Boxing thread?

[hans]

 

[Gbspurs]

This is going to rumble for a while. mega lawsuit or jail time?

 

[Insomnia]

Mayweather, for all his faults in & out of the ring is without doubt a great fighter, however, he has never been in a great fight. For those of us who grew up watching Hearns, Duran,Hagler,Lennard & Co he doesn't compare but I guess when he's old and grey with his zero still in tact & his wealth & health in fine condition he won't give a fuck & if he does? He'll just stick one on the missus to make himself feel better

 

[haxman]

Mayweather, for all his faults in & out of the ring is without doubt a great fighter, however, he has never been in a great fight. For those of us who grew up watching Hearns, Duran,Hagler,Lennard & Co he doesn't compare but I guess when he's old and grey with his zero still in tact & his wealth & health in fine condition he won't give a fuck & if he does? He'll just stick one on the missus to make himself feel better

The way he gambles I expect him to be broke 5 years after retiring.

 

[Mullers]

Mayweather, for all his faults in & out of the ring is without doubt a great fighter, however, he has never been in a great fight. For those of us who grew up watching Hearns, Duran,Hagler,Lennard & Co he doesn't compare but I guess when he's old and grey with his zero still in tact & his wealth & health in fine condition he won't give a fuck & if he does? He'll just stick one on the missus to make himself feel better

That's not his fault, he was just to good for all his opponents and he has definitely fought quality opponents. I think he does compare to all those you've mentioned.

 

[theShiznit]

So now he's (Pac) had surgery on his shoulder.

Where's the queue for people to sue for paying for the fight or betting on it...
They need to at least withhold his purse.

 

[Insomnia]

That's not his fault, he was just to good for all his opponents and he has definitely fought quality opponents. I think he does compare to all those you've mentioned.

His fights don't though

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Comparing eras in sport is difficult there is definately too many variables along with the rose tinted nostalgia, Mayweather holds up in any era in my opinion whether he maintains the 0 or not is a different question.

 

[hans]

Comparing eras in sport is difficult there is definately too many variables along with the rose tinted nostalgia, Mayweather holds up in any era in my opinion whether he maintains the 0 or not is a different question.

I think floyd would really struggle against Hearns at 147. the height, reach, speed and punching power could be too much

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

The Hitman was the one i had in mind when i said he may not have the 0, his height and range for a welter was ridiculous i suppose thats why he was able to move up the weights and still be the business.

 

[Shea]

Mayweather, for all his faults in & out of the ring is without doubt a great fighter, however, he has never been in a great fight. For those of us who grew up watching Hearns, Duran,Hagler,Lennard & Co he doesn't compare but I guess when he's old and grey with his zero still in tact & his wealth & health in fine condition he won't give a fuck & if he does? He'll just stick one on the missus to make himself feel better

I get exactly what you're saying

I'm not old enough to have ever seen the fights between the guys you mention (though I have watched a DVD about them and seen various fights involving them on youtube) but my dad was a huge fan of that era of boxing and talks expressly about what a golden age of talent and super fights between them there were

I understand what you're saying, in as far as Mayweather hasn't had the type of fights that make him a fan favourite and his style is too safe or he hasn't had the fights against enough all time greats in their primes

I also understand what @Mullers says when he suggests it's not Floyd's fault, that is true it's simply a matter of him being too good for his opponents and it's really their responsibility to drag him in to a good fight. He has fought a lot of top guys too, - Chavez, Castillo, Vargas, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, De la Hoya, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Maidana and now Pacquiao

True very few of those will be considered all time greats in the same light as the guys you mention, but who else could/should he have fought really? he's pretty much faced everyone who's ever been anyone in his era

His style is his style, it's not exciting, it's technically brilliant and impressive to the purist but certainly not made for super exciting fights that will ever catch the imagination of the public or live long in the memory

I kind of agree with both sides of the argument - for his ability he will certainly be remembered as an all time great, for the fights he had and the people he beat he will also be remembered as a great but he doesn't have those career defining fights based on the action that went down in them but that was never going to happen with his style unless someone was good enough to drag him in to deep waters and try to drowned him - through no fault of his own no one has ever been good enough to do so

I'd have liked him to show a bit more intent to end fights during his career though - he's perfectly capable and while playing it safe has worked out very well for him had he opened up a bit more and gone for the kill he'd have a higher knock out percentage and even while still outclassing everyone he's face would probably have been remembered as a more exciting fighter and a little more affectionately

He is head and shoulders the best fighter of my life time however and he will be remember as an all time great no question - the debates will be had "who would have won - Floyd or Sugar Ray" and fighters in the future will be compared to Floyd because he will retire undefeated as the best of his era

 

[Insomnia]

I get exactly what you're saying

I'm not old enough to have ever seen the fights between the guys you mention (though I have watched a DVD about them and seen various fights involving them on youtube) but my dad was a huge fan of that era of boxing and talks expressly about what a golden age of talent and super fights between them there were

I understand what you're saying, in as far as Mayweather hasn't had the type of fights that make him a fan favourite and his style is too safe or he hasn't had the fights against enough all time greats in their primes

I also understand what @Mullers says when he suggests it's not Floyd's fault, that is true it's simply a matter of him being too good for his opponents and it's really their responsibility to drag him in to a good fight. He has fought a lot of top guys too, - Chavez, Castillo, Vargas, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, De la Hoya, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Maidana and now Pacquiao

True very few of those will be considered all time greats in the same light as the guys you mention, but who else could/should he have fought really? he's pretty much faced everyone who's ever been anyone in his era

His style is his style, it's not exciting, it's technically brilliant and impressive to the purist but certainly not made for super exciting fights that will ever catch the imagination of the public or live long in the memory

I kind of agree with both sides of the argument - for his ability he will certainly be remembered as an all time great, for the fights he had and the people he beat he will also be remembered as a great but he doesn't have those career defining fights based on the action that went down in them but that was never going to happen with his style unless someone was good enough to drag him in to deep waters and try to drowned him - through no fault of his own no one has ever been good enough to do so

I'd have liked him to show a bit more intent to end fights during his career though - he's perfectly capable and while playing it safe has worked out very well for him had he opened up a bit more and gone for the kill he'd have a higher knock out percentage and even while still outclassing everyone he's face would probably have been remembered as a more exciting fighter and a little more affectionately

He is head and shoulders the best fighter of my life time however and he will be remember as an all time great no question - the debates will be had "who would have won - Floyd or Sugar Ray" and fighters in the future will be compared to Floyd because he will retire undefeated as the best of his era

This is my point exactly mate, you look at that list of fighters he's faced & not one of them fights springs to mind as a great fight let alone a classic & yet each & every one of the names on that list have been in great/ classic fights in their careers. It's his style that kills it for me, he wasn't a warrior type just a very very slick cagey fighter who found a way to win his fights without having to go to war. Just for that I don't get how he can honestly feel & say he's the greatest there ever was. I'll conceed that he's the greatest at what he does but to be honest he's never got me out of my seat the way the 80's guys did, even Hatton & Froch have had me jumping about, Mayweather? he's more Meh weather to me, respect him but I'm not a fan.

 

[Shea]

This is my point exactly mate, you look at that list of fighters he's faced & not one of them fights springs to mind as a great fight let alone a classic & yet each & every one of the names on that list have been in great/ classic fights in their careers. It's his style that kills it for me, he wasn't a warrior type just a very very slick cagey fighter who found a way to win his fights without having to go to war. Just for that I don't get how he can honestly feel & say he's the greatest there ever was. I'll conceed that he's the greatest at what he does but to be honest he's never got me out of my seat the way the 80's guys did, even Hatton & Froch have had me jumping about, Mayweather? he's more Meh weather to me, respect him but I'm not a fan.

He still will go down as an all time great though- as a boxer not a fighter perhaps

Even without the classic fights - he's still fought just about everyone who's been relevant in his weight classes during his time and he's taken belts at five weights in the process

He won't be remembered as one of the sports most exciting fighters of all times and he won't be remembered for being involved in many (if any) exciting fights or series of fights BUT he will be remembered as one of the most talented and greatest boxers of all time for his record, the people he's beat and how much he outclassed them

It's kind of two different things really - Castillo vs Corrales 1+2 will go down as all time great fights, as will the Ward/Gatti trilogies and Morales vs Barrera fights

In the UK Nigel Benn and as you mention Ricky Hatton will go down as legends for their memory exciting fights (more so Benn for me as during Ricky's time I had gone off the sport a little, but Benn vs Watson/Eubank/McCllean will be rememebred as some of the greatest fights seen in the UK despite Benn not being close to something like Mayweather's quality)

Two separate discussions - great fights and great fighters, not mutually exclusive (see Ali/Frasier and Hagler/Hearns) but not a necessity to be considered an all time great. Mayweather certainly will be considered an all time great for what he's done - even though like you I will not really remember any of his fights with fond memories

 

[Insomnia]

He still will go down as an all time great though- as a boxer not a fighter perhaps

Even without the classic fights - he's still fought just about everyone who's been relevant in his weight classes during his time and he's taken belts at five weights in the process

He won't be remembered as one of the sports most exciting fighters of all times and he won't be remembered for being involved in many (if any) exciting fights or series of fights BUT he will be remembered as one of the most talented and greatest boxers of all time for his record, the people he's beat and how much he outclassed them

It's kind of two different things really - Castillo vs Corrales 1+2 will go down as all time great fights, as will the Ward/Gatti trilogies and Morales vs Barrera fights

In the UK Nigel Benn and as you mention Ricky Hatton will go down as legends for their memory exciting fights (more so Benn for me as during Ricky's time I had gone off the sport a little, but Benn vs Watson/Eubank/McCllean will be rememebred as some of the greatest fights seen in the UK despite Benn not being close to something like Mayweather's quality)

Two separate discussions - great fights and great fighters, not mutually exclusive (see Ali/Frasier and Hagler/Hearns) but not a necessity to be considered an all time great. Mayweather certainly will be considered an all time great for what he's done - even though like you I will not really remember any of his fights with fond memories

hear what you're saying Shea I do, I love my boxing me, I'm playing golf tomorrow on the Peacock Gym's (Canning Town)Golf day, some legends have passed through their doors I can tell you & I'm lucky enough to call some old World Champs genuine friends of mine, Guys who excited their fans & put bumb on seats & World Class fighters on their backsides. Guys like John H Stracy had 76% KO records during their careers. Pretty Boy Money Wife Beater is barely over 50%.So I stand by what I said earlier, he will always be MehWeather to me

 

[Shea]

hear what you're saying Shea I do, I love my boxing me, I'm playing golf tomorrow on the Peacock Gym's (Canning Town)Golf day, some legends have passed through their doors I can tell you & I'm lucky enough to call some old World Champs genuine friends of mine, Guys who excited their fans & put bumb on seats & World Class fighters on their backsides. Guys like John H Stracy had 76% KO records during their careers. Pretty Boy Money Wife Beater is barely over 50%.So I stand by what I said earlier, he will always be MehWeather to me

I love boxing too - my granddad was obsessed with it and I used to watch with my dad during the early days of Tyson, Benn/Watson/Eubank all the way through to the Naseem Hamed era before I lost some interest and became more of a fan of Thai Boxing, K1 one and MMA (I was thai boxing at the time and no longer had any traditional boxers I was a fan of to really hold my attention to the sport)

I haven't heard of the guys you mention there - a little before my time and perhaps not mainstream enough for my to have read or seen about when watching my boxing history

I can agree with you 100% in terms of what makes me a fan of the sport - I did a fair amount of boxing training as a kid so I can appreciate the talent and skill someone like Floyd displays but as a fan I am all about seeing fights that excite me....as I said I grew up watching the likes of Nigel Benn and a young Mike Tyson and it was that explosive KO ending fights that made me fall in love with the sport and to this day it's what I want to see from a boxing match (knock downs, back and forth exchanges, drama and excitment....to me the Benn/McCllean fight had everything I want to see from a boxing match)

 

[Insomnia]

I love boxing too - my granddad was obsessed with it and I used to watch with my dad during the early days of Tyson, Benn/Watson/Eubank all the way through to the Naseem Hamed era before I lost some interest and became more of a fan of Thai Boxing, K1 one and MMA (I was thai boxing at the time and no longer had any traditional boxers I was a fan of to really hold my attention to the sport)

I haven't heard of the guys you mention there - a little before my time and perhaps not mainstream enough for my to have read or seen about when watching my boxing history

I can agree with you 100% in terms of what makes me a fan of the sport - I did a fair amount of boxing training as a kid so I can appreciate the talent and skill someone like Floyd displays but as a fan I am all about seeing fights that excite me....as I said I grew up watching the likes of Nigel Benn and a young Mike Tyson and it was that explosive KO ending fights that made me fall in love with the sport and to this day it's what I want to see from a boxing match (knock downs, back and forth exchanges, drama and excitment....to me the Benn/McCllean fight had everything I want to see from a boxing match)

I was lucky enough to be there, I was quite pally with Nigel in those days, he was incredible that night & to be 4 rows from the front was a night I won't forget in a hurry

 

[Shea]

I was lucky enough to be there, I was quite pally with Nigel in those days, he was incredible that night & to be 4 rows from the front was a night I won't forget in a hurry

I would have loved to be at the fight, along with Hamed vs Kelly and Tyson/Holyfield 1 it's my favourite fight ever

 

[riggi]

I'm going to watch some female Muay Thai tonight. Not sure I'll enjoy it tbh.. I'll try and keep an open mind.

 

[E17yid]

I'm going to watch some female Muay Thai tonight. Not sure I'll enjoy it tbh.. I'll try and keep an open mind.

Yeah, I can imagine westerners going there expecting a bit of foxy boxing but end up witnessing 2 women knocking the shit out of each other.

Good times.

 

[riggi]

Yeah, I can imagine westerners going there expecting a bit of foxy boxing but end up witnessing 2 women knocking the shit out of each other.

Good times.

Ladyboys aswell. Couldn't be arsed to wait. One of the girls from the gym is supposed to be fighting on Wednesday but we will miss it. Shame really.