Comolli and Ramos..

[chrissivad]

If you do not, you have to think about changeing your opinion. He is the main man behind our progress.

Name the players we have (Commoli) have signed that have shone in the Premiership...

Bale and Berbatov.

Not realy hard scouting when one you play against in Europe and the other is in the papers at the next Giggs and Man U want him

 

[striebs]

The general shabbiness is a symptom of Levy fattening us up for market .

Jol's face didn't fit for our prospective buyers . Nothing short of results which exceeded what Levy thought that squad was capable of would have saved him .

Commoli might be a tosser but he shouldn't be made a scapegoat for that .

 

[dynamoSpurs]

The big difference is that Ramos is sitting on a big reputation and an enormous contract; this gives him more clout than Jol ever had. Ramos has worked with a real Director of Football at Sevilla and he know how the system can and should work. If the club fail to provide the resources he needs to do the job, he is going to kick up. If come the end of the season we have not turned a corner the club will have another vacancy to fill, and this time we will not be looking for a new manager.

That's what I thought, that Juanda don't take no BS... Yet Comolli has clearly stated that "Juanda will propose the characteristics of the player he wants and I will find him".

That is not very encouraging.

Its bullcrap. How much say do our 'managers' have? Who knows? To me, they seem like puppets with Comolli there.

 

[eViL]

But we aren't taking on Managers, we're taking on Head Coaches you dumbass!

 

[SpurSince57]

But we're used to calling them 'managers', so 'managers' is what we continue to call them. The whole system is very blurred.

 

[striebs]

But we're used to calling them 'managers', so 'managers' is what we continue to call them. The whole system is very blurred.

Even the club can't make up their mind . They referred to Martin Jol as our manager in the statement on our official site .

I can only deduce that when things are going well the title is head coach and when they are going badly the title is manager .

 

[SpursManChris]

I don't see why they can't operate together in the transfer window. If Comolli is as intelligent as he looks, then he will realise that this makes sense, having two lots of contacts between them both and he's an idiot if he abuses his power. At the moment I think he'd be a useful man to have around, but not if he hides away somewhere during the window and makes signings without consulting Ramos or Jol when he was in charge, I just don't see how it could work. Comolli is after all NOT the man working with the players and I think Ramos will have to let him know this. Not to mention some of his signings, I think we can all agree, have been questionable.

 

[tRiKS]

I don't care what they say, i don't believe he's Comolli's appointment and therefore don't necessarily think Comolli should have to leave if he doesn't work out. It's easy for the board, Ramos and Comolli himself to say he's his appointment and it is definitely the right thing to say, but it just doesn't make much sense. He's an ideal Plc appointment, but from Comolli's point of view, then it seems a less than perfect match.

I know what you mean about Comolli not coming across well, but I just think he lacks character in is never going to be good with the media. He doesn't come across as the kind of guy that would be a laugh down the pub.

i'm very convinced Ramos is Commolis man. The altreantive to that view doesn't bare thinking about Joey. the idea that the cultural overseer of tottenahsm hotspur FC (not PLC) didn't chose the coach would make us the worst bunch of cocks on planet earth. Levy isn't that dumb. ... Commolis fluent Spainish in the press conference also backs up my view it think.

 

[tRiKS]

Our DoF system is one of those things that the media will take a pop at every so often. It obviously can work and there are many examples across europe plus, to a lesser extent teams like reading have a similar system in place.

It has been said by many that we have the best squad we have had for years so is Comolli worthy of praise for that? It has also been said we haven't signed a left winger for ever and we're missing a gk, cb, dm so should we lay the blame on Comolli?

The difficulty for me is that the exact responsibilities of our DoF have never been clear to me. Is Comolli just a glorified scout or does he have say over the manager? I also agree with Joey about us not knowing Comolli's brief. Judging by our signings over the last few windows it seems we're intent in signing younger players like Bale rather than the Petrovs of this world but is this Comolli's idea or a decree from Levy?

On a fundamental level it works and it has worked to extraordinary degrees but not so far in the PL. Cultural differences for the indigenous fans and coaches make the concept easily open to scrutiny and questions and that inevitably causes vibes and unrest which can impact on the pitch. However that culture is certainly shifting as overseas players who have performed under that system and more overseas coaches familiar with and in many cases have thrived under it, are now working in the PL. On a base level I think it works and will work (not nessessarily for spurs)

It’s a pay off isn’t it. On one hand you have a club that is molded by a manager, on the other hand you have a club molded despite the manager but a team that is controlled by a coach. The advantage of the latter, is a strategy and culture that runs beyond the tenure or even life expectancy of an individual and provided that is a successful culture, it can reign as such for decades. The disadvantage is that during an individuals tenure there is an extra area of disagreement (the DOF) and a diminishment/dilution of responsibility in purchases which potentially can impact on results.

I like the fact that DOF system is set up to deal with things from a positive perspective.. its’ to safe guard the club against a manager doing well and then getting taken, so the replacement can slot in. It obviously though looks messy when the opposite is true and the club isn’t doing well so they choose to sack and because the system has labels, we can all see more clearly the cracks where as other clubs not with the system can cover them so we’ll never know and in many cases never question.

I don’t have a problem with the system because I see the same frailties in any system and that is; that it depends on individuals doing the jobs well and in tune with each other.. that is the case for manger and chairman at clubs without a DOF too.

I think as well we need to consider that there are very few clubs that a top manager would stay at forever and even less top class coaches available for all the best clubs. most will move for promotion or through failure. The best clubs are at an advantage in terms of good mangers wanting to stay. the clubs hoping to get up there are in the most vulnerable position because brilliant coaches wanting the best job use them as the best stepping stone. Maybe on merit the DOF system for all it’s apparent contradictions is the lesser of two evils when you want to progress and build a clubs wining culture for a sustained period of time.

 

[tRiKS]

I don't see why they can't operate together in the transfer window. If Comolli is as intelligent as he looks, then he will realise that this makes sense, having two lots of contacts between them both and he's an idiot if he abuses his power. At the moment I think he'd be a useful man to have around, but not if he hides away somewhere during the window and makes signings without consulting Ramos or Jol when he was in charge, I just don't see how it could work. Comolli is after all NOT the man working with the players and I think Ramos will have to let him know this. Not to mention some of his signings, I think we can all agree, have been questionable.

:rofl: that tickled me. Cos he wears glasses. If you saw me you'd think i was thick as the come. maybe i am.

I wonder if you think Stephen Hawking is as intelligent as he looks??!?

 

[SpursManChris]

:rofl: that tickled me. Cos he wears glasses. If you saw me you'd think i was thick as the come. maybe i am.

I wonder if you think Stephen Hawking is as intelligent as he looks??!?

LOL, I can see why you found it funny. It was really an error on my part. What I should have said is "If Comolli was as intellegent as he comes accross" when I've seen him in interviews and stuff. The things he says, you can tell he has a good idea about the footballing world. I didn't mean based on his looks, with his glasses and all.

 

[Spursking]

Our progress from where to where exactly?

He is the main man behind our 5th place finishes, but we can also thank Arnesen and Levy for their good work aswell. Comolli has continued to build this team, and even we have started bad this season, we are still in progress, because we have a great team. Comolli has given us a great young team with talented players to build around. I get a bit angry when people do not appreciate his work, because if we had continued to build teams like we did in the previous years, we had seen no progress. We have done so many errors in the past, and Levy also has seen that, and he changed it all and brought in quality people to develop the Club. He has managed to get it right. We are still in a progression, and many things has to be in place, but the case is that we have a future team to build around, and a team that also can challenge with the best. We are in a bad position now, but in the future we will not be in a bad position, because of the development and expertise by Comolli, but also the the economic side with Levy, the coaching by Ramos and the management team.

We are in good hands for the future, and I am looking forward to getting a new academy, a new developed stadium and facilities for a top International Football Club. Exciting times ahead at THFC.

 

[alpha]

If you do not, you have to think about changeing your opinion. He is the main man behind our progress.

Strong statement - on the basis of what exactly?

 

[alpha]

He is the main man behind our 5th place finishes, but we can also thank Arnesen and Levy for their good work aswell. Comolli has continued to build this team, and even we have started bad this season, we are still in progress, because we have a great team. Comolli has given us a great young team with talented players to build around. I get a bit angry when people do not appreciate his work, because if we had continued to build teams like we did in the previous years, we had seen no progress. We have done so many errors in the past, and Levy also has seen that, and he changed it all and brought in quality people to develop the Club. He has managed to get it right. We are still in a progression, and many things has to be in place, but the case is that we have a future team to build around, and a team that also can challenge with the best. We are in a bad position now, but in the future we will not be in a bad position, because of the development and expertise by Comolli, but also the the economic side with Levy, the coaching by Ramos and the management team.

We are in good hands for the future, and I am looking forward to getting a new academy, a new developed stadium and facilities for a top International Football Club. Exciting times ahead at THFC.

What has he done to warrent this accolade? Has not the development prior to Commoli's appointment been far more instrumental in Spurs' recent success.

To be fair I don't think we've really had a chance to see any what may yield from Commoli's appointement. But I wouldnt attribute the last 2 years finishes to Commoli and him being the main man behind this - more Jol/Arneson and Levy.

Sounds like your very pro Commoli. Perhaps becuase of signings like Zokora who you appear to highly rate whom has been very average.

 

[tRiKS]

LOL, I can see why you found it funny. It was really an error on my part. What I should have said is "If Comolli was as intellegent as he comes accross" when I've seen him in interviews and stuff. The things he says, you can tell he has a good idea about the footballing world. I didn't mean based on his looks, with his glasses and all.

 

[SpurSince57]

He is the main man behind our 5th place finishes.

What, precisely, did he contribute to our fifth place in 2005-2006? Murphy?

 

[joey55]

i'm very convinced Ramos is Commolis man. The altreantive to that view doesn't bare thinking about Joey. the idea that the cultural overseer of tottenahsm hotspur FC (not PLC) didn't chose the coach would make us the worst bunch of cocks on planet earth. Levy isn't that dumb. ... Commolis fluent Spainish in the press conference also backs up my view it think.

Comolli's grasp of Spannish has absolutely nothing to do with it. You say Levy isn't that dumb, but he appoionted Santinni when Arnesen wanted Jol. Also watch Seville play and the types of players at the core of that squad and compare them to the players Comolli has brought to the club and the players he brought to St Ettienne. They are very different group of players. Has there ever been an example of a Director of Football and a head coach from different football cultures working together successfully? Surely if Comolli really had a free reign to choose, he'd go for a coach that he knows likes to work with the exact type of players he recruits, has winning experience (league title's, not cups), has taken smaller clubs into the CL and has a proven track record of improving the defence. Claude Puel and Eli Baup both fit the bill perfectly. But their names mean nothing and neither would appeal to Levy even 10% as much as Juande Ramos. Ramos has one of the best reputations in Europe and by recruiting him it really sends out a message.

I'm not saying Comolli was against the recruitment of Ramos, but that he wouldn't have been his ideal choice. Reputation and image would mean nothing to Comolli when choosing his man, but it would mean a lot to Levy, as he has shown in the past. I'd imagine a few names were spoken about and whilst Comolli supported the recruitment of Ramos, there would have been other names on the table that would have appealed to him more and seemed more suitable, but weren't the type of names the board were looking for.

Whenever a new coach comes into a Prem club, the media tell us all about him and what great things he's done. Santini was creditted with starting the whole Lyon revival, Jol was twice Dutch coach of the year etc and Ramos is a winner who plays attacking football and gets the best out of players. But on closer inspection he isn't particuarly suited to the job. Just very simple things have been largelly ignored, such as the type of players Ramos likes to use, or the fact that our key problem is conceding goals and in 5 of his last 6 clubs the deffensive record has got worse under him. The media wont look at these sort of things, but an intelligent guy like Comolli would be very aware of them. So whilst Ramos has many plus points, he also will have areas that are of a concern to Comolli, when there were coaches available that would have ticked all the boxes form his point of view, but not Enics.

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

But we're used to calling them 'managers', so 'managers' is what we continue to call them. The whole system is very blurred.

You're right. The system is very blurred. But I've given my views before on the Jol situation and how I believe it arose entirely from the blurring of Jol's and Comolli's responsibilities, by Levy panicking after Arnesen left.
I predicted before Ramos's arrival that we would not be getting a new Manager to replace Jol, but a "Head Coach", because this would be part of an effort to provide a clear distinction between the Coach's role and that of the Sporting Director. That has happened.
Furthermore, the press conference earlier this week , I view in the same light. To me, it was significant that Comolli was heading up the press conference rather than Levy, and it was in no way a result of Levy hiding. It was Comolli introducing his "new team". In my view he is now in the same position of power that Arnesen had, and there was no confusion at that time. Arnesen made it clear he was in charge of all football matters. Sooner or later I believe we will all be left in no doubt that the Arnesen structure now applies again. The Club is currently covering its tracks and hiding its errors in my view. We will then be back to the true Sporting Director/Head Coach structure that Levy initially set up.

In the meantime, though I take your point that there is confusion over terms, I believe that the wilful use of incorrect terms adds to the confusion. As far as Tottenham is concerned, we do not have a Manager, we have a Head Coach. We do not have a DOF we have a Sporting Director. The distinctions are important because they reflect differences in the operations of the football side of the Club from most other Premiership clubs, and in order to debate the rights and wrongs of those differences, the first requirement is to understand them, and then to use correct differentiated terms to describe them.

Having said that, the Club is hardly being helpful. For example, if you look up "Club Directors" on the Official Website, you get the Plc Directors: no mention of Donna-Maria Cullen, Paul Barber or Damien Comolli. Whereas if you look up the Club Directors in the Official Programme those three are all included, and the addition of Damien Comolli on the Club Board this season, having been shown below Martin Jol in the hierarchy for the previous two seasons, was a reflection, as I see it, of the change in their relative positions of power within the Club, which culminated in Jol being ousted after his position had been progressively undermined.

 

[Kendall]

Martin Jol was head coach

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

Martin Jol was head coach

And then he was promoted to Manager. This is not up for debate. It is a verifiable fact. Look at Official programmes and Handbooks.