Champions league revenue

[swarvsta]

In classic UEFA fashion, there are now two coefficients for double the "fun" and confusion.

The old coefficient system is one of the two. It's based on your performances in Europe for the five season preceding the current one - so for this season's competition, it's based on European performances from the group stage onwards between 13/14 and 17/18. This has no impact on the financial distribution - it's used to decide the seeded teams for qualifying rounds (irrelevent to us as English clubs no longer take part in them), and the pots for the group stage (which is fairly important). You get two points for a win, and one for a draw, as well as bonus points for progress. (4 points for being in the CL group stage, 5 points for reaching the last 16, and then 1 extra point for reaching each of the QF, SF and Final. For Europa sides, you also get the 1 bonus point for reaching eash of the QF/SF/Final, as well as a minimum of 3 points for the group stage - this isn't added to your total, it's just a minimum you'd still get if you reached the group stage but did worse than 1 win and 1 draw and didn't reach 3 points for wins/draws). Additionally, every club will instead use 20% of their league's coefficient if their own score is less than that - so if e.g. Wolves suddenly qualified for the CL having not played in Europe for several years, their coefficient would be 20% of the English League's score rather than 0, which would still see them ranked better than clubs like Lokomotiv Moscow or Standard Liege.

The new one isn't used for anything in terms of the tournament itself, just as part of the financial distribution. Points are accumulated the exact same way as in the old system, but over ten years rather than five - so for this season, performances all the way back to 08/09 are relevent. There's also no minimum score - if you haven't played in Europe for ten years, you score zero. And importantly, there's also an additional type of bonus points - Title Points. You get 12 points for every Champions League you've won in the five preceding seasons, 8 points for each you've won before then but after the Champions League replaced the European Cup in 1992, and 4 points for every pre-1992 European Cup. You also get a quarter of that amount of points (so 3, 2 or 1 depending on how long ago it was) for every Europea League, UEFA Cup or Cup Winners' Cup you've won. The clubs qualified for the Champions League are then ranked from 1st to 32nd based on this ranking, and the amount of money allocated based on coefficient is divided into 528 equal shares. The 32nd ranked club then gets 1 share, the 31st gets 2 shares etc up till the 1st ranked club gets 32 shares. This season each of those shares was worth €1.1m - so bottom-ranked club AEK Athens got that, us in 19th got €15.5M, United in 5th got €31m and Real Madrid at the top got €35.5m.

This new system isn't great for us sadly. First of all, going over ten years means we've got lots of fairly crap Europa League seasons in there because we never took it too seriously. Winning most of your group games and getting to the QF can be as good as getting to the CL knockouts, but we tended to play rotated sides, stumble through the group stage, and lose one of the early knockout ties. We're probably one of the ten best teams in Europe right now, but to rank 10th over ten years we'd need an average of 18.5 points per year, and before last season we'd done worse than that in every year bar one. The second reason, and part of why we need a pretty strong average, is because our title points are rubbish - we only get 3 for our 3 'minor' European trophies pre-1992. Liverpool, for instance, get 28, bumping them up 8 places in the rankings or in other words giving them around an extra €8.8m per year they qualify regardless of how well they actually do. Right now that isn't a deal breaker, but we can probably expect the amount of money allocated this way to increase over time, so there'll be even more benefit to us keeping up our consistent recent performances in Europe.

Brilliant post, thank you.

For the pot of money that is available, I assume you have to qualify for the current years competition in order to get the pay out?

 

[Saoirse]

Brilliant post, thank you.

For the pot of money that is available, I assume you have to qualify for the current years competition in order to get the pay out?

Yep. It's distributed to the 32 teams that reach the Champions League Group Stage. The same mechanism is used in the Europa but it's a smaller percentage of the overall revenue - it ends up being such a small amount it's hardly worth thinking about.

 

[Spurger King]

It’s pretty mental that even if we lose to Ajax we’ll have played all but one game in the CL, out of the maximum available.

Nobody can say we’re not value for money in the tournament this year either. It’s been full of drama.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Dumbfuck here but can some post how much we’ve likely earnt and how much we will earn if we win the thing

 

[tommyt]

Dumbfuck here but can some post how much we’ve likely earnt and how much we will earn if we win the thing

€106,000,000 if we win it.

Check out @SwissRamble’s Tweet:

 

[hellava_tough]

Dumbfuck here but can some post how much we’ve likely earnt and how much we will earn if we win the thing

#THFC Champions League earnings have increased from €61m to €86m for reaching the semi-final (i.e. two rounds further than previous season’s last 16), but they are adversely impacted by a relatively low UEFA coefficient (ranked 25th, but 19th best of qualified teams).

 

[hellava_tough]

Btw, not sure where the additional gate receipt figures are stated

I'm sure they're healthy, just wanted clarification

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

#THFC Champions League earnings have increased from €61m to €86m for reaching the semi-final (i.e. two rounds further than previous season’s last 16), but they are adversely impacted by a relatively low UEFA coefficient (ranked 25th, but 19th best of qualified teams).

Thanks- that’s a tasty wedge

 

[hellava_tough]

FYI revenues for 17/18:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League#2019

 

[coys200]

Gate receipts not included with Wembley and semi probably another £30m

 

[Saoirse]

Btw, not sure where the additional gate receipt figures are stated

I'm sure they're healthy, just wanted clarification

They aren't included in this, and we won't know them until the accounts are out next year. A rough estimate though, based on £60 a ticket at Wembley and £80 at NWHL (including corporate being higher than that) is £25m including the SF. I expect that's a little conservative, could be £30m with premium/corporate packages. But also possible there's game-by-game Wembley rent to take out of that along with staff/policing costs, with food/drink sales at NWHL to be added, so it's just a ballpark figure.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

#THFC Champions League earnings have increased from €61m to €86m for reaching the semi-final (i.e. two rounds further than previous season’s last 16), but they are adversely impacted by a relatively low UEFA coefficient (ranked 25th, but 19th best of qualified teams).

WARCHEST!

 

[hellava_tough]

They aren't included in this, and we won't know them until the accounts are out next year. A rough estimate though, based on £60 a ticket at Wembley and £80 at NWHL (including corporate being higher than that) is £25m including the SF. I expect that's a little conservative, could be £30m with premium/corporate packages. But also possible there's game-by-game Wembley rent to take out of that along with staff/policing costs, with food/drink sales at NWHL to be added, so it's just a ballpark figure.

Wasn't this super expensive after September this season, so pretty much covering all our home games until early April?

Hopefully the 19/20 figures, which will be out in 20/21, will show another bump in revenue because we won't be paying extortionate rent to Wembley.

 

[coys200]

Wasn't this super expensive after September this season, so pretty much covering all our home games until early April?

Hopefully the 19/20 figures, which will be out in 20/21, will show another bump in revenue because we won't be paying extortionate rent to Wembley.

The rent to Wembley would not effect the revenue figure we announce The drop off in attendance at Wembley however might. I reckon we lost about £500k per game at Wembley this season compared to had those games been at new Stadium . 18/19 figures must be a bit of a nightmare accounting wise having taken the ST money then given it back then including the ticket sales again.

 

[Saoirse]

Wasn't this super expensive after September this season, so pretty much covering all our home games until early April?

Hopefully the 19/20 figures, which will be out in 20/21, will show another bump in revenue because we won't be paying extortionate rent to Wembley.

As far as I know the rent cost was just media rumours, we have no idea just how much it really was.

 

[hellava_tough]

The rent to Wembley would not effect the revenue figure we announce The drop off in attendance at Wembley however might. I reckon we lost about £500k per game at Wembley this season compared to had those games been at new Stadium . 18/19 figures must be a bit of a nightmare accounting wise having taken the ST money then given it back then including the ticket sales again.

Good point; school boy error on my part

 

[coys200]

Financial related and very interesting so I’ll stick it in here. Business wise Levy is on another level to the rest.

 

[hellava_tough]

Financial related and very interesting so I’ll stick it in here. Business wise Levy is on another level to the rest. View attachment 49082

Interesting theory

I think more data is required to see if this is a trend or a coincidence

 

[coys200]

Interesting theory

I think more data is required to see if this is a trend or a coincidence

Seems pretty conclusive to me the 3 seasons prices have flattened out in the last 8 seasons have been our biggest spend. Would be a pretty big coincidence.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

In classic UEFA fashion, there are now two coefficients for double the "fun" and confusion.

The old coefficient system is one of the two. It's based on your performances in Europe for the five season preceding the current one - so for this season's competition, it's based on European performances from the group stage onwards between 13/14 and 17/18. This has no impact on the financial distribution - it's used to decide the seeded teams for qualifying rounds (irrelevent to us as English clubs no longer take part in them), and the pots for the group stage (which is fairly important). You get two points for a win, and one for a draw, as well as bonus points for progress. (4 points for being in the CL group stage, 5 points for reaching the last 16, and then 1 extra point for reaching each of the QF, SF and Final. For Europa sides, you also get the 1 bonus point for reaching eash of the QF/SF/Final, as well as a minimum of 3 points for the group stage - this isn't added to your total, it's just a minimum you'd still get if you reached the group stage but did worse than 1 win and 1 draw and didn't reach 3 points for wins/draws). Additionally, every club will instead use 20% of their league's coefficient if their own score is less than that - so if e.g. Wolves suddenly qualified for the CL having not played in Europe for several years, their coefficient would be 20% of the English League's score rather than 0, which would still see them ranked better than clubs like Lokomotiv Moscow or Standard Liege.

The new one isn't used for anything in terms of the tournament itself, just as part of the financial distribution. Points are accumulated the exact same way as in the old system, but over ten years rather than five - so for this season, performances all the way back to 08/09 are relevent. There's also no minimum score - if you haven't played in Europe for ten years, you score zero. And importantly, there's also an additional type of bonus points - Title Points. You get 12 points for every Champions League you've won in the five preceding seasons, 8 points for each you've won before then but after the Champions League replaced the European Cup in 1992, and 4 points for every pre-1992 European Cup. You also get a quarter of that amount of points (so 3, 2 or 1 depending on how long ago it was) for every Europea League, UEFA Cup or Cup Winners' Cup you've won. The clubs qualified for the Champions League are then ranked from 1st to 32nd based on this ranking, and the amount of money allocated based on coefficient is divided into 528 equal shares. The 32nd ranked club then gets 1 share, the 31st gets 2 shares etc up till the 1st ranked club gets 32 shares. This season each of those shares was worth €1.1m - so bottom-ranked club AEK Athens got that, us in 19th got €15.5M, United in 5th got €31m and Real Madrid at the top got €35.5m.

This new system isn't great for us sadly. First of all, going over ten years means we've got lots of fairly crap Europa League seasons in there because we never took it too seriously. Winning most of your group games and getting to the QF can be as good as getting to the CL knockouts, but we tended to play rotated sides, stumble through the group stage, and lose one of the early knockout ties. We're probably one of the ten best teams in Europe right now, but to rank 10th over ten years we'd need an average of 18.5 points per year, and before last season we'd done worse than that in every year bar one. The second reason, and part of why we need a pretty strong average, is because our title points are rubbish - we only get 3 for our 3 'minor' European trophies pre-1992. Liverpool, for instance, get 28, bumping them up 8 places in the rankings or in other words giving them around an extra €8.8m per year they qualify regardless of how well they actually do. Right now that isn't a deal breaker, but we can probably expect the amount of money allocated this way to increase over time, so there'll be even more benefit to us keeping up our consistent recent performances in Europe.

Thank you, excellent post. I already hated Europe, now I fucking hate Europe. I consider this to be progress.