Club to trial NHS COVID Pass at Arsenal double header

[Neon_Knight_]

I haven't read Deans links and haven't read many of the previous posts in this thread, yours was the first post I had viewed. The point I found derogatory is why should someone be called an 'anti -vaxxer' if they are concerned about the long term risks. Quite simply we don't know until we have more data and when clinical trials conclude in 2023.

I didn't call anyone specifically an anti-vaxxer (certainly not anyone on SC) and never claimed or implied that everyone with concerns about the vaccine is an anti-vaxxer.
The scaremongering by anti-vaxxers (it is an undeniable fact that this exists) is feeding concerns of both anti-vaxxers and non-anti-vaxxers alike. It's therefore difficult to comment on people's concerns about the vaccine in a meaningful way without mentioning anti-vaxxers.

 

[ralvy]

Why anyone would want to take the risk of the covid lottery is beyond me, I've seen healthy young people get really ill, thankfully nothing worse by many have. Let's not forget a large part of this is to try and protect others too so sometimes we need to act a little more selflessly.

If I read correctly you can also get a covid pass with a negative test, is that correct?

Because the vaccine is also a bit of a lottery, isn't it? And while the probabilities of a person being dealt a negative card are apparently far lower than with the covid lottery, the following are also true:

1. If I take the shot, I'm surely buying a lottery ticket, whereas if I don't, I'm also playing a previous lottery (the one of whether I will ever be infected or won't).

2. Side effects of the vaccine could kill me or damage my heart or some other vital organs, preventing me from living the kind of life I want to. Whereas if covid really goes bad with me, I will either recover or die, but in any case I wouldn't spend years suffering because of a life filled with unfulfilled promises and dreams.

Also, regarding your point about selflessness: if the vaccine really does work, then why does it matter if I take it or not? Since those who want to be protected will for sure be vaccinated. Given that vaccinated people can still be infected, the virus will keep mutating anyway, regardless if people are vaccinated or not, so me being vaccinated really doesn't make a difference to anyone but me. Please tell me how I'm wrong about any of this and why? I'm asking seriously, I'm open to change my mind about this

 

[alpha]

I wouldn't consider that website the most reputable of sources, as there is nothing to prove it wasn't created by a random individual sitting in a basement somewhere with no understanding of what they've posted or a personal agenda.

I would suggest you check out some of the studies and sources yourself before asserting such a statement.

 

[ralvy]

Wow this has flushed out the anti vaxxers. I know who to ignore in future.

Being anti-covid vaccine isn't necessarily the same as being an anti-vaxxer though.

 

[staker]

It does have to do with science, but maybe with it's uglier side. I mean, we're pretty much being treated as guinea pigs.

I'm scheduled to take the vaccine this Friday, but I'm still not sure if I will go with it or not. I'm in my early 30s and practice tennis several hours a day (and condition myself accordingly), so maybe to me it would make more sense to risk being infected with covid-19 one day, than to take a vaccine that's still in its experimental phase (for long term risks), and for which shorter term risks have already been demonstrated.

As someone who has lost my sister and brother-in-law to Covid, I think it makes more sense to have the vaccine irrespective of whether you think the vaccine is in the experimental stage (which personally I think isn't the case).

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Because the vaccine is also a bit of a lottery, isn't it? And while the probabilities of a person being dealt a negative card are apparently far lower than with the covid lottery, the following are also true:

1. If I take the shot, I'm surely buying a lottery ticket, whereas if I don't, I'm also playing a previous lottery (the one of whether I will ever be infected or won't).

Your analogy doesn;t really work:
If you buy two lottery tickets (let's say one on the national lottery and one for EuroMillions), you have more chance of winning the lottery than if you had only bought one of those tickets. The second ticket does not reduce the probability of the first being a winning ticket.
If you take the vaccine, you are massively reducing your risk of contracting COVID-19, by a factor that statistically outweighs (by a huge margin) the risk of adverse side-effects from the vaccine.

2. Side effects of the vaccine could kill me or damage my heart or some other vital organs, preventing me from living the kind of life I want to. Whereas if covid really goes bad with me, I will either recover or die, but in any case I wouldn't spend years suffering because of a life filled with unfulfilled promises and dreams.

COVID-19 can and has caused permanent damage to people's organs. Lungs, kidneys, liver, heart etc.
COVID-19 can also cause blood clots - which happens to be one of the highest profile risks of COVID vaccination. In fact, it is thought COVID-19 puts people at far greater risk of blood clots (and therefore fatality / life-changing health issues) than vaccination...I don't think the research on this is conclusive yet though. Living with stroke-induced brain damage that was caused by a COVID-induced blood clot is certainly not a "recover or die" scenario.

 

[Humbolt]

Being anti-covid vaccine isn't necesarelly being the same as an anti-vaxxer though.

Pretty sure the Venn Diagram for that one is a perfect circle...

 

[Dazzazzad]

Plus you then get:

Researcher: ‘We Made a Big Mistake’ on COVID-19 Vaccine

June 15, 2021 By Dr. Joseph Mercola Canadian immunologist and vaccine researcher Byram Bridle, Ph.D., has gained access to Pfizer’s biodistribution study from the Japanese regulatory agency. T…

rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com

The vaccination hasn't been tested enough. Except on 167 poor, innocent, mice and monkeys. Why the fuck they have been test subjects is TOTALLY beyond my comprehension.

With minimal human test subjects.

Carry on trusting who you like dude - makes no difference to me. Just be savvy enough to do your research first.

Lol, there's Mercola - that guy is an absolute fraud. He's been pumping his BS products and bad science for decades.

From tanning beds to supplements that "help to virtually eliminate your risk of developing cancer in the future" to his Natural Health Center services that cover "detoxification, chiropractic, Dispensary, Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), Functional Medicine Program, homeopathy, Neuro-Structural Integration Technique (NST), Nutritional Typing Test, thermography, Total Body Modification (TBM), and Active Isolated Stretching".

If there's any way to cash in on people who have concerns over science and medicine, this guy is first in line to profit.

Total scumbag.

Only on page 1 of the thread so sorry if someone already covered this.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

If this Covid pass or negative test becomes the norm then clubs are going to have to offer refunds. For all Spurs games you have to purchase in advance e.g Chelsea game goes on sale 29th July for a game that will be played 19th September. So if you haven't had the two jabs you need a test 48 hrs before the game , if you have spent £90 on a ticket and your test proves positive and you can't get in are you expected to forfeit £90 or whatever you have paid for a ticket.
Simple answer to save all the aggro of maybe failing a test just before a game is get the two jabs , I know a couple of people who have had the virus hardly had any symptoms just thought it was a cold but they would fail the test if trying to go to a match.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I would suggest you check out some of the studies and sources yourself before asserting such a statement.

I was commenting on the website that was presenting the studies and was very specific about not reaching any conclusions. I even stated that none of the information looked contentious. Talk about being on the defensive...

It is not a highly reputable website, as it is an unknown source that offers no evidence of its credentials. I'm not claiming the information on the website is incorrect, but am suggesting that it would be advisable to instead turn to reputable sources for such a serious matter. I'm unsure how this is in any way controversial or objectionable.

If I want accurate player stats, I would sooner turn to Opta than a random and unverifiable website that I found via Google.
Both sources may give identical information. If I only look at Opta, I would trust it. Conversley, I would only trust the random site if I had verified it by comparing it to Opta (or another reputable source, such as the official PL website). Either could contain incorrect infomration, but Opta is more likely to be correct - so that's the one I would spend my time looking at.
That's common sense right? So why should the bar for researching one of the most serious global issues of our life-times be lower than it is for trivial football stats?

 

[ralvy]

Your analogy doesn;t really work:
If you buy two lottery tickets (let's say one on the national lottery and one for EuroMillions), you have more chance of winning the lottery than if you had only bought one of those tickets. The second ticket does not reduce the probability of the first being a winning ticket.
If you take the vaccine, you are massively reducing your risk of contracting COVID-19, by a factor that statistically outweighs (by a huge margin) the risk of adverse side-effects from the vaccine.

I think you're missing my point: it's not a certainty that I will ever be infected with covid, specially as herd immunity is approaching in most places. But if I take the shot, I'm fully signing myself up to play that lottery.

COVID-19 can and has caused permanent damage to people's organs. Lungs, kidneys, liver, heart etc.
COVID-19 can also cause blood clots - which happens to be one of the highest profile risks of COVID vaccination. In fact, it is thought COVID-19 puts people at far greater risk of blood clots (and therefore fatality / life-changing health issues) than vaccination...I don;t think the research on this is conclusive yet though.

Thank you for that, I really just need a little push to go through with my vaccination scheduled for this friday and to convince myself that I'm really doing it for the right reasons and not just to comply or whatever.

 

[Humbolt]

But getting back to the original story for a second. I'm completely in favour of having COVID vaccination passports for football/gigs/holidays etc. I personally don't care if the unvaccinated have to live underground like fucking Morlocks. It might be the only way to persuade them to stop being so selfish and take their medicine.

 

[Tonio]

If Covid neg entry becomes the norm then will it be a NHS free test or a company like Randox or Chronomics whereby you have to pay for it?

 

[Tonio]

like fucking Morlocks

Lol that made me chuckle

 

[ralvy]

Pretty sure the Venn Diagram for that one is a perfect circle...

Not really, there are a lot of legitimate reasons to doubt this vaccine, specially given how rushed the process was and how it's being pushed so heavily by government agencies and actors who have proven to not be reliable on these type of issues.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I think you're missing my point: it's not a certainty that I will ever be infected with covid, specially as herd immunity is approaching in most places. But if I take the shot, I'm fully signing myself up to play that lottery.



Thank you for that, I really just need a little push to go through with my vaccination scheduled for this friday and to convince myself that I'm really doing it for the right reasons and not just to comply or whatever.

I did get your point, but was trying to emphasise that although your choosing to sign up to a lottery it's actually reducing your overall risk...even if it doesn't feel like it.

I had my second jab of the Pfizer vaccine a few days ago. Both times it felt a bit like I'd been punched in the arm by Mike Tyson the following day, but nothing other than that.

 

[HarryTed14]

I was fairly anxious about going to the game but did feel like it was a step back to normality. I’ve much less anxious now after hearing we are trialing this. However I’ve seen in other groups and Twitter people saying don’t take the test and just report it as negative?
Its a shame we seem to have lost the basic respect of each other that we can’t even do a simple test that will help protect the millions of people who can’t have the vaccine but want to enjoy things.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Not really, there are a lot of legitimate reasons to doubt this vaccine, specially given how rushed the process was and how it's being pushed so heavily by government agencies and actors who have proven to not be reliable on these type of issues.

This is a point that most people (even those choosing to get vaccinated) seem to misunderstand.
Coronavirus vaccinations have been researched for years - the mRNA approach was developed specifically for coronaviruses - due to the known global risk that coronaviruses present. This meant researchers didn't have to start from square one when COVID-19 (a specific type of coronavirus), which knocked years off the process for developing new vaccines.
The three stages of clinical trials (on humans) were run with overlapping finishes/starts, rather than one starting before the other. Findings of each stage were reviewed while the subsequent stage was underway, rather than having long periods of time between stages (but as much review took place overall prior to approval). This put trial participants at higher risk, but not those of us receiving the vaccines following completion of the trials.
Governments committed £billions to the research efforts - even though it meant committing to purchasing more vaccines in total than their population could use - so that pharmaceutical companies could progress things more quickly without taking on untenable financial risks.
Staff resources (in addition to finances) were refocused to enable progress to be made at the highest pace possible.
It was easy to get high numbers of trial participants, because it's such a widespread virus and loads of people were keen to volunteer, so that meant they could progress trials without any recruitment delays.

 

[WannaDanceWithUdogie]

Let me preface this by saying i've had my first dose as have all my mates as soon as it opened to 18 year old's, but I am really split on the idea of passports as I think it sets a dangerous precedent - however if a negative test is also proof I have no issues with it

 

[Phantom]

This has been my favourite thread today, well done people. The despair I feel reading the conspiracy theories is immediately overridden when that person is being dogpiled by the majority.