Deflated

[THFCSPURS19]

No it didn't.

@Spurger King - Everyone knows we progressed as a team defensively and offensively, and many individual players improved as well. The end of the season did not change this.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Yes, I agree. Failing to finish above the scum was a bit irritating.

'A bit'.....? With the dust finally settling from last season

And that's all it was. Poch was absolutely right when he said finishing above/below them only matters if one of us is first and the other second.

To me, what happened is obvious - we thought we had a serious shot at the title after the United and Stoke performances but then Leicester had the opportunity to play before us for the 57th week in a row and absolutely annihilated Swansea, at which point it was realistically over. Even so, we performed plenty well enough against West Brom to batter them, but contrived to hit the woodwork 3 times before they were even in the game (one of these being a bloody ridiculous save, if I remember rightly). It was't the 'pressure' that got to us in the end, it was the extinguishing of hope that came from Leicester being absolutely relentless (and our inability to ever put them under any serious pressure due to forever playing after them). The players (and management) put so much into the title challenge that once it was gone they had nothing left to give. A mark of youth/inexperience? Absolutely. Something to hold against them and a sign of "mental fragility"? Absolutely not.

We had 3 chances, WHU/AFC/LFC, to put real pressure on Leicester but failed to do so every time. iI'll go further and say that when it really mattered we bottled it. No point bitching at the fixture list, you have to take care of your own business and we failed to do so. Our end of the season collapse was nothing short of disgraceful and has 100% proved correct of what everyone else thinks of us, legends! We had a chance to get that monkey off our back, and I'll add the CFC away monkey too, but reverted back to our bottling best.... .

 

[guate]

Yesterday I had to pay $100 to the only arsenal supporting friend I have over here in Guatewhereveritis. Man did it hurt as I was sure that for the first time in 5 years of betting with him it would be my turn to get money back. Folklore, we move on.
I also believe the last 4 games showed that we simply don't have the strength in depth nor the passion and ability required from those outside the first XI. Consequently, and so as not to mount a poor Champions League challenge, our bean counter and Mauricio must make the necessary purchases during this transfer window to ensure we have a strong enough squad to cover next season with the Premiership, local cups and more importantly the Champions league.
I am also worried that if we do not invest in the right players come this new season, when moving to Wembley a year later our "home" games will be affected simply because of the aura and size of the place.

 

[guiltyparty]

And destroyed any sense of progression and a desperately needed change of mental fortitude. Great

Sugar-coat it as much as you like, it ended a largely positive season on a bum note.

Exactly. This is such a stupid argument. "It was a blessing in disguise" - what utter balls. If we'd finished 2nd, there wouldn't have been cracks to paper over. The cracks were pretty much all in the last 4 games.

It's the appearance of said cracks that is what's so deflating. We thought we were past that, we aren't. That's fine, we're not as far ahead in our development as many hoped, but it's quite understandable to be deflated temporarily.

You shift your expectations as a season progresses. So because Leicester nearly got relegated last season, you think they'd be happy if they'd collapsed, lost their last however many games and finished 7th? Of course they wouldn't, but that would still have been their best Premier League season ever. Cheer up guys etc.

The mature and sensible will look at the longer term and see we're in a good place, with so much to look forward to, having had a season that was largely very enjoyable and played some great stuff. But a post-season hump fuelled by our expectations being raised is perfectly reasonable in my eyes as long as it doesn't cloud that bigger picture

 

[Mr Pink]

The bigger picture is the progression we've seen under Pochettino, without doubt the most important thing we're talking about here.

Nothing wrong with some still expressing deflation over the way we finished though, it was a really limp way to finish after such a good season overall.

All this get over it bolliox, don't think anyone literally can't get over it lol, but it should be acknowledged that the effort ;levels weren't good enough at the end - that was glaringly obvious.

Pochettino certainly won't be endorsing the get over it attitude, you can guarantee it.

 

[Shadydan]

The banter doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't even live in the UK, so don't even have to see much of it.

What bothers me is that this team thought they were above the culture of failure, were something new, but ultimately collapsed when it counted. Now, as this young team continues to grow together, that seed of doubt will always remain, no matter what. It is a persistence of the weakness when we were handed such a remarkable opportunity to overcome it which bothers me, not the worthless banter.

I'm not really having this, people say that we collapsed when it mattered but that's not true because we were never expected to challenge for the title, there were far more games this sesosn where we would have predictably collapsed in the past but we didn't so why is there all the focus on the last few matches? If you're going to make a point about our mentality you can't be selective, for every Newcastle 5-1 and Southampton 1-2 there is a Man City 2-1 and a United 3-0 plus there's plenty more results in our favour to suggest that it's the exception that the norm.

But annoyingly people still want to attach Spursy to this side as if we are always destined for failure. Last season we worked on our mentality but it's still a work in progress which we will no doubt improve over time. Letting it slip like they in the last few games can't be excused but it can be explained and I'd put a lot of that down to the players being emotionally drained from the title challenging exerts and also missing two of our best players was massive...that would affect the best teams let alone a team of youngsters.

 

[DaSpurs]

I'm not really having this, people say that we collapsed when it mattered but that's not true because we were never expected to challenge for the title, there were far more games this sesosn where we would have predictably collapsed in the past but we didn't so why is there all the focus on the last few matches? If you're going to make a point about our mentality you can't be selective, for every Newcastle 5-1 and Southampton 1-2 there is a Man City 2-1 and a United 3-0 plus there's plenty more results in our favour to suggest that it's the exception that the norm.

But annoyingly people still want to attach Spursy to this side as if we are always destined for failure. Last season we worked on our mentality but it's still a work in progress which we will no doubt improve over time. Letting it slip like they in the last few games can't be excused but it can be explained and I'd put a lot of that down to the players being emotionally drained from the title challenging exerts and also missing two of our best players was massive...that would affect the best teams let alone a team of youngsters.

I'm not preoccupied with the title. We didn't have a legitimate chance at that for a couple months prior to the end.

What I'm concerned about is that the players saw Arse on their heels, and ultimately collapsed despite all the talk about a new mentality and core. The focus is on the final matches because they're included in what it takes to see something through to the finish line, in anything we do in life. If you don't see out the job at the end, you didn't fuckin finish the job, regardless of how well you might have performed earlier in the stretch. So it isn't at all about being selective, it's about not seeing out a goal to its finish and collapsing right at the brink. It's about the effects of the perpetuation of mental weakness which this will induce. You're right that there is potential to improve, but no matter what, that seed of doubt will always remain with this team until they actually see it through. People can make "the goal" out to be CL all they want, but they're kidding themselves if finishing above Arsenal isn't something significant in the players' minds every season at this club.

 

[guiltyparty]

I'm not really having this, people say that we collapsed when it mattered but that's not true because we were never expected to challenge for the title, there were far more games this sesosn where we would have predictably collapsed in the past but we didn't so why is there all the focus on the last few matches? If you're going to make a point about our mentality you can't be selective, for every Newcastle 5-1 and Southampton 1-2 there is a Man City 2-1 and a United 3-0 plus there's plenty more results in our favour to suggest that it's the exception that the norm.

But annoyingly people still want to attach Spursy to this side as if we are always destined for failure. Last season we worked on our mentality but it's still a work in progress which we will no doubt improve over time. Letting it slip like they in the last few games can't be excused but it can be explained and I'd put a lot of that down to the players being emotionally drained from the title challenging exerts and also missing two of our best players was massive...that would affect the best teams let alone a team of youngsters.

You've changed tack mid post. You say we didn't collapse... Then acknowledge that we did.

We hadn't failed to win for four games since the opening four games of the season, which was widely regarded to be a bad start to the season. We can dress that up anyway we want, but after so much progress, that we ended up like that can only be seen one way - a regression from where we'd got to, however understandable. It is what it is and the players visibly weren't up for it.

We needed 3 points from our last 4 games to stay ahead of Arsenal and we couldn't do it. Sorry but that's the nuts and bolts, yet people wanted to celebrate us losing our heads at Chelsea, which now seems even more ridiculous than it did at the time. We were 2-0 up and some on here wanted to hail slipping to 2-2 and having one of our best players suspended, as if Chelsea haven't been ordinary all season. We can't judge this season on the usual parameters.

There were 11 games between those City and Utd wins. The Soton/Newcastle games were back to back. Not sure how you can compare the two situations. The first is two random games, the latter is a downward trend. Unless you mean "we shouldn't rightly win the other ones" but we battered City earlier in the season, so don't see why that would now be surprising as we've been better than them all year.

I completely agree with all your reasoning for it, mind. And I'm psyched for next season/the summer/the stadium, think we'll only grow etc. I just don't think that means a bit of disappointment is unwarranted, while acknowledging the obvious progress, as we did fall away quite dramatically. I'd rather be honest about it and judge it against the new standards we set ourselves, rather than going "well, we've always been a bit like this, so what do you expect? Oh and we beat Man City!" That seems way more Spursy to me

 

[ohtottenham!]

Every fan of a top10 team, apart from a Leicester fan, would have done a critical post-mortem on their team's season or part of the season. I know it's been said a million times, but it really needs to sink in properly...Leicester City just won the title more than comfortably; and we provided their only threat to the title! Odds on that?

The game has changed! TV money equity, our rivals have coaching changes, or dissatisfaction with current coaches, ...this is next season.

We look good, hope to God we make the signings we need, and if we do, we can raise our expectations. We just did 3rd, and we were disappointed; we can do better, and we're well-placed to do it!

 

[Shadydan]

You've changed tack mid post. You say we didn't collapse... Then acknowledge that we did.

We hadn't failed to win for four games since the opening four games of the season, which was widely regarded to be a bad start to the season. We can dress that up anyway we want, but after so much progress, that we ended up like that can only be seen one way - a regression from where we'd got to, however understandable. It is what it is and the players visibly weren't up for it.

We needed 3 points from our last 4 games to stay ahead of Arsenal and we couldn't do it. Sorry but that's the nuts and bolts, yet people wanted to celebrate us losing our heads at Chelsea, which now seems even more ridiculous than it did at the time. We were 2-0 up and some on here wanted to hail slipping to 2-2 and having one of our best players suspended, as if Chelsea haven't been ordinary all season. We can't judge this season on the usual parameters.

There were 11 games between those City and Utd wins. The Soton/Newcastle games were back to back. Not sure how you can compare the two situations. The first is two random games, the latter is a downward trend. Unless you mean "we shouldn't rightly win the other ones" but we battered City earlier in the season, so don't see why that would now be surprising as we've been better than them all year.

I completely agree with all your reasoning for it, mind. And I'm psyched for next season/the summer/the stadium, think we'll only grow etc. I just don't think that means a bit of disappointment is unwarranted, while acknowledging the obvious progress, as we did fall away quite dramatically. I'd rather be honest about it and judge it against the new standards we set ourselves, rather than going "well, we've always been a bit like this, so what do you expect? Oh and we beat Man City!" That seems way more Spursy to me

No I didn't I said people are saying we collapsed when it mattered, I disagreed with that making references to other matches where we didn't collapse and show the typical Spurs mentality. If we had shown our typical mentality we wouldn't have finished where we are now and instead we'd bemoaning not finishing top four yet again. So the point of picking out those matches was to highlight our progression and that is the point - we've progressed more than regressed this season no matter how much people try and play down our season because of a couple of matches at the end of the season.

 

[Larryjanta]

Jesus Christ, so entitled. I could not be more over it and if some nasty names are deflating you then, well, you need to toughen up a little.

Euros will be a lovely distraction until next year when we'll be firig again.

Grow up

 

[dudu]

You've changed tack mid post. You say we didn't collapse... Then acknowledge that we did.

We hadn't failed to win for four games since the opening four games of the season, which was widely regarded to be a bad start to the season. We can dress that up anyway we want, but after so much progress, that we ended up like that can only be seen one way - a regression from where we'd got to, however understandable. It is what it is and the players visibly weren't up for it.

We needed 3 points from our last 4 games to stay ahead of Arsenal and we couldn't do it. Sorry but that's the nuts and bolts, yet people wanted to celebrate us losing our heads at Chelsea, which now seems even more ridiculous than it did at the time. We were 2-0 up and some on here wanted to hail slipping to 2-2 and having one of our best players suspended, as if Chelsea haven't been ordinary all season. We can't judge this season on the usual parameters.

There were 11 games between those City and Utd wins. The Soton/Newcastle games were back to back. Not sure how you can compare the two situations. The first is two random games, the latter is a downward trend. Unless you mean "we shouldn't rightly win the other ones" but we battered City earlier in the season, so don't see why that would now be surprising as we've been better than them all year.

I completely agree with all your reasoning for it, mind. And I'm psyched for next season/the summer/the stadium, think we'll only grow etc. I just don't think that means a bit of disappointment is unwarranted, while acknowledging the obvious progress, as we did fall away quite dramatically. I'd rather be honest about it and judge it against the new standards we set ourselves, rather than going "well, we've always been a bit like this, so what do you expect? Oh and we beat Man City!" That seems way more Spursy to me

This, while kind of true, completely ignores the multitude of points we had to gain to be in that position in the first place.

And no one is judging it on the usual parameters except you.

You're complaining because we didn't finish above arsenal and the players didnt look visibly up for finishing above Arsenal.

A lot of other people are judging the season on new parameters, trying not to get bogged down in the misery of losing 2nd place to a team who had been out of completions for long enough to be able to play with a relatively care free attitude.

A lot of people are seeing a bad patch for what it was, a bad patch, one that compared to most previous seasons was quite short and in literal terms lost us nothing as we were already out of all comps. We fell away "dramatically" one place in the table and missed out on winning a league we were never in a position to win.

 

[guiltyparty]

No I didn't I said people are saying we collapsed when it mattered, I disagreed with that making references to other matches where we didn't collapse and show the typical Spurs mentality. If we had shown our typical mentality we wouldn't have finished where we are now and instead we'd bemoaning not finishing top four yet again. So the point of picking out those matches was to highlight our progression and that is the point - we've progressed more than regressed this season no matter how much people try and play down our season because of a couple of matches at the end of the season.

Not trying to play down the season but I don't do denial.

They are two random isolated games, 11 games apart, that we did well in compared to two defeats in a row, off the back of two draws, our worst run for most of the season. I still don't get the comparison and how that's not a disappointing climax.

The City game was in February, with months left to play, and we'd already beaten them convincingly at the start of the season so a slight victory wasn't unforeseen. The poor run of form you compare it to was a horrendous battering to an already relegated side and a loss at home to a team we'd beaten convincingly away earlier in the season, which followed throwing a 2-0 lead the game before to a rival that had been mediocre all season and allowing two of our key players to be wound up and ruled out for the rest of the season, and at the arse end of things - when it matters, allowing Arsenal, our main rival, to overtake us.

I really don't know how people are dressing it up as anything other than a clusterfuck. I get the reasoning, I loved most of the season, but bad taste in mouth? Yep, and that's perfectly understandable

 

[Banny]

I'm really finding it difficult to accept. That "it happend again" song cuts through me like a knife! !

 

[guiltyparty]

This, while kind of true, completely ignores the multitude of points we had to gain to be in that position in the first place.

And no one is judging it on the usual parameters except you.

You're complaining because we didn't finish above arsenal and the players didnt look visibly up for finishing above Arsenal.

A lot of other people are judging the season on new parameters, trying not to get bogged down in the misery of losing 2nd place to a team who had been out of completions for long enough to be able to play with a relatively care free attitude.

A lot of people are seeing a bad patch for what it was, a bad patch, one that compared to most previous seasons was quite short and in literal terms lost us nothing as we were already out of all comps. We fell away "dramatically" one place in the table and missed out on winning a league we were never in a position to win.

It was a very good season, no arguments from me. I just think people telling disappointed people to 'man up' are revisionists of the highest order

"Except you". Erm read the rest of the thread, mate. That is blatantly not true, and I only waded in as some holier than thous were giving people grief

It's ok to be disappointed. You can bet Pochettino is

 

[Kilkenny Cat]

At last a common sense reaction, the end of the season has prevented us papering over the cracks and lowers expectations next season.

Couldn't agree more. We have now had TWO warnings - or demonstrations, or whatever you want to call it - that we're not as good as we thought we were. First, Borussia Dortmund (twice), then the Newcastle match.

If Levy gives Pochettino the money to take whatever corrective action he sees fit, we'll be fine. If he doesn't, then we're in trouble because we won't kick on.

And to whoever said that 70 points next season won't get us CL football again, correct. But converting half of those 13 draws into wins will do the trick.

 

[dudu]

Not trying to play down the season but I don't do denial.

They are two random isolated games, 11 games apart, that we did well in compared to two defeats in a row, off the back of two draws, our worst run for most of the season. I still don't get the comparison and how that's not a disappointing climax.

The City game was in February, with months left to play, and we'd already beaten them convincingly at the start of the season so a slight victory wasn't unforeseen. The poor run of form you compare it to was a horrendous battering to an already relegated side and a loss at home to a team we'd beaten convincingly away earlier in the season, which followed throwing a 2-0 lead the game before to a rival that had been mediocre all season and allowing two of our key players to be wound up and ruled out for the rest of the season, and at the arse end of the season - when it matters, allowing Arsenal, our main rival, to overtake us.

I really don't know how people are dressing it up as anything other than a clusterfuck. I get the reasoning, I loved most of the season, but bad taste in mouth? Yep, and that's perfectly understandable

How many games did Chelsea lose under Anchelloti again? 3 i think you will find and they did not play a single game all year than they were up for more than our game against them at the Bridge.

I also think Southampton were like 2nd in a league based on games since January.

For me, in terms of clusterfucks, this doesnt even come close.

Seriously what have we lost? Have you ever been in a really really bad situation before? This isnt comparable to any i have been in nor really even experienced when supporting spurs, its just not.

I hate losing as much as the next man but im not ready to start calling into question everything i had seen previously since August and i am not going to change the goalposts of my expectations that I had back then just because we exceeded them.

I feel like you are being very dramatic and doing quite a good impression of someone who does do denial.

If your disappointed to finish in the champions league places, above where we would have all predicted us doing and getting there by being an entertaining football entity then fair enough.

 

[dudu]

It was a very good season, no arguments from me. I just think people telling disappointed people to 'man up' are revisionists of the highest order

"Except you". Erm read the rest of the thread, mate. That is blatantly not true, and I only waded in as some holier than thous were giving people grief

It's ok to be disappointed. You can bet Pochettino is

Apologies..... its not just you xxx

 

[Shadydan]

Not trying to play down the season but I don't do denial.

They are two random isolated games, 11 games apart, that we did well in compared to two defeats in a row, off the back of two draws, our worst run for most of the season. I still don't get the comparison and how that's not a disappointing climax.

The City game was in February, with months left to play, and we'd already beaten them convincingly at the start of the season so a slight victory wasn't unforeseen. The poor run of form you compare it to was a horrendous battering to an already relegated side and a loss at home to a team we'd beaten convincingly away earlier in the season, which followed throwing a 2-0 lead the game before to a rival that had been mediocre all season and allowing two of our key players to be wound up and ruled out for the rest of the season, and at the arse end of the season - when it matters, allowing Arsenal, our main rival, to overtake us.

I really don't know how people are dressing it up as anything other than a clusterfuck. I get the reasoning, I loved most of the season, but bad taste in mouth? Yep, and that's perfectly understandable

Because there isn't meant to be a comparison, I just picked out two random matches in the season where we would have traditionally bottled in the past, @DaSpurs was talking about us collapsing "when it counted", I've just merely picked out two matches where we would have lost in the past when the pressure was really on us and we won to show that I don't agree with the statement.

 

[Bobbins]

The problem is that we let ourselves get lulled into the false belief that things had changed, that this team was different to the others and that we could genuinely achieve something.

And then reality came back to bite us in the arse and show us that nothing's really changed at all, except now possibly our ability to Spurs things up at the last second has reached even greater heights to match our bigger ambitions.

To be honest we should've realised it with our insipid performance in the league cup final last year, but it's so easy to believe things will be different every season. Won't let myself ever fall into that trap again though!