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Comparing the Premiership to other leagues and taking advantage of its limitations

chileanspursfan

New Member
Aug 10, 2006
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Every weekend for the past 7 or more years I have faced the same dilemma: which European league match am I going to watch (at extravagant hours) tonight? (considering I have been living in South and North America as well as in Australia.

The choice is easy for me, I'd rather watch Blackburn against Wigan (which I did as a matter of fact a couple of weekends ago) than Barcelona vs Villarreal or Inter vs Roma.

The Premier League provides endless and continual exciting actions, with a fast paced style of play which is significantly more offensive and open than the other "top" European leagues. It is true that the Premiership is the most visually appealing football in the world, but I cannot find direct relation between that and being considered the "best" league in the planet, as some pundits claim nowadays.

Being as objective as I can, my impression is that the game is exciting and full of actions and goals only because:

1. The pitches are generally smaller.
2. The defenses are very poor.
3. After running as sprinter for over an hour and a half, your concentration and physical accuracy drop down dramatically.

I won't get into any boring and pointless insight of these points, I'd rather try to get something positive for us out of it. I remember in 1998 a pre world cup match at Wembley between my national squad of Chile against England, 2-0 the outcome for us. I remember Marcelo Salas giving the unmentionable Judas the worst night of his career, when he was supposedly at his prime and being one of the best center backs in England of his time. He looked amateurish, just like Dawson against Newcastle, Christopher Samba against the not-so-flamboyant Emile Heskey in the mentioned match at Ewood Park, Titus Bramble basically always, the entire Arsenal back 4 a week ago against Chelsea, the Liverpool back 4 against Man Utd, well, I could go for ever and every defense in the Premiership, Man Utd as the only exception, would have been seriously exposed during the course of the current season.

A half decent player with some effective tricks and good control of the ball will make any Premiership defender dance a rhythm which will prove lethal for his waist. That's why Cristiano Ronaldo looks like the best player in the history of the game. Take him to Italy and his goal tally drops to a quarter. The defenders in the Premier League generally wait for the offensive player to make his move rather than intercepting him before he gains control of the ball and starts a dribble. (I think Ledley King is one of the few who doesn't and even if he does he has an impeccable tackling ability, and this has been identified and recognized even by rivals such as Henry. ) Aaron Lennon wouldn't be a hot prospect anywhere else around Europe (take Odonkor's example at Betis).

I'll put it short: let's get a proven talent instead of wasting our money and patience in the likes of KPB or Taarabt. I assure everyone in this forum that if we get someone like Ronaldinho or Riquelme we would be so threatening up front that the rival teams would have to reconsider all their offensive strategies in order to protect their own goal. Of course these players are almost certainly out of our reach, so let's get a similar proven talent emerging from some South American league. There are hundreds and just check how underrated names such as Santa Cruz, Solano, De la Cruz, Angel ended up transferred for affordable fees to mid-table teams.

I'll get chauvinist in this one, but if we buy Jorge Valdivia and Alexis Sanchez from Palmeiras and River Plate (on loan from Udinese) for next season we would have such an immense offensive power that it would take a lot of pressure out of our over worried back 4. Even more, that burden would go straight onto our opponent's goalkeepers, centerbacks and specially on the wing backs which will have too much to worry at their end to rally freely up front.

This is one area of the game I am sure Juande will improve for next season and where he will show what an influential import he will become. He has seen these kind of players in Spain and knows that he has no one like that in his current squad to make us top 4 material.

Sorry about the extension (and bias) of the post, but there was an annoying welcoming message telling me to "Post some more!" and a "Ronny Rosenthal" under my nickname which was driving me insane. And I just want us to be the best team in the world, you know, just that...
 

llamafarmer

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2004
10,775
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A few issues:

I believe we have the most exciting league in the world (as you seem to agree), but perhaps not always technically the best. However, we have all 4 English teams still in the last 8 of the Champions League and that's hard to argue with. English teams are beginnning to dominate Europe. How our non CL teams compare to those in Spain and Italy, I can't say from my own experience.

We can't sign the best talents at Spurs because we can't offer CL footy and unfortunately that's what it comes down to. We may well lose our best player to United and we won't compete with teams like that even if we did bid for Ronaldinho.

Henry hasn't exactly set the world alight in Barca but was awesome in the PL, but at the same time Shevchenko has gone from being a god at Milan to looking distinctly average in the PL.

I don't know the answers, but it isn't black and white. And the performance of the England team is irrelevant to the quality of the PL.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,723
16,853
Excellent post. I agree with many of your points.

Although English teams are doing well in the CL, the quality of defending is still a bit poor in the premier league, as is the way the midfield play, too much end-to-end style of play and so midfields and defenses get stretched much more easily than in other leagues.
 

BorisTM

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2007
1,434
310
chileanspursfan, whats the reason for the Premiership having 4 1/4 finalists in Champions league? It must be the defenders.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
Sid Lowe's take:

Worryingly for the Spanish people, it seems likely that the closest the nation is going to get to this season's Champions League final is if the referee is appointed from the Iberian peninsula, as happened when Liverpool faced Milan in Istanbul.As Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal embark on their quarter-finals tonight and tomorrow, Real Madrid, Valencia and Sevilla will be forced to watch on television. Barcelona alone are involved and they are undergoing a crisis so profound that what was initially seen as an easy tie against Schalke is suddenly being approached with trepidation.

But if the recent Champions League exits of Real Madrid and Sevilla hurt, the dismal showing of Spanish sides in the Uefa Cup somehow cuts even deeper in terms of national pride. It is all well and good having three or four behemoths - clubs with massive budgets and star names - going a long way in Europe's top competition, but the second-tier tournament is the real barometer of a country's strength in depth.
That was, at least, what the Spanish insisted last season, when the earlier departures of Real Madrid and Barcelona from the Champions League found compensation in the huge success of their clubs in the Uefa Cup, where three of the four semi-finalists were from La Liga, with Espanyol facing Sevilla at Hampden Park in the final.
This season there have been no such crumbs of comfort, no Uefa Cup success with which to paper over the cracks. Although Bolton, Everton and Tottenham only lasted one more round, that was little consolation to the Spanish, now left with only Getafe as survivors. Rather than comfort, instead there has been a recognition that something is rotten in the state of Spain, with one newspaper declaring that the time has come to "sound the alarm". The self-declared "league of stars", the greatest in the world, is in the midst of a dark age.
Real Madrid lead La Liga by a six-point margin, yet have lost five of their last nine games; they have, in fact, lost more than half of their games since the turn of the year. That could be taken as a sign of competitiveness, an indication that every club in Spain has something to offer, that every side can win on their day - proof the league is strong all the way down: certainly no strolls against Derby County.
The past decade suggests a league with more variety, a greater depth of competition than in England, where the same four clubs dominate the Champions League places season after season. While Barça and Madrid are still pre-eminent, as they have been for the best part of 50 years, Valencia and Deportivo La Coruña have each won the league in the past decade, Sevilla went into the final day of last season still in with a chance, and Celta Vigo, Betis, Real Sociedad, Mallorca, Osasuna and Zaragoza have all finished in the top four. This season Racing Santander and Atlético Madrid could yet do so too.
But few in Spain believe that is the case any more. That Real Madrid command such a lead in La Liga and yet capitulated in the Champions League tells them as much, and it has been confirmed by the fact that they have now gone out at the first knockout stage, after easy groups, in each of the past four years.
When Roma defeated Bernd Schuster's side at the Bernabéu, one headline declared: "Europe demands more" and another: "Too mediocre for Europe." "What used to be the league of stars," ran a lament in El Mundo, "is now losing ground to other leagues - and not just the Premier League, which is light years ahead in terms of economic power, attractive football and a level of competitiveness." A columnist in the sports daily As wrote: "We have been satisfied with our domestic experience but the rest of Europe, England in particular, travels at a different speed."
In fact, the Spanish have not actually been that satisfied with their domestic experience. La Liga has been fairly turgid over the past two years. As the former Real player Martín Vázquez put it in the first half of last term: "The thing about Madrid games is that nothing happens. Nothing at all."
Since the start of 2008, Madrid's early season form is long forgotten, Barça are plummeting into crisis, Valencia are a caricature of a club and Sevilla have been unable to recover properly from the death of Antonio Puerta or Juande Ramos's departure to Tottenham.
Racing Santander are fifth and on course for their best-ever finish, but even delighted Racing fans know that if their team is riding so high there must be something wrong with the rest. As a former Spain coach, Javier Clemente, puts it: "Madrid and Barça don't offer a thing." And a pessimistic editorial adds: "There's too much bad football and not enough good results, and that's the perfect recipe for Spanish football to die a death."

http://football.guardian.co.uk/continentalfootball/story/0,,2269884,00.html
 

chileanspursfan

New Member
Aug 10, 2006
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It's very true that this year's UCL features heaps of English teams and that in the past couple of versions there have been Premier League teams either winning it or in final instances. It is very true as well that the Premiership teams are getting better in Europe as Man Utd showed today against Roma (although I remember Leeds doing the same trick at Lazio and look at them now). I attribute this mainly to the fact of some very good international imports, both players and managers, more than an impressive performance by the local talents (a couple of players like Gerrard as exception) or that this flash paced end to end 442 style of play has proven to be superior.

For the money invested in the Premier League as a show business, these results are compulsory and should even improve in the future, whereas for the English national squad, not even the best coach in the world and the best facilities available will take it to the top of the FIFA ranks or to win a World Cup, in the short-medium term at least.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
But we're talking about entirely different things here. The English national side is an irrelevance, and, frankly, I rarely bother to watch internationals any more—the overall standard has dropped markedly over the last ten years or so.
 

Defsta

Banned
Aug 4, 2003
23,455
6
But we're talking about entirely different things here. The English national side is an irrelevance, and, frankly, I rarely bother to watch internationals any more—the overall standard has dropped markedly over the last ten years or so.

Seconded


I can't even understand why people are comparing English national team's success to quality of Premier league as those are totally different things. If I would do same thing with Finnish national team and finnish premier division, then I wouldn't even expect them to win herd of lame goats.
 

paul_1979yid

Mr Tumble
Dec 1, 2006
3,376
2
If every player in the prem league was English and we had 4 teams in quaters of Champs league but the national team was still **** then i think we could ask questions. But as it is, SS57 is right.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
And really, watching Carrick, Scholes and Hargreaves last night, that's an all-English (okay, Hargreaves could also be Canadian) midfield that stands comparison with any in the world. That's before you get to Rio and Rooney, and if Brown isn't in that league he's still very solid.

Our English spine isn't in the same class; nevertheless, the best team in Holland didn't dare try to take us on in an open game, home and away. Let's not forget we might easily have beaten Sevilla last year, too. Bolton held Bayern quite comfortably, beat Atleti and might have beaten Sporting as well if that twat Megson hadn't decided to play his Under-18s. Whatever you think of Bolton's style of football, that's a pretty good achievement for a club that's looking one of the favourites for the drop.

I haven't watched much Spanish football this season but what I have seen hasn't impressed me too much. Atleti v. Sevilla the other week was a pretty pisspoor affair, and like Lowe says, Real have been bloody awful since Christmas. So have Barca. And if their own papers are saying La Liga's going to shit and the EPL is better, who am I to argue?
 
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