Credibility - Is Levy's Stock Rising?

[Bill_Oddie]

If Levy was there so was I.

This event gets more dramatic everytime we turn our backs. Within a few weeks, we'll find out that Kemsley left the meeting with Madeleine McCann shoved in his suitcase and Juande Ramos admitted it was him who killed Princess Diana under orders from Mi5. He's a secret agent you see. And Paul Kelmsley is like 'M'. I think Commolli is 'Q'. :|


Blatantly Ramos was being wooed for 'future' purposes. Those were not relevant in the summer, and I understand we'd met him at least 3 times before. Big shakes.

It is entirely possible, nay probable that the meeting took place and an offer was tentatively discussed for NEXT summer. Now that would be the forward planning SS57 was talking about. And frankly I don't see how any of us could be disappointed with a meeting where that was the agenda. Best case scenario - we've made a useful contact, but BMJ continues the good work and he keeps his job; worst case, BMJ does badly, gets the boot and we've got a good replacement lined up without the need for a caretaker dicking us over for a few months.

Not rocket science is it? And Chelsea did exactly the same thing with Klinnsmann last season, but that wasn't caught and only released in the papers last week under a totally unrelated story. :roll:

 

[SpurSince57]

If Levy was there so was I.

This event gets more dramatic everytime we turn our backs. Within a few weeks, we'll find out that Kemsley left the meeting with Madeleine McCann shoved in his suitcase and Juande Ramos admitted it was him who killed Princess Diana under orders from Mi5. He's a secret agent you see. And Paul Kelmsley is like 'M'. I think Commolli is 'Q'. :|


Blatantly Ramos was being wooed for 'future' purposes. Those were not relevant in the summer, and I understand we'd met him at least 3 times before. Big shakes.

It is entirely possible, nay probable that the meeting took place and an offer was tentatively discussed for NEXT summer. Now that would be the forward planning SS57 was talking about. And frankly I don't see how any of us could be disappointed with a meeting where that was the agenda. Best case scenario - we've made a useful contact, but BMJ continues the good work and he keeps his job; worst case, BMJ does badly, gets the boot and we've got a good replacement lined up without the need for a caretaker dicking us over for a few months.

Not rocket science is it? And Chelsea did exactly the same thing with Klinnsmann last season, but that wasn't caught and only released in the papers last week under a totally unrelated story. :roll:

Well, it would be wonderful to think that, Bill, but it would stretch my credulity almost to the same extent as the possibility of my being simultaneously swarmed over by Angelina Jolie, Zhang Ziyi and Susan Sarandon, or declared Tsar of All the Russias.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Still, makes more sense than they were about to sack Jol on the spot, which is how it was reported.

The word that there were 2 previous meetings with Ramos was largely ignored. I guess one would have been when we played in Spain, but the timing of the other one might shed some illumination on the board's motivation.

 

[rez9000]

All we know is that Paul 'the power' Kemsley and Alexander bungled the meeting. Maybe purposely. We already know PK isn't a fan of Jol. I haven't seen one shred of evidence, not even a line from a rag (if someone can point me to a respectable source, it'd be appreciated), to suggest that Levy and Comolli were in Spain too. Maybe i've been out of the loop, though.

Which reflects badly on the upper management of the club, yes? And the rule of business is that the head bod is ultimately accountable for his subordinates' behaviour. Again, it's not the actions of Levy that I'm concerned about here. It's how he's perceived by Spurs fans that interests me.

I was gravely disappointed when the Seville story broke and it shook the faith that had been engendered in me by Levy's previous behaviour. His presence at or absence from the meeting in Seville is irrelevent for me (I doubt it was done without his knowledge though). What is relevent to this thread is seeing how others on SC felt when it happened and how they feel about Mr Levy now. As I said earlier, I'm less inclined to be cynical about any statements from the club because his stated support for the manager seems to be bearing up.

And suggestions that Levy & Comolli and Kemsley & Alexander paired off into two-man fire teams, one of which managed to evade detection, is a bit far-fetched for me. I'd rather take what we know at face value. PK and Alexander were caught meeting Ramos. Of course there'll be rumours following that, that Levy and Comolli were in fact there too. You know, might add a bit of punch to the story. Funny that they, the two more prominent people at the club, weren't initially reported to have been there, but were later 'found out' to have been there. Yeah, they snuck out a side exit, while the well-disguised Mr Potato Head waltzed out of the front entrance, just "'cos none of these 'ere Spammish peepull know who i am". They either all went out of a side exit or none of them did. Besides, i'm the sure the paparazzi would have had the place pretty well surrounded. Then again, it's not like they're used to celebs sneaking out of side-exits or anything crazy like that.

I don't believe I stated that I thought that Levy was there.

I have no problem with the meeting taking place for whatever reason. We can't just say "why at that moment in time, Levy" as if there's no conceivable reason for it to have taken place at the time. We don't know. And a legitimate reason is no less a likely possibility as the all too easy "it was a knee-jerk reaction from a bunch of cowboys". I do have a problem with the fact that the press got wind of it and kindly returned some fecal matter hastily tagged "Spurs Board" to WHL. We all do. Whether it was Ramos' side to blame, our side or a bit of both. Seeing that i personally don't believe Levy was there to oversee it, i can't fault him for the way in which it panned out. Only that he entrusted such an operation to Mr Discreet.

That's what I'm talking about. Has his entrusting the job to Kemsley, or his pique at the Standard or anything like that changed your opinion of him? What did you think of him before this hoo-ha started and what do you think of him now? DId you feel he was trustworthy before and has just been stupid or was he always untrustworthy?

 

[bogosian]

charm not skill????

5th place two seasons in a row?

no, you're right i guess

as i said he's an ok manager but definately not top class. i said the fans like him because of his charm mainly. imagine roeder if he had brought us 2 5h places now - he wouldn't have the support of the majority of fans.

Many would agree in principle. However, the stats prove that a club that changes managers partway through a season finish on average four places below where they finished the season before.

that's why i said "long term". we might eventually be getting 5th places but we will not manage to reach top 4 with jol unless any of the top 4 clubs is in crisis (not the case this season) + there aren't any other contenders (not the case anymore with the likes of citeh & many more to come with plenty of millionaires eyeing the league). :shrug:

 

[Andy]

This past few days Kelmsley has been linked with buying us out,
Would i be right in thinking that maybe he himself was acting on his own behalf?
I mean when he went to spain and met Ramos was there a possibility that he was there to secure the services of his manager once he had bought the club,
Isn't that how things go in most spanish football clubs?The new guy comes in and announces who is coming in and who is leaving.
Tbh i think Levy has done a great job taking over from where Alan Sugar left off(who did a good job for us over the years) and i also think Jol is a clever (PR) guy and knows a large percentage of the fans support him and he plays up to it and says what the fans want to hear,
I think Jol will be gone if we finish anywhere below sixth (depending on a cup win)

 

[orkneyspur]

Can't disagree with most of that Andy. I think Levy has done a good job, his 'stock' never fell so far as I'm concerned.
Business is shitty. Making management decisions that upset the 'staff' is par for the course nowadays.

 

[spurs4europe]

as i said he's an ok manager but definately not top class. i said the fans like him because of his charm mainly. imagine roeder if he had brought us 2 5h places now - he wouldn't have the support of the majority of fans.

no i don't agree at all. it is certainly endearing to have a charismatic manager, but if roeder managed here (god forbid!) he would certainly be well supported if he achieved the same.

however, how about the fact that he genuinely loves spurs and wants to do well with us. and most importantly, has us playing the best football in the league after only l'arse.

there are countless managers who are just as admired as mj, and not nearly half as charismatic. instead of just saying they are more skilled (wenger, benitez), which i disagree with anyway, think about the football we play under him, how it fits in with our heritage, etc.

yes right now, it's not ideal, no-one has said so, but as far as the football is concerned, we are still attacking and often bossing games with the same verve as last season, and THAT is why we all love MJ.

the results will come, surely you can see that?

 

[Tottenham_OZpur]

Never dropped with me. The bloke has rebuilt this club and put some pride back into what was, frankly, a laughing stock. We were the club everyone enjoyed knocking and having a giggle at. "they think they're bigger than they are" "they're living in the past" Years of shit players mixed in with the odd flawed star.

So they tried to get us a better manager. Boo fucking hoo. Get over it. What levy has achieved has been massive.

he has been brave and inovative. His policies have seen us playing the best football for 20+ years, whilst making us more financially viable than ever. To achieve thesse twin goals whilst still spending more than any other chairman, without the private backing of a billionaire's slush fund is boardering on a miracle.

Any of you lot that would chose Jol over Levy are fucking loonies.

yep, how I see it too, if I had to chose between them or who I am more loyal to :wink:

Levy has got us running well, got great sponsor deals, provided plenty of money for improving the squad and I have no problem with him wanting to get a better manager if he could.
Saying that, could have been better timing like before the season started or giving Jol until the end of this season which he does deserve. If we don't get in europe by league position or winning a cup, then by all means replace Jol as it would no doubt be a total failure with the squad and money spent.

( actually as this is a real possibility this season and we MUST get in Europe again, we SHOULD enter the intertoto cup if the worst should happen, heck it may actually be a good thing playing some competative games earlier, with our poor starts and all, CANT BE ANY WORSE )

Jol has done a good job so should take some credit not just Levy, but with the 5th best squad it is par and where we should have finished if we are all honest.

Though I am happy with 5th and would never complain about that, in no way I see it as a 'special' achievement though, successful more accurate. Now if we were to win either the FA or UEFA Cup or break into the top 4, that would truly be 'special' :wink:

 

[bogosian]

spurs4europe, it's obvious that we have different opinions on the qualities and potential of jol. i don't see him as a top 4 side manager at all.

comparing him to maurinho, sir red nose, benitez, wenger ... he's just not in that league at all. not to mention he has 1 win in 30 games against top 4 sides. not to mention the position we are in currently. not to mention his lack of experience & success. for me he's an ok midtable manager. just name me one top club in europe that would have him? none. we need exactly that kind of quality in order to have a quality shift here. as simple as that.

that's exactly what the board were thinking when went looking for a top manager. that's why i support them.

and on your last question - our season is ruined, no mickey mouse cup nor a mere good cup run will make us achieve our objectives. :shrug:

 

[knilly]

with recent reports about kelmsley buying the club, it adds weight to the notion that he was acting on his own behalf.

other than that i believe they were sounding out a replacement for jol as his 'stock had risen' with the two 5th place finishes.

as with keano putting the ball in the net at the moment, i believe long term appointments breed success. i hope this is also the case with jol

 

[Chris12345]

Since then we've had the rumours of phone calls to Mourinho, a more positive statement of support for Jol, rumours that Puel will be appointed caretaker until May, keeping the hot seat warm for Jose, and a string of disappointing results. Ironically, Sevilla have also had a pisspoor start to the season: four league defeats in six games, thrashings by Milan and Arsenal, and just a win over Slavia which was, judging from the highlights, much harder work than the score suggests. They have had their own problems, and to suggest Ramos has lost the plot any more than Jol has are ridiculous. Nevertheless, it's hard to suppress a chuckle.

Could this possibly have something to do with a team member dying very suddenly (from a heart attack iirc?) at the beginning of the seasons?

 

[SpurSince57]

Our season is ruined? Says who?

Would Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez and Fergie have done a better job than Jol over the past three seasons, from the same starting point, with the same players and resources? I don't think anyone can say that they would or would not have, the same way that no-one can give a categorical assurance that Ramos will be an improvement. No-one actually knows the real reason the board tried to tap up Ramos; we're assuming they suddenly decided sometime in June or July, or even August, that he wasn't the man to take us further forward, yet there hadn't been the slightest hint of dissatisfaction before that. It could as easily be a result of the kind of power-struggle that took place at Chelsea, because there have been persistent rumours that Jol and Comolli don't quite see eye to eye for over a year now.

 

[SpurSince57]

Could this possibly have something to do with a team member dying very suddenly (from a heart attack iirc?) at the beginning of the seasons?

It could indeed be a lot to do with that, as I implied when I said they've had their own problems. It's still pretty ironic, though.

 

[lennon4england]

for me he's an ok midtable manager. just name me one top club in europe that would have him? none.

Ajax :shrug:

 

[bogosian]

Ajax :shrug:

my, god - you are right!! jol is f*ing incredible!!! i am totally convinced now!

 

[Bromavinci]

the first page on this thread is some of the best stuff ive read on SC for a long while...good work lads!!

All i know is that Spurs need to string some wins together, league and cups, and get us all talking about the football again!!

 

[DFF]

I don't believe I stated that I thought that Levy was there.

I wasn't really replying to you. I was replying at you, if that makes sense. No offence. I just went where my post took me. Probably would have been more relevant to quote Banjo or someone.

Anyway, my high regard for Levy hasn't changed a jot. Like i said, my only reservation is that he put too much faith in PK. Still, nobody's perfect. Especially PL chairmen. And as far as they go, i think we're quite well off.

 

[PT]

Just to offer up a reasonably acceptable comparison to Jol's current stock in the Football world.

When he came to Spurs, hardly anyone had heard of him and fewer still would have put money on BMJ being our head coach.

If you take a trip up the line to enemy territory back in the day when GG was sacked for taking a personal interest in unmarked brown envelopes, a similarly unkown was introduced to the rank and file - his name was Arsene Wenger...

 

[Banjo]

:hello:

OK DFF and others.

Re Levy and Comolli's presence at 'Ramosgate' I've found two sources - or at least one repeating itself.

David Hytner in the Guardian dated August 27th:-

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2156953,00.html

and again on September 17th:-

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2170680,00.html

On each occasion their presence is stated as fact. While this does not make it absolutely gospel I've not seen the club rushing to deny the claim!

Either way we seem to be left with a hypothetical event over the summer that soured relations. No one seems to know what this is, it's just a suggestion put forward to try and explain subsequent bizarre events. If it were true, and the board had really lost faith in Jol, they should have sacked him in the off season.

The other explanation we seem to be left with is that after two poor results the board did panic and tried (and failed) to get Ramos. Given the cak handed way they went about this I can well believe that they lost their nerve after two games.

And 'yes', I agree it is terrifying!mg: