England vs ROI

[Bus-Conductor]

I've said it a few times but there is an argument for just doing what Germany did and binning all the old guys, and starting from scratch with a team of under 25s or so. Just keep them together for a while and let them grow as a team, rather than chopping and changing all the time.

I'd go with something like:

Hart​

​

Jones Smalling Caulker Gibbs​

​

Wilshere Insert DM Cleverley​

​

Walcott Sturridge Sterling​

​

I've probably forgotten a few better youngsters, but really could that team do much worse than the current garbage we get every game?​

I'd go:

Hart​

Johnson Smalling Jones Gibbs​

Cleverly Carrick​

Walcott Wilshere Sturridge​

Rooney​

​

​

or​

​

Hart​

Johnson Smalling Jones Gibbs​

Cleverly Carrick Wilshere​

Walcott Rooney Sturridge​

 

[talkshowhost86]

I'd go:

Hart​

Johnson Smalling Jones Gibbs​

Cleverly Carrick​

Walcott Wilshere Sturridge​

Rooney​

Probably a better team for the here and now, and my team was a bit extreme in that Carrick doesn't deserve to be dropped really and if someone could actually convince Rooney to play as a striker he still offers something.

Johnson should be nowhere near the team though. I was trying to think of another right back coming through (or indeed a better centre back option than Caulker) but couldn't think of anyone.

Either way Hodgson needs to actually pick a team and stick with it, because in the last few years the England team has been a complete mess. Lots of the older players are now reaching the end of their careers so it's the perfect time to start again.

It'll never happen though and I expect the next team we pick for a competitive game to be the same collection of Coles, Lampards and Gerrards as usual.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Probably a better team for the here and now, and my team was a bit extreme in that Carrick doesn't deserve to be dropped really and if someone could actually convince Rooney to play as a striker he still offers something.

Johnson should be nowhere near the team though. I was trying to think of another right back coming through (or indeed a better centre back option than Caulker) but couldn't think of anyone.

Either way Hodgson needs to actually pick a team and stick with it, because in the last few years the England team has been a complete mess. Lots of the older players are now reaching the end of their careers so it's the perfect time to start again.

It'll never happen though and I expect the next team we pick for a competitive game to be the same collection of Coles, Lampards and Gerrards as usual.

The only other RB's are Walker, Adam Smith (the U21 RB), or Henderson (Arse). To be honest, none of them are defensively better than Johnson and only Smith (from what I have seen of them all) has the potential to be better going forward.

I edited in a 433 version as well, which actually looks quite sexy, but England will never progress unless they pick a progressive manager. Redknapp would have been even worse.

 

[Huddlestone22]

I'd like to see a squad like:

​

Hart​

​

Walker Smalling Jones Gibbs​

​

Carrick​

Cleverley Wilshere​

​

Sturridge-------Zaha--​

Rooney​

​

I couldn't think of anyone more suitable to play in the holding midfield role other than Carrick, his passing range is unlikely to diminish as he gets older and Wilshere and Cleverley could provide the energy in midfield. Obviously a few people will question Zaha being in the squad despite the fact he's very raw but he's one of the very few player who could play on the left wing and provide a goal threat. Potentially Tom Ince could play there in future.​

 

[ShelfSide18]

The thing with the English national team is that the answers that people are trying to get too by selecting the best English players they see in a 4-3-3 is not going to affect the key issues that have habitually stopped England progressing as a footballing nation.

Thankfully though, change is happening although it is still up for debate whether these changes are a) good enough & b) well publicised enough to gather enough support to see these changes brought to life.

Does anyone know about the 'Future Game' document? This is the outline for how players and coaches are educated into a core philosophy that sets out the future of football in the country, from top to bottom. Does anyone know that the vision that drives these changes is to produce 'technically excellent and innovative players who have exceptional decision making skills'? Thought not, the Fa have come up with a blueprint for the future which on the face of it appears sound and progressive, but they need to publicise it better. In turn people need to realise that patience is key, these changes don't happen overnight - in Germany it took over a decade to really come to life as we have seen recently, so we need to put our eggs in the future's basket.

Last night's game was fairly turgid, and anyone expecting Hodgson to ditch his pragmatic methods for some total football ideals is kidding themselves. The teams he sets ups are searching for results at the expense of long term development, to try and blunder their way through to a respectable Quarter Final in Brazil (if we get there). I'd rather see a progressive coach at the helm, one willing to sacrifice the short term desire for results football, place an emphasis on youth and try to establish a playing style in line with the developmental aims of the Fa. It sort of undermines the 'Future Game' philosophy when the national team rock up, 2 banks of 4 straight line football from a past age. I think the key point is that whether you put England's players in a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 or whatever, they are still the same players, lining them up in a different formation won't hide the fact that we have too many average players to compete at the highest level of the international stage at the moment.

It seems that there is a genuine willingness to change the way things are done in the English game at the moment, there are some excellent people within the Fa trying to make this happen and drive this change and they need to publicise this more, they need to drive against the natural conservatism that has held us back for so long and they need to remember the next Michael Carrick we produce must get 100 caps not 20, that when the next Paul Scholes comes along we'll not farm him out to the left wing!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The only other RB's are Walker, Adam Smith (the U21 RB), or Henderson (Arse). To be honest, none of them are defensively better than Johnson and only Smith (from what I have seen of them all) has the potential to be better going forward.

I edited in a 433 version as well, which actually looks quite sexy, but England will never progress unless they pick a progressive manager. Redknapp would have been even worse.

I think he would have been better than Hodgson, they would have lasted as long as each other, but it would have at least been more entertaining. Last night's game would have been 3-3 rather than the dour 1-1.

Hodgson is just an absolute behemoth, he's the English version of Avram Grant, in everything including excitement.

 

[mpickard2087]

Yeah Redknapp would have been the better bet for me. Both were short term options but at least a Harry team would attack and provide more palatable viewing, and would probably get some of the public back behind the team as well.

If we are in a state of limbo waiting for the changes in coaching and youth development to take effect, at least serve up some reasonably entertaining footy in the meantime.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Yeah Redknapp would have been the better bet for me. Both were short term options but at least a Harry team would attack and provide more palatable viewing, and would probably get some of the public back behind the team as well.

If we are in a state of limbo waiting for the changes in coaching and youth development to take effect, at least serve up some reasonably entertaining footy in the meantime.

It seems that whoever is England manager becomes a rabbit in the headlights though and just goes back to tried and tested nonsense.

We've tried expensive foreign managers, 'up and coming' English managers and veteran managers and they've all, by and large, picked the same teams.

Do agree that Redknapp would have been the better option though. He's not really a better manager than Hodgson, but as you say he would at least have got the public back behind the team which would be a feat in itself.

 

[SteveH]

I think he would have been better than Hodgson, they would have lasted as long as each other, but it would have at least been more entertaining. Last night's game would have been 3-3 rather than the dour 1-1.

Hodgson is just an absolute behemoth, he's the English version of Avram Grant, in everything including excitement.

Hehe spot on

 

[ShelfSide18]

It seems that whoever is England manager becomes a rabbit in the headlights though and just goes back to tried and tested nonsense.

We've tried expensive foreign managers, 'up and coming' English managers and veteran managers and they've all, by and large, picked the same teams.

Do agree that Redknapp would have been the better option though. He's not really a better manager than Hodgson, but as you say he would at least have got the public back behind the team which would be a feat in itself.

It's OK, I'm only 3 coaching badges away from being qualified to coach the England team and I promise to consult SC before I pick my teams.

Spurs_Bear will be my assistant, he'll be the Freund to my AVB. He's gonna kick off when I pick Kyle Naughton.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It's OK, I'm only 3 coaching badges away from being qualified to coach the England team and I promise to consult SC before I pick my teams.

Spurs_Bear will be my assistant, he'll be the Freund to my AVB. He's gonna kick off when I pick Kyle Naughton.

You wont be picking Naughton sunshine...you'll be in pieces in the boot of my Car if you try any of that.

 

[Shanks]

You honestly think Dawson is the answer to England's problems ? He is going to up the intelligence/skill quota ?

It goes back way further than Erikson. England managers have been picking the big names since Revie and Greenwood. Maybe you are younger than me, but imagine the utter bewilderment of seeing Brooking and Wilkins preferred to Hoddle game after game. No that was a fucking mockery of three shams.

It's not about upping the intelligence, it's about who is available.

Cahill and Jakeilka aren't better than Dawson.
Granted they aren't much worse either.

If anything it highlights the issues we have.

I don't really remember much of the England teams before Robson really, so probably a fair bit younger than you.

 

[playboypaul]

I was at the match last night and the only good thing about it was the stadium and the Irish fans. There were 10k Irish fans and they easily out sung the 65k or so English fans that were there. I tried to get loads of songs going but no one was interested. The stadium is impressive. The prices weren't. £6 a program, £8 for fish and chips. £4.70 a beer. Rip off.

There were a couple of spats in the crowd too. One young Irish guy was being a dick, waving his scarf in the air, blocking the view of those behind him and standing immediately in front of someone who was sat in their seat. As far as English fans go there were a few northerners who were pissed out of their heads and shouting at the opposing fans. 'Pikeys', 'come on then you *****', etc etc.... There was no trouble in the end as far as I could tell.

I was sat next to the Irish fans for the first half and they were brilliant. Every time 'de, de, de de de, de de de de, ENGLAND!' was started, the Irish hijacked it and shouted Ireland. Fair play to their fans as they were really behind then team. They even got a Poznan going which was fun. They were all colour and noise. Constant singing, flags waving, all of them standing up, even a flare or two.

Fair play to them.

As far as English support goes, if it wasn't for the fact that the band was playing, (and being replayed through the tannoy system at that), it would have been practically silent. No one was contributing to the atmosphere at all. I moved to behind the Irish goal for the second half (above the band, in the tier above the corporate tier) to try and find somewhere where there were people actually trying to have a good time and enjoy the match by singing and supporting the team but it was even worse there. Every face was miserable, it was the worst atmosphere that I have ever experienced as one of the crowd of home support.

I don't think I will be going to any England friendly's as a home fan in the future.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's not about upping the intelligence, it's about who is available.

Cahill and Jakeilka aren't better than Dawson.
Granted they aren't much worse either.

If anything it highlights the issues we have.

I don't really remember much of the England teams before Robson really, so probably a fair bit younger than you.

Whilst neither are world beaters, both are better than Dawson. But in Snalling and Jones England have much better alternatives going into the future.

 

[Dougal]

Also worth pointing out what a stupid fucking pointless game that was last night, and what an equally pointless expedition the Brazil game will be as well. It really is time to drastically reduce the number of international friendlies because they are a waste of everyone's time.

I really enjoyed it. Screw you Moose Man.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's OK, I'm only 3 coaching badges away from being qualified to coach the England team and I promise to consult SC before I pick my teams.

Spurs_Bear will be my assistant, he'll be the Freund to my AVB. He's gonna kick off when I pick Kyle Naughton.

That's three badges away from being over qualified to coach England.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I was at the match last night and the only good thing about it was the stadium and the Irish fans. There were 10k Irish fans and they easily out sung the 65k or so English fans that were there. I tried to get loads of songs going but no one was interested. The stadium is impressive. The prices weren't. £6 a program, £8 for fish and chips. £4.70 a beer. Rip off.

There were a couple of spats in the crowd too. One young Irish guy was being a dick, waving his scarf in the air, blocking the view of those behind him and standing immediately in front of someone who was sat in their seat. As far as English fans go there were a few northerners who were pissed out of their heads and shouting at the opposing fans. 'Pikeys', 'come on then you *****', etc etc.... There was no trouble in the end as far as I could tell.

I was sat next to the Irish fans for the first half and they were brilliant. Every time 'de, de, de de de, de de de de, ENGLAND!' was started, the Irish hijacked it and shouted Ireland. Fair play to their fans as they were really behind then team. They even got a Poznan going which was fun. They were all colour and noise. Constant singing, flags waving, all of them standing up, even a flare or two.

Fair play to them.

As far as English support goes, if it wasn't for the fact that the band was playing, (and being replayed through the tannoy system at that), it would have been practically silent. No one was contributing to the atmosphere at all. I moved to behind the Irish goal for the second half (above the band, in the tier above the corporate tier) to try and find somewhere where there were people actually trying to have a good time and enjoy the match by singing and supporting the team but it was even worse there. Every face was miserable, it was the worst atmosphere that I have ever experienced as one of the crowd of home support.

I don't think I will be going to any England friendly's as a home fan in the future.

To be fair, most wouldn't know the words to Super Pavlyuchenko.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The thing with the English national team is that the answers that people are trying to get too by selecting the best English players they see in a 4-3-3 is not going to affect the key issues that have habitually stopped England progressing as a footballing nation.

Thankfully though, change is happening although it is still up for debate whether these changes are a) good enough & b) well publicised enough to gather enough support to see these changes brought to life.

Does anyone know about the 'Future Game' document? This is the outline for how players and coaches are educated into a core philosophy that sets out the future of football in the country, from top to bottom. Does anyone know that the vision that drives these changes is to produce 'technically excellent and innovative players who have exceptional decision making skills'? Thought not, the Fa have come up with a blueprint for the future which on the face of it appears sound and progressive, but they need to publicise it better. In turn people need to realise that patience is key, these changes don't happen overnight - in Germany it took over a decade to really come to life as we have seen recently, so we need to put our eggs in the future's basket.

Last night's game was fairly turgid, and anyone expecting Hodgson to ditch his pragmatic methods for some total football ideals is kidding themselves. The teams he sets ups are searching for results at the expense of long term development, to try and blunder their way through to a respectable Quarter Final in Brazil (if we get there). I'd rather see a progressive coach at the helm, one willing to sacrifice the short term desire for results football, place an emphasis on youth and try to establish a playing style in line with the developmental aims of the Fa. It sort of undermines the 'Future Game' philosophy when the national team rock up, 2 banks of 4 straight line football from a past age. I think the key point is that whether you put England's players in a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 or whatever, they are still the same players, lining them up in a different formation won't hide the fact that we have too many average players to compete at the highest level of the international stage at the moment.

It seems that there is a genuine willingness to change the way things are done in the English game at the moment, there are some excellent people within the Fa trying to make this happen and drive this change and they need to publicise this more, they need to drive against the natural conservatism that has held us back for so long and they need to remember the next Michael Carrick we produce must get 100 caps not 20, that when the next Paul Scholes comes along we'll not farm him out to the left wing!

This needed the optimistic rating. Had to settle for like.

Agree with all you say, but feel that a line up of say:

Hart​

Johnson Smalling Jones Gibbs​

Cleverly Carrick Wilshere​

Walcott Rooney Sturridge​

​

Is fundamentally made up of players that would compliment each other, would all be comfortable on the ball - from back to front - are all pass, move, press type footballers (or all play that way for their clubs pretty much), has creativity (Carrick, Wilshire, Walcott, Rooney, Sturridge), graft (Cleverly, Carrick, Wilshere, Rooney), FB's that get up and down and attack well and CB's that can play football and are reasonably quick. It wouldn't make up for the lack progressive thinking in it's manager, but it would at least have some dynamism and balance of skills.​

​

Have I just demoted bear to the clip board guy who AVB shoves when we score ?​

 

[talkshowhost86]

I really enjoyed it. Screw you Moose Man.

To be fair though you just like it when your lot are allowed to leave Ireland in groups of more than 5.

 

[Spurger King]

This needed the optimistic rating. Had to settle for like.

Agree with all you say, but feel that a line up of say:

Hart​

Johnson Smalling Jones Gibbs​

Cleverly Carrick Wilshere​

Walcott Rooney Sturridge​

​

Is fundamentally made up of players that would compliment each other, would all be comfortable on the ball - from back to front - are all pass, move, press type footballers (or all play that way for their clubs pretty much), has creativity (Carrick, Wilshire, Walcott, Rooney, Sturridge), graft (Cleverly, Carrick, Wilshere, Rooney), FB's that get up and down and attack well and CB's that can play football and are reasonably quick. It wouldn't make up for the lack progressive thinking in it's manager, but it would at least have some dynamism and balance of skills.​

​

Have I just demoted bear to the clip board guy who AVB shoves when we score ?​

Christ that's a poor team. Not slating your selection BC as that's about as good as it's going to get (apart from Cleverly), but shows how average our players are.

Thinking back to England players of the past when they were in their prime...Gazza, Lineker, Shearer, Sheringham, Owen, Gerrard, Beckham....generally supported by decent players (and yes...a lot of crap too), but our current squad is weak right across the board.

Amazing to think that back in 1996 there was no room in our squad for Le Tissier - one of the greatest English players of the last two or three decades, and now we're relying on the likes of Tom Cleverly.

And despite all of this I'd still cheer them on with all my heart if they could just muster one solitary fuck between them.