Club to trial NHS COVID Pass at Arsenal double header

[Humbolt]

What, so you think a bunch of links somehow proves that there are no legitimate concerns regarding drug treatments which officially are still on an experimental phase and which have been proven to pose a risk of major health side-effects, no matter how low the probability of such risks may be?

You're moving the goal posts. You claimed in your previous post that there are:

a lot of legitimate reasons to doubt this vaccine, specially given how rushed the process was

I provided lots of verifiable facts from very reputable sources (the NHS, Reuters, The Australian Government and UCL University) which explained in layman's terms why the vaccines have been approved so quickly. Links that you've obviously decided not to even glance at because of your obvious cognitive dissonance. Now all of a sudden you've quickly shifted from the speedy approvals process to the potential risk of side effects. So let's look at the risk of these side effects...

Is the COVID-19 Vaccine Safe?

Our experts answer some frequently asked questions about vaccine safety.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

John Hopkins Medicine reports around 1000 cases of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the lining outside the heart). But considering that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered, that's a pretty insignificant number. Especially bearing in mind the virus has already killed over 4 million people worldwide. The American CDC also reports that side effects are very rare. But considering we live in a world where over 40,000 people are injured on the toilet each year, and yet we see no clamour to ban the loo from our homes, the statistical probability of a fatal vaccine side effect is so negligible that's it's really not worth worrying about.

I thought you people were supposed to be all about the science.

El Oh fucking el...

So are you saying you're NOT about the science?? What's your decision making process based on? Magic? Witchcraft? Clairvoyance?? Also, what do you mean by 'you people'?

Pretty much anyone appearing on msm these days is unreliable, everyone seems to have an agenda.

Well duh! Of course everyone has an agenda! Agenda is merely a synonym for motivation and everyone has a motivation for doing things. I'd suggest you try removing yourself from whatever echo chamber you currently inhabit, because living in a state of outright paranoia about the news isn't healthy.

Just look in the US, how the same people who are begging everyone to take the vaccine are the same people who just a few months ago were saying they wouldn't be taking what they deemed to be Trump's vaccine (meaning Moderna and Pfizer, I think), since they couldn't trust it.

Poor example. You have two sides that are now so divided that achieving any form of consensus on anything seems impossible. Personally I couldn't give a toss what the Yanks are up to. I don't live there, don't want to live there, not even sure I'd want to visit the place TBH.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

for real, the trials end in 2023 most vaccines take 10-15 years to get right and in that time you get a picture of long term effects.

Pretty sure I've read those who work on vaccines say it often take 10-15 years because a lot of that time is waiting for funding.

now we see an increase of overall mortality in countries that have higher covid vaccine roll.
out

Erm no?

 

[ralvy]

You're moving the goal posts. You claimed in your previous post that there are:



I provided lots of verifiable facts from very reputable sources (the NHS, Reuters, The Australian Government and UCL University) which explained in layman's terms why the vaccines have been approved so quickly. Links that you've obviously decided not to even glance at because of your obvious cognitive dissonance. Now all of a sudden you've quickly shifted from the speedy approvals process to the potential risk of side effects. So let's look at the risk of these side effects...

Hey, sorry if you felt like I moved the goal posts or whatever. The reason I didn't give your links even a glance, it's because whatever they say, as compelling as it may be, it's completely irrelevant to the point I was making before (and to which you were answering to).

Please note that my original point was that the vaccines being rushed out and still being officially experimental drugs are legitimate concerns to be had, meaning that people are right to feel worried about such things and to question the safety and/or efficacy of the vaccines because of it. If then they go and decided to do a little research and, say, find some of the links you posted, and their minds are put at ease with the information they found, it still doesn't change the fact that their concerns were legitimate to begin with.

Is the COVID-19 Vaccine Safe?

Our experts answer some frequently asked questions about vaccine safety.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

John Hopkins Medicine reports around 1000 cases of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the lining outside the heart). But considering that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered, that's a pretty insignificant number. Especially bearing in mind the virus has already killed over 4 million people worldwide. The American CDC also reports that side effects are very rare. But considering we live in a world where over 40,000 people are injured on the toilet each year, and yet we see no clamour to ban the loo from our homes, the statistical probability of a fatal vaccine side effect is so negligible that's it's really not worth worrying about.

Yes, side effects may be an statistical improbability, but that doesn't mean people are not right to feel concerned about them, and specially when they are given by a drug meant to prevent a disease with such a low mortality rate. This is a bit like saying that a person who has been struck by a lightning once shouldn't feel concerned if he's caught by an electrical storm while playing golf or something.

El Oh fucking el...

So are you saying you're NOT about the science?? What's your decision making process based on? Magic? Witchcraft? Clairvoyance?? Also, what do you mean by 'you people'?

Nah, I'm an actual scientist. Like, with a university degree and a salary and all.

Obviously, what I meant to say was that having concerns about a drug which still hasn't undergone all of it's experimental phases it's supported by science (pretty much the reason those trials exist), but nice attempt at trying to twist what I say just to have a little pop at me.

Well duh! Of course everyone has an agenda! Agenda is merely a synonym for motivation and everyone has a motivation for doing things. I'd suggest you try removing yourself from whatever echo chamber you currently inhabit, because living in a state of outright paranoia about the news isn't healthy.

Oh, so now I'm inside an echo chamber, right? Maybe you're the one inside an echo chamber, have you ever considered that?

Also, I've seen msm media lie again and again for the past several years. It's not that I feel paranoia, they simply have completely lost any trust I had in them.

Poor example. You have two sides that are now so divided that achieving any form of consensus on anything seems impossible. Personally I couldn't give a toss what the Yanks are up to. I don't live there, don't want to live there, not even sure I'd want to visit the place TBH.

I would agree with you here, if it wasn't for the fact that they are one of the most influential nations in the world and pretty much the whole world consumes their media. But don't worry, next time I sport an example from the UK, I will make sure to share it with you.

 

[ralvy]

In most circumstances you would be correct but trump is not a normal president and if people paid attention to his advice there would probably be even more deaths (bleach use, not wearing masks, relying on medication with no evidence behind it like hydroxy whatever its name was etc).. He actually has only recently for the second time recommended people should get it, he was hardly promoting it as most world leaders have been. Almost every statement he made about it was that he was so brilliant for coming up with it.

Well, Joe Biden ain't a normal president either. Do you think it would be responsible for any media figure to tell to the world that they are not going to be taking the vaccine because Joe Biden is the one asking them to get vaccinated?

I've looked it up for you, Joe Biden said he wasn't sure he would trust a vaccine approved by the Trump administration because he was not sure that Trump would put peoples lives before political gain. Which is a fair enough statement to me, Trump lies almost as easily as he breathes.

Oh, it's fair enough to you, is it? Are you considering that:

a. Joe Biden knew for a fact Trump wasn't involved whatsoever in the developing and approval of the vaccines (since he's not even a pharmacists, medical researcher or anything like that). Why would he act like Trump had any say regarding this matter?

b. At the time of making those statements, no one knew if Trump would or wouldn't be re-elected. So imagine if Trump would have been re-elected, what Joe Biden said could have helped to spread severely vaccine hesitancy among the population. For someone who keeps claiming how much he wants everyone to get vaccinated, that seems to be a very counterproductive move, don't you think so? But I guess that was a fair thing to do, considering he simply was playing politics at the time, right?

But at the same time your comment was that people have flipped their position on the vaccine on mainstream media. There may well be examples but what we are seeing right now is fox news have gone from basically anti-vax to pro vax in the last 5 days or so.

My comment was that no-one in the media can be trusted to be telling the truth anymore about anything, and used the position-flipping as an example.

 

[mawspurs]

Premier League clubs reportedly told to trial vaccine passports for next season

The Premier League season is set to get underway in just over three weeks when Arsenal face Brentford on August 13

www.football.london