T
thaiyid
Not a chance, name me one club who has had hugh success with that formation in the Premier League ?
Chelsea sign Michy Batshuayi
- Thread starter Spursmad321
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BobbyB
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- Aug 14, 2015
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Liverpool almost won the league with a very fluid 3-4-2-1 couple of seasons ago.
I think the problem is that a lot of people don´t understand how formations work with player´s personality and mentality. Kane is incredibly deep, Alli almost more of a striker than him a lot of games last year. Same with Dier, often dropping in between the centerbacks.
Did that make us play 4-4-2? Or did we play 3-5-2? One of the reasons 4-2-3-1 is a popular framework is because of the flexibility. The fullbacks can either be very defensive or almost wingers, the double-pivot can be an extra defender or two dynamic and attacking midfielders, the three behind the striker can be narrow or wingers or almost be strikers.
I have a feeling Poch wants a striker Kane can play off and give us more options in the box. How you facilitate that can be a number of ways, but dropping Dier down to form a three-back-line seems natural (like he´s already doing a lot in games and the whole game against Watford away last season). It might also make us better at seeing games out with five at the back when under pressure.
Sweech
Ruh Roh Ressegnon
- Jun 27, 2013
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Oh shit, I guess if it's never been done before it never will.
I'm not even agreeing with the other poster's logic of 3-5-2, but your argument is incredibly flawed. This league, especially recently, is notorious for breaking the norm.
theicemanspursscotty
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- Jan 31, 2013
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Lots of talk about guardiola moving to a back 3 with city as well, could happen...l
CoopsieDeadpool
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- Jun 8, 2012
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Thats pretty much how we set up with the ball anyway i.e. Dier dropping in and the full backs taking up advanced positions. We rarely stick to a rigid 4-2-3-1.
tottenmal
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- Aug 22, 2013
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Exactly, in the uk we have such a funny mentality when it comes to formations. Must be 4-4-2 to score more goals etc, but while we line up with a 4-2-3-1, as soon as we have the ball, Dier drops deep and we're playing with a back 3.
johnbowel
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- Jan 21, 2015
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I think Liverpool really demonstrate the obvious. They almost won the league because they had two brilliant goalscorers in Suarez and Sturridge. I'm not saying that's the only factor but I think a competent manager and hard working team aside it accounts for 90 percent of it. This season, Leicester.. LEICESTER... worked hard, but won the premier league because Vardy and Mahrez kept scoring. Maybe workrate is the other significant factor but I just think this very simple truth got a bit lost during everyone having vaginal cramps over tik-taka etc.
Two blokes scoring around 40 + league goals between them and at worst you will challenge imo
Two top goal scorers? try 1. Suarez was on fire, meant teams double marked him and gave Sturridge, who is toilet imo, about 7 yards of space every time he got the ball. When fit, Sturridge has never score even close to that many goals/ that level of proficiency per game.
Mahrez did not score that much. Vardy didn't in the last 5-8 games or so, so this whole argument is flawed. They won the league because they won games when they didn't play well. That is how Utd did it for almost a decade.
And topped off with a jovial sexist sentiment. Top post!
alexis
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- Sep 1, 2012
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Think I get what your saying
Nigel Spinal
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Kane got 28 and Alli 10
danielneeds
Kick-Ass
- May 5, 2004
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Not sure what you are on about here, as Suarez missed the start of their 2nd place season and Sturridge was scoring freely, and his scoring record for Liverpool is largely the same with or without Suarez.
Klinsmannesque
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- Jul 26, 2013
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Sturridge has scored 43 in 69 for Liverpool. Suarez scored 69 in 110 for Liverpool. Both were excellent in Suarez's final season. With the pace of Sterling as well, teams just couldn't handle them. To call Sturridge toilet makes me wonder what you actually watch. Fragile yes. A complete twat most definitely. But fit and playing, far from toilet.
johnbowel
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- Jan 21, 2015
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If you think scoring over 20 league goals in under 30 games makes him 'toilet', and is all down to Suarez being double marked, I can only bow to such a sophisticated and nuanced analysis. He's not as good as Suarez and his dance makes me want to dig my own grave... but 'toilet'. Congrats on that.
You don't seem to be in touch with reality. Mahrez scored 17 league goals and was the best player in the league. Vardy scored, what was it.. 24 league goals? But yeah you're right. A mere pittance that contributed little to their season because Vardy didn't score in the last few games.
And 'A jovial sexist sentiment'... get a grip, captain SJW. Explain exactly how the words 'vaginal cramps' are sexist. You know, with reasoning rather than a triggered non-sequitur. If you have ever called someone a dick, you're a sexist hypocrite.
It's weird that you had such a tantrum over such an innocuous post.
johnbowel
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- Jan 21, 2015
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I think that's largely why we came third. Workrate too. Imagine us with another 15-20 league goal forward.
I just typed second then had to go back and correct myself
Trix
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- Jul 29, 2004
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I think that's largely why we came third. Workrate too. Imagine us with another 15-20 league goal forward.
I just typed second then had to go back and correct myself
If you had another Striker scoring 20 + goals on top of Harry's contributions then it's likely your midfield would score less.
Nigel Spinal
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I think that's largely why we came third. Workrate too. Imagine us with another 15-20 league goal forward.
I just typed second then had to go back and correct myself
But then we'd lose Alli's goals and link-up play with Kane. Or the creativity of Eriksen and Lamela, and certainly their workrate.
A second striker doesn't mean a 12th player. It means you have to go 4 vs 5 in midfield
For the love of Spurs
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- Mar 28, 2015
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Depends, Alli can always play the central behind Kane or even his original position CM. Any wide forward striker still has pressing and defending duties, we ain't signing a target man like Charlie Austin.
It's not about having 12 players, it's about having a better balance. A previous posing about 2 passers and 2 runners might be an over simplification but there is truth in it. Many times this season we have really needed a quick direct player to stretch or surprise the opposition like what Martial does for United but not had that option.
Just think of Eriksen with the ball having a passing option of a runner like Lacazette with his speed power and finishing, it gives us a different dimension. Not saying we use it every game but more tools should mean more points.
johnbowel
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I don't disagree with either of your posts but losing 10 goals (which won't happen imo) and gaining 20 is gaining 10... not that things are that simple, due to the point about changing the shape in midfield.
By the same token, gaining a second forward doesn't mean we have 10 men, it means we gain one in attack. What I think in the main is that two forwards/goalscorers doesn't detract from the midfield, it actually moves possession further up the pitch and means our midfield gains an attacking impetus it lacks right now, for me. A lot of matches are lost when teams go on the defensive to hold onto a lead- we are guilty of it, and I think having few runners ahead has a similar effect.
The relationship between a 433 and 4231 or whatever should be fluid and at the moment we don't have any ability to shift our team shape. We feel a bit flat imo, and disjointed, and that's because Alli Eriksen Lamela isn't very balanced in terms of offering no width (I don't really buy the full backs as wingers thing, the very top teams have much more mobility in attack, and I think it's offered as a justification for our lack of that - maybe I'm wrong).
I think Alli's position is very debatable too. I just dislike having two number 10s who don't beat players, and Alli who in my opinion isn't even a number 10, crowding round, offering similar things. Obviously, they have enough quality that it's not the end of the world (third in league) but add a real wing forward to that and the balance is much better. Who plays and who doesn't is a question that top teams face all the time.
Eriksen was also extremely successful as a left sided forward-ish in Holland - I didn't watch enough to say much about it, but stats show that too. I think our players positions are all a bit strained right now and something has to give.
It's all about finding the right balance, and we feel... a bit fat around the neck. Tottenham has goiter.
