retires. Odious man with a dull but effective fighting style. The Chelsea analogy is spot on.

Depends if you truly love boxing and appreciate the 'sweet science' though. I personally do, and I'll remember Floyd as the most gifted boxer I've ever seen. Yeah we all love the brawlers but if you ask any of them if they'd have preferred to have had Floyd's natural talent I guarantee you they'd all say yes.

 

[E17yid]

Did Manny even land anything all fight?

You're a class act if you're making Manny look like a second rate fighter. That's how good Mayweather is.

 

[yiddo23]

Mayweather is mourinho, plain and simple

 

[Shea]

I knew Mayweather would win on points

I think Manny is talented and has a great style to watch, he's high octane approach to the game has delighted fans for years. The talk was all about his pressure and his footwork being a problem for an aging and slowing Mayweather (making the fight competitive)

But I knew from seeing his fights with Marquez - who was largely able to nullify Manny's speed and pressure with great timing - that Mayweather would have a relatively easy night

Mayweather has better timing than Marquez and had several other advantages (reach, natural weight/strength, control of range)

I admire Mayweather's skills, I boxed myself as a kid and moved in to Thai boxing in my late teens and 20s so I know a little bit about what I am watching and can associate it with actually trying to do it myself to get a feel for just how difficult and how impressive it is that Floyd does what he does (he is quite simply the best, most talented boxer I have ever seen)

But I wish he would go for the kill more and make the fights more engaging - true he doesn't have to, he wins but controlling the fight in practically every aspect but it kills the fight as a contest and does not make for good viewing in that respect (it becomes an exhibition like a touring harlem globe trotter rather than a competitive bout)

I think it's a shame the fight wasn't 5 years ago because the Manny of that year may have been able to make it a little less one sided with his pressure and work rate, but I (as I thought then) would still expect Mayweather to have won rather convincingly, though it may have at least had moments of excitement

As it was, there was one moment of near interest in the fight, when Manny landed a decent left hand and forced Floyd back only for the latter to cover up so remarkably and not let another punch land with any effect. Other than that it was a fight that with the eyes of the world watching (beyond the boxing world) that failed to produce any excitement and would have done little for the marketing of the sport (there's no way any new or casual fans would have been attracted to the sport seeing that and I suspect it will lead to a generation of young fans being lost to the UFC)

 

[cozzo]

A lot of you are missing the point, Mayweather is a boxer and not a fighter. He is a master of boxing.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

No doubt about it, Mayweather hits well - just ask his mrs!!

I don't mind him winning to keep his perfect record, but I don't like the man at all, and am disgusted that someone convicted of spousal battery can continue to be paid so much money.

 

[hans]

He isn't but there isn't someone that could beat him either. This fight should of happened 6 years ago for it to have been competitive but he did duck it

Floyd signed a contract to fight Pacman 6 years ago though. The fight didnt happen 6 years ago because Pacman didnt want to take random drug testing at that time. You know, when he was moving up weight classes and knocking out guys bigger than him. . . nothing suspicious about that at all. . . ?

I scored it 10 rounds to 2 for floyd, i think it was only the 4th and 6th round that manny won.

Floyd did what he always does, fought his fight and adapted on the fly. Manny couldnt adjust at all and barely landed anything. To add to that, manny was clearly scared to go in for the kill, he tried to fight a little more intelligently (i guess he is scared of getting slumped like he did against marquez) at the detriment of the event. Floyds jab had him not knowing whether to just defend just the 1 or the 1, 2 and end up tentative.
Floyd layed back on the ropes enough times waiting for manny to get reckless coming in, but it never really happened and manny didnt let his hands go enough, and when he did - he wasnt landing any scoring punches.

Pacquiao failed miserably to keep up his end of the bargain...He didnt do what he and Freddie Roach kept gassing the fans up about. They claimed they were going to outwork Floyd and KO him...come fight time Pacman was averaging like 15 punches a round?

But its all Floyd's fault according to most of the fans (and people in this forum?). He should stand there and get hit?

This shit is equivalent to the Broncos v Seahawks superbowl a few years ago when the Broncos were racking up huge wins over the course of the season, they were the entertainers and the seahawks were the defensive masters. Seahawks blew them out 43-8 and the Broncos looked trash. . .


Floyd put on a boxing clinic last night. As if its his responsibility to help Pacman score so the simple minded fans that don't know shit about boxing can be entertained.

Floyd did manny the worst way possible. Made the fighter of the decade look like an amateur.

 

[Hoops]

No doubt about it, Mayweather hits well - just ask his mrs!!

I don't mind him winning to keep his perfect record, but I don't like the man at all, and am disgusted that someone convicted of spousal battery can continue to be paid so much money.

irrelevant

 

[WalkerboyUK]

irrelevant

Not at all...
Ched Evans guilty of rape, serves time, no club will take him on.
Mayweather beats Mrs, convicted and does jail time - $200 million in bank for a fight...

 

[beats1]

Floyd signed a contract to fight Pacman 6 years ago though. The fight didnt happen 6 years ago because Pacman didnt want to take random drug testing at that time. You know, when he was moving up weight classes and knocking out guys bigger than him. . . nothing suspicious about that at all. . . ?

Errr no. Manny had no issue with random drug testing, he didn't want to do it the night before as he didn't recover mentally and physically from it

 

[hans]

Errr no. Manny had no issue with random drug testing, he didn't want to do it the night before as he didn't recover mentally and physically from it

Manny refused random blood and urine tests. This is a fact. Looking at your response, I dont think you understand the meaning of "random" as you've contradicted yourself . . . . And that what you've written is just completely incorrect

If you look back at the history of the first negotiations, it is extremely dodgy in regards to Mannys stance on the random drug testing. . . . Firstly they would only accept random testing on 3 occassions pre-determined by his team. (random?!). Then they wanted a 28 days cut off from blood testing. . . Then manny was scared of needles (even though he has plenty of tattoos). . . Do i need to continue friend?

 

[cozzo]

No doubt about it, Mayweather hits well - just ask his mrs!!

I don't mind him winning to keep his perfect record, but I don't like the man at all, and am disgusted that someone convicted of spousal battery can continue to be paid so much money.

Wait didn't Gazza beat his wife? and is he not loved on here? and in the UK?

 

[beats1]

Manny refused random blood and urine tests. This is a fact. Looking at your response, I dont think you understand the meaning of "random" as you've contradicted yourself . . . . And that what you've written is just completely incorrect

If you look back at the history of the first negotiations, it is extremely dodgy in regards to Mannys stance on the random drug testing. . . . Firstly they would only accept random testing on 3 occassions pre-determined by his team. (random?!). Then they wanted a 28 days cut off from blood testing. . . Then manny was scared of needles (even though he has plenty of tattoos). . . Do i need to continue friend?

Random Blood Testing means random and not scheduling it the night before. Floyd demanded that the USADA do tougher practices than usually, to suggest that Manny is a drugs cheat after that is stupid. He has always passed the drugs test that are done by urine the night before and after. That would be done as agreed. Manny was happy to do it after the fight, and two times before the weeks before the fight. The USADA and WADA that scheduled tests would not satisfy the olympic testing model. HOWEVER IN 2011, Manny was happy to do testing in line with the olympic framework, but he didn't want USADA to do it and wanted a neutral party in WADA to do it.

Also I do have a good knowledge of anti doping practices since the majority of the students at my uni and even my course were actually athletes. The practices of WADA is that they have to know where you are and then they will show up at that destination randomly over a long period of time. So they will turn up at your house and you have to give them a sample.

Also Manny isn't the same boxer he was 5 years ago

I work in the NHS and have been boxing since I was 11 after a rough upbringing however I have seen many people who have a bad reaction to a blood test despite having tattoos. I for example have tattoos but during a blood test, I have to be kept at the hospital for observation as my blood pressure takes a dip and become very light headed. I have blacked out from a blood test 3 times and Im not scared of needles and have no problems with injections.

 

[hans]

Random Blood Testing means random and not scheduling it the night before. Floyd demanded that the USADA do tougher practices than usually, to suggest that Manny is a drugs cheat after that is stupid. He has always passed the drugs test that are done by urine the night before and after. That would be done as agreed. Manny was happy to do it after the fight, and two times before the weeks before the fight. The USADA and WADA that scheduled tests would not satisfy the olympic testing model. HOWEVER IN 2011, Manny was happy to do testing in line with the olympic framework, but he didn't want USADA to do it and wanted a neutral party in WADA to do it.

Also I do have a good knowledge of anti doping practices since the majority of the students at my uni and even my course were actually athletes. The practices of WADA is that they have to know where you are and then they will show up at that destination randomly over a long period of time. So they will turn up at your house and you have to give them a sample.

Also Manny isn't the same boxer he was 5 years ago

I work in the NHS and have been boxing since I was 11 after a rough upbringing however I have seen many people who have a bad reaction to a blood test despite having tattoos. I for example have tattoos but during a blood test, I have to be kept at the hospital for observation as my blood pressure takes a dip and become very light headed. I have blacked out from a blood test 3 times and Im not scared of needles and have no problems with injections.

Sorry but your response again is pretty laughable (and obviously copy pasted for the first paragraph). You still havent grasped the notion of "RANDOM" testing. If manny is calling the shots on when the testing cut off date is, how is it random testing? You do realise that some drugs have a half life of just a few hours? That is the whole essence of random testing . .it can be at any time. Who said there was a scheduled test the night before? There is no guarantee that it would or would not have been the night before. . . And don't forget, both fighters would have been subject to the same random testing.

Err you do realise that USADA use WADA laboratories to do their testing as they use the same protocols? They do exactly the same sample collection protocol as WADA . . . . MLB, NBA, NHL olympic athletes all use USADA for their testing . . .

Floyd did not demand USADA do tougher practises than usual. You just made that up. He only wanted USADA to run their protocols as they usually do. . . He wanted tougher drug testing than what is the norm for Nevada state athletic commission. Which is a more than fair request, if you know anything about professional boxing. Yes manny passed all commission tests for his previous fights, but then again so did Shane Mosely.

Manny of 5-6 years ago turned down the fight as he didnt want to accept random drug testing. Since Alex Ariza left Pacmans camp he has looked poor, and no longer superhuman. Freddie Roach even admitted he was suspicious of what Alex Ariza was giving Manny Pac.

To add to this, i work in a clinical testing lab. For drug testing like this, its not like donating blood. They usually take no more than 5-10mL of blood, for comparisin thats about 1-2 teaspoons.

 

[beats1]

Sorry but your response again is pretty laughable (and obviously copy pasted for the first paragraph). If manny is calling the shots on when the testing cut off date is, how is it random testing? You do realise that some drugs have a half life of just a few hours? That is the whole essence of random testing . .it can be at any time. There is no guarantee that it would or would not have been the night before. . . And don't forget, both fighters would have been subject to the same random testing.

Err you do realise that USADA use WADA laboratories to do their testing as they use the same protocols? They do exactly the same sample collection protocol as WADA . . . . MLB, NBA, NHL olympic athletes all use USADA for their testing . . .

Floyd did not demand USADA do tougher practises than usual. You just made that up. He only wanted USADA to run their protocols as they usually do. . . He wanted tougher drug testing than what is the norm for Nevada state athletic commission. Which is a more than fair request, if you know anything about professional boxing. Yes manny passed all commission tests for his previous fights, but then again so did Shane Mosely.

Manny of 5-6 years ago turned down the fight as he didnt want to accept random drug testing. Since Alex Ariza left Pacmans camp he has looked poor, and no longer superhuman. Freddie Roach even admitted he was suspicious of what Alex Ariza was giving Manny Pac.

To add to this, i work in a clinical testing lab. For drug testing like this, its not like donating blood. They usually take no more than 5-10mL of blood, for comparisin thats about 1-2 teaspoons.

I didn't copy and paste shit

Also he agreed to have a blood test straight after the fight. Not the night after.

He demanded that USADA do tougher practices than usual, standard requirement is just urine testing and one blood test a year. Which what you said and what I said.

As I said I had experience with people who dealt WADA and I know they use the same protocol but he wanted a independent body to do the testing doesn't change the protocols but just the people doing the test. It should be no issue for Floyd to agree to since he has got what he wanted.

I didn't say donating blood, I said a simple blood test, at our hospital, we have the seats turn in to a bed straight away when someone does have a bad test. So you telling how much blood comes out sounds like like some stuff that has been copied and pasted since I stated that the bad reactions happen with blood tests and not a blood drive or donation.

People who say a small amount of blood and that it wont lead to bad reaction are chatting shit. A blood test will be less than 1% of persons total blood unless it is more than 5 vials.

Interestingly enough, I had an extensive drug test which was for 6 vials of blood(60ml's) and yet didn't have a bad reaction to it.

To say someone is a drugs cheat of the back success after the period it happened is poor. People should investigate serious accusations but after the period you cant accuse someone unless you have evidence or a whistleblower

 

[hans]

I didn't copy and paste shit

Also he agreed to have a blood test straight after the fight. Not the night after.

He demanded that USADA do tougher practices than usual, standard requirement is just urine testing and one blood test a year. Which what you said and what I said.

As I said I had experience with people who dealt WADA and I know they use the same protocol but he wanted a independent body to do the testing doesn't change the protocols but just the people doing the test. It should be no issue for Floyd to agree to since he has got what he wanted.

I didn't say donating blood, I said a simple blood test, at our hospital, we have the seats turn in to a bed straight away when someone does have a bad test. So you telling how much blood comes out sounds like like some stuff that has been copied and pasted since I stated that the bad reactions happen with blood tests and not a blood drive or donation.

People who say a small amount of blood and that it wont lead to bad reaction are chatting shit. A blood test will be less than 1% of persons total blood unless it is more than 5 vials.

Interestingly enough, I had an extensive drug test which was for 6 vials of blood(60ml's) and yet didn't have a bad reaction to it.

To say someone is a drugs cheat of the back success after the period it happened is poor. People should investigate serious accusations but after the period you cant accuse someone unless you have evidence or a whistleblower

You still have not grasped the randomness of "Random" testing. Testing positive in a post fight blood test doesnt protect either fighter does it?

Taken from USADA website "Athletes can be tested 365 days a year without advance notice. Athletes are required to inform USADA of their daily regular schedule and must report any changes."

I said he asked for testing that is tougher than the NSAC testing. USADA were asked to implement what they do usually for athletes, nothing stricter than what they usually do - and he did not demand Manny to be tested the day before the fight. . . . Again, ill remind you that the NSAC tested Shane Mosely clean multiple times with their standard testing.

So the hero of the phillipines, who turned down random drug testing a couple of years before with every dodgy excuse under the sun, wanted a an independent lab to test him out in the phillipines while he trains there. . WADA would have sub contracted the sample collection and testing to accredited labs out there. . I can understand why Floyd wanted USADA (who collect samples themselves and have a proven track record) to do the testing.

Manny pac, a guy who started his career at 96lbs, moved up from 130lb to 147lb in less than 9 months and stopped ODH is crazy. Then went on to stop Cotto, and fought Margarito at 154 and pretty much ended his career? Taking both the speed and power up with him is amazing and almost unheard of. Factor in his decline in form proceeding the doping allegations, and the refusal to take random blood testing, you dont find this suspicious? And they even had a whistleblower in their own camp called Freddie Roach, who admitted he was suspicious of what supplements he was taking. Also Freddie Roach has coached several doped up fighters in the past. James Toney for example.

You know before the 4th JMM fight, JMM hired a known steroid chemist. JMM a guy nearing 40 looked absolutely jacked for the fight. Freddie Roach outright accused him of doping, JMM then said lets do random blood testing for the fight. . .Roach and Manny Pac turned down the testing. Manny got put to sleep in that fight.

I didnt need to copy or paste anything, the volumes i stated were from what i deal with in biomarker analysis. Quite frankly, the reasoning has been shown to be bullshit in hindsight, you cant deny this. A boxer not wanting to give a blood sample because they have a bad reaction? They shouldn't be boxing in the first place should they? A commission probably wouldn't even sanction them to fight if they stated this.

Factoring everything in, manny was stinking between 2008-2012.

 

[beats1]

You still have not grasped the randomness of "Random" testing. Testing positive in a post fight blood test doesnt protect either fighter does it?

I just stated what he agreed to and to say that I haven't grasped the randomness of random is just stupid. He agreed to random tests at any point during the run to the fight bar the couple of weeks before the fight. Which he then agreed to do with the USADA model but then didn't want the USADA involved.

Protect them? Then thats an issue of changing the whole of boxing to this framework as boxers aren't then protected when they go through standard practices. Also alot sports like F1 do testing after a race as well throughout the year.

Taken from USADA website "Athletes can be tested 365 days a year without advance notice. Athletes are required to inform USADA of their daily regular schedule and must report any changes."

Just repeating what I said earlier

Also I do have a good knowledge of anti doping practices since the majority of the students at my uni and even my course were actually athletes. The practices of WADA is that they have to know where you are and then they will show up at that destination randomly over a long period of time. So they will turn up at your house and you have to give them a sample.

I said he asked for testing that is tougher than the NSAC testing. USADA were asked to implement what they do usually for athletes, nothing stricter than what they usually do - and he did not demand Manny to be tested the day before the fight. . . . Again, ill remind you that the NSAC tested Shane Mosely clean multiple times with their standard testing.

Just going in circles

So the hero of the phillipines, who turned down random drug testing a couple of years before with every dodgy excuse under the sun, wanted a an independent lab to test him out in the phillipines while he trains there. . WADA would have sub contracted the sample collection and testing to accredited labs out there. . I can understand why Floyd wanted USADA (who collect samples themselves and have a proven track record) to do the testing.

So WADA isn't trustworthy now, I was stating what he said. That he agreed to the take the testing but didn't want the USADA, because of their close relationship with golden boy promotions. They had a lawsuit with Mayweather which involved the USADA, so its understandable they didn't want to use. Also the USADA sanctioned Morales after a fight for two years after they found him guilty a week before the fight. They didn't protect the fighter and allowed golden boy promotions to carry on the fight and the commission allowed the fight to continue

I didnt need to copy or paste anything, the volumes i stated were from what i deal with in biomarker analysis. Quite frankly, the reasoning has been shown to be bullshit in hindsight, you cant deny this. A boxer not wanting to give a blood sample because they have a bad reaction? They shouldn't be boxing in the first place should they? A commission probably wouldn't even sanction them to fight if they stated this.

Bullshit, you're free to check online the different types of reactions to blood tests and etc. and how doctors and nurses are to taught to deal with the patient, for example I suffered from a Vasovagal attack when I had a blood test. Which iirc people is more prone to people with Bradycardia

 

[Hoops]

Wait didn't Gazza beat his wife? and is he not loved on here? and in the UK?

Haters gonna hate.

 

[Hoops]

Ive been watching Mayweather since 2007 ish. Im not a trained boxer, but I see enough fights to have some appreciation for the sport.

I dont think it was a masterclass at all from Floyd. He basically ran the whole fight, and did just enough to win. His shots were not powerful, they were merely taps alot of them. With his hight and reach advantage it was difficult for Pacquiao to find him. But Pacs shots were more aggressive even if they didnt find Floyd often.

I honestly dont think anybody deserved to win, it was such a poor fight. It certainly wont live long in the memory. Fans will always say it should have taken place 5 years ago. Mayweather will never be classed as a top 5-10 all time great because a) true greats fight everybody in their prime and duck no one b) not enough people like him

 

[hans]

I just stated what he agreed to and to say that I haven't grasped the randomness of random is just stupid. He agreed to random tests at any point during the run to the fight bar the couple of weeks before the fight. Which he then agreed to do with the USADA model but then didn't want the USADA involved.

Protect them? Then thats an issue of changing the whole of boxing to this framework as boxers aren't then protected when they go through standard practices. Also alot sports like F1 do testing after a race as well throughout the year.

Just repeating what I said earlier


Just going in circles

So WADA isn't trustworthy now, I was stating what he said. That he agreed to the take the testing but didn't want the USADA, because of their close relationship with golden boy promotions. They had a lawsuit with Mayweather which involved the USADA, so its understandable they didn't want to use. Also the USADA sanctioned Morales after a fight for two years after they found him guilty a week before the fight. They didn't protect the fighter and allowed golden boy promotions to carry on the fight and the commission allowed the fight to continue

Bullshit, you're free to check online the different types of reactions to blood tests and etc. and how doctors and nurses are to taught to deal with the patient, for example I suffered from a Vasovagal attack when I had a blood test. Which iirc people is more prone to people with Bradycardia

Heres what you said (in addition to some strange notion you have about USADA scheduling a test the night before the fight. God knows where you got that from):

Errr no. Manny had no issue with random drug testing, he didn't want to do it the night before as he didn't recover mentally and physically from it

If you cant see the contradiction in your own words, then you're a lost cause mate.
There's nothing random about asking for a cut off date from testing. That's called an excuse. Olympic athletes have to submit to these tests no questions asked, a "bad reaction" does not fly. Cyclists and sprinters get testing hours before they race. You hang onto how standard practises seem to be ok in boxing. . .a sport where 2 guys are beating the shit out of each other. . . Again, did standard testing catch out Shane Mosely?
USADA did find Morales dirty, thus they did protect the fighter by letting him know before the fight. The fight was sanctioned because his opponent Danny Garcia waved it on. Now are you saying it would have been ok to let the fight happen, morales potentially brutally KO'ing Garcia, then get caught post fight in the standard testing regime?
Out of interest, what was this lawsuit they had with USADA and mayweather?

This olympic style testing is in to protect the fighters and to change the framework of boxing, i think Al Haymons entire stable of boxers now all undergo the testing for their PBC fights.

Im not saying it is not possible for people to have bad reactions to blood being taken, i dont need to google doctors procedures (!). There were no complaints after the fight from Pacman about adverse reactions to blood testing, and didnt he adopt olympic style testing for his own fights since the brandon rios fight? Quite a turn around ehh? The whole point about this being the reason to duck the fight 5 years ago is quite frankly bullshit. He likely was on the juice, and the range of excuses that came out of his camp and promoter showed he didnt want the fight. Case in point, when Pac and Bob arum turned down the floyd fight in 2012 before floyd went to jail. Would be nice if you could explain that ducking situation aswell.