ENIC...

[spursfan77]

Were we actually successful with off the field businesses under Scholar? I got the impression that some of the ventures didn't turn out all that well. There is a piece on that very subject floating around on YouTube.

Some maybe, I think you mean the clothes business, but we were the first club to have executive boxes for example.

 

[Metalhead]

Some maybe, I think you mean the clothes business, but we were the first club to have executive boxes for example.

Yes the clothes, a computer company and the partnership with Hummel (as opposed to the knitwear company that I believe didn't do well either). In fairness, that isn't to say that there wasn't a desire for innovation as clearly there was.

 

[shelfboy68]

Were we actually successful with off the field businesses under Scholar? I got the impression that some of the ventures didn't turn out all that well. There is a piece on that very subject floating around on YouTube.

From memory I think he was trying to turn us financially into a European powerhouse but overstretched us a bit too far and the rest is history.
Since that time we have no longer been a genuine big club limited trophies and ambition, only the club seems to think we are still relevant to the wider audience but in reality we are not.

 

[spursfan77]

Yes the clothes, a computer company and the partnership with Hummel (as opposed to the knitwear company that I believe didn't do well either). In fairness, that isn't to say that there wasn't a desire for innovation as clearly there was.

Edward Freedman was the man we lost to Man Utd.

There’s a bit about him here (this like picks a page but it’s also on the page above: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...IHSgsCy04FBDoATADegQICBAD#v=onepage&q&f=false

and also:

World Ventures :: Edward Freedman

This is the official web site for World Ventures Trading Ltd. World Ventures invites new and exciting ideas, and creates opportunities to be involved in some of the most exciting new ventures, which have already been launched and in many cases have proven themselves.

worldventures.co.uk

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

I am told ENIC investment is like having a house mortgage and this is their commitment . All I know is if it cannot fulfill or do not fulfil my mortgage payments me house will be forfeited to the bank . Harsh but true Joe Lewis is not going to live forever and I still think we are in a precarious position . Whoever " exept Levy " takes control we had better hope they have the clubs best interest at heart .
Because if it is some one with no interest in football and Spurs they could sell the club for whatever amount debt and all to anyone whose intention is to make a quick buck . We will be bait for any shyster out there . To have such confidence in ENIC as owners is praiseworthy but
Any body with thoughts of what all happen to the club post Joe Lewis I would be glad to hear the views especially if it is positive .
Myself I am at a loss of what happens to the club it may be we get lucky and have the kind oo owners we can all respect on the other hand football is littered with people whose interest is in making a quick buck we would be a prime target for these type of asset strippers .

Servicing the debt isn't an issue at all.

The stadium debt is in bonds with an average maturity of 23 years. We don't have to make any repayments until then but, if we were to repay annually, it would work out at about £26m per annum. In the meanwhile we do have to pay interest. But with interest rates at an historic low, that is easily manageable at £16m per annum - especially in the context of the new stadium earning the club up to £110m more per annum than the old WHL was earning.

The other big debt that we are carrying is the Bank of England loan of £175m as emergency COVID contingency. But at a rate of just 0.5%, we are paying only £875K per annum in interest. This loan is due to be repaid this summer (though might well be extended, depending upon the COVID situation). But that isn't an issue either. Because the majority of it has yet to be spent and the club consequently has a cash balance of over £200m.

As to the club possibly being bought by asset strippers.......it is highly unlikely. In fact, I'd say that Spurs is one of the least likely clubs to be bought with such an intention. For the simple reason that we know Levy and ENIC well enough by now to be quite confident that they would extract every last penny of value from any possible sale. That is to say, any new owner wishing to asset strip would never be able to get their money back by doing so, let alone make a quick profit.

Far more of a concern is the possibility that the club could be bought by a leveraged buyout or by a leech of an owner whose sole intention is to earn income from Spurs. ENIC's legacy at Spurs will be judged not just by what they did or didn't do as owners. It will also be judged by the people to whom they hand over the reins.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

From memory I think he was trying to turn us financially into a European powerhouse but overstretched us a bit too far and the rest is history.
Since that time we have no longer been a genuine big club limited trophies and ambition, only the club seems to think we are still relevant to the wider audience but in reality we are not.

Bizarre thing to say!

Relevance, specifically, isn't determined by winning trophies.

 

[shelfboy68]

Bizarre thing to say!

Relevance, specifically, isn't determined by winning trophies.

Thanks for the update

 

[Metalhead]

From memory I think he was trying to turn us financially into a European powerhouse but overstretched us a bit too far and the rest is history.
Since that time we have no longer been a genuine big club limited trophies and ambition, only the club seems to think we are still relevant to the wider audience but in reality we are not.

Edward Freedman was the man we lost to Man Utd.

There’s a bit about him here (this like picks a page but it’s also on the page above: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yYxhBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq=irving+scholar+tottenham+"marketing"+manchester+utd&source=bl&ots=PNj8Y3_XGm&sig=ACfU3U1c1SiUwyiHfjdfEeltsd902xkK-Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilnNqr7YTvAhXoUBUIHSgsCy04FBDoATADegQICBAD#v=onepage&q&f=false

and also:

World Ventures :: Edward Freedman

This is the official web site for World Ventures Trading Ltd. World Ventures invites new and exciting ideas, and creates opportunities to be involved in some of the most exciting new ventures, which have already been launched and in many cases have proven themselves.

worldventures.co.uk

I think that Scholar had decent intentions. Before he bought the club, it was more of an institution and he obviously had lofty ambitions but essentially wanted to modernise the club. Clearly his ideas didn't win favour with everyone - Keith Burkinshaw's infamous comments being an example but the club did win a then major European trophy under Scholar as well as a couple of FA cups (could have been 3 if not for an inspired Coventry city,) and at least two decent league finishes that come readily to mind.

 

[shelfboy68]

I think that Scholar had decent intentions. Before he bought the club, it was more of an institution and he obviously had lofty ambitions but essentially wanted to modernise the club. Clearly his ideas didn't win favour with everyone - Keith Burkinshaw's infamous comments being an example but the club did win a then major European trophy under Scholar as well as a couple of FA cups (could have been 3 if not for an inspired Coventry city,) and at least two decent league finishes that come readily to mind.

Yes real shame as it appeared he did have ambitions to take the club on after a fairly successful spell.
The club has never been anywhere near that level since and we have had varying degrees of vision from ownership in turn.

 

[buckley]

Scholar nearly bankrupted the club until the much maligned Sugar saved us from being a Leeds or maybe worse .
If bankrupting the club is the price you are willing to pay to win a couple of trophies so be it .
For all my doubts and problems with ENIC I would not seriously consider we are in danger of doing a Leeds .
As I say for all my complaining about ENIC at this moment in time it is probably my discontent of the type of football that Jose is serving up that is making me aim bullets at ENIC when I sit back and look at things in a sensible way I feel they will eventually get things right .
I know this makes me look like I can't make my mind up and should grow some balls . But my feelings for this club make go over the top when I think things are going wrong . Quite childish really

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Scholar nearly bankrupted the club until the much maligned Sugar saved us from being a Leeds or maybe worse .
If bankrupting the club is the price you are willing to pay to win a couple of trophies so be it .
For all my doubts and problems with ENIC I would not seriously consider we are in danger of doing a Leeds .
As I say for all my complaining about ENIC at this moment in time it is probably my discontent of the type of football that Jose is serving up that is making me aim bullets at ENIC when I sit back and look at things in a sensible way I feel they will eventually get things right .
I know this makes me look like I can't make my mind up and should grow some balls . But my feelings for this club make go over the top when I think things are going wrong . Quite childish really

I feel like you’ve by now, painfully and without a shadow of a doubt, made your point very well, very clear and left us all in absolutely no doubt which of our owners you have negative feelings towards.

 

[Metalhead]

Scholar nearly bankrupted the club until the much maligned Sugar saved us from being a Leeds or maybe worse .
If bankrupting the club is the price you are willing to pay to win a couple of trophies so be it .
For all my doubts and problems with ENIC I would not seriously consider we are in danger of doing a Leeds .
As I say for all my complaining about ENIC at this moment in time it is probably my discontent of the type of football that Jose is serving up that is making me aim bullets at ENIC when I sit back and look at things in a sensible way I feel they will eventually get things right .
I know this makes me look like I can't make my mind up and should grow some balls . But my feelings for this club make go over the top when I think things are going wrong . Quite childish really

The thing with Sugar is that he was definitely the better option than the other party that showed an interest at the time (i.e. Maxwell). If memory serves, wasn't the Planet Hollywood owner also connected with us at the time too? There isn't anything wrong with being critical of ENIC where you think that they have made a wrong decision - personally I wasn't bowled over by the decision at the time either but my philosophy is that we're stuck with a coach or manager until the owner says otherwise so I always hope that they will succeed. There are doubtless problems at the moment but hopefully DL's decision will eventually be proven to be the correct one. If not, eventually he'll be replaced and whoever comes in will hopefully be the one to usher in better days.

 

[buckley]

Bring back le gin you seem hell bent on criticising and sometimes belittling any body that has anything negative about ENIC you need to lighten up instead of having a pop give reason why I am wrong and you are right .
Mealhead a fair observation and I take on board what you have to say with respect .

 

[buckley]

Edit third one first word should read metalhead

 

[buckley]

I even got my edit wrong I think I have to admit I am too old for this computer lark and give it a rest for a while .

 

[mumfordspur]

How much was the club valued at when they took over? How much is it valued at now? How much have enic taken out of the club?

I know feck all about finance but dont they take out about £1bn profit when they sell?

 

[LeParisien]

I know feck all about finance but dont they take out about £1bn profit when they sell?

The original claim was that Enic haven’t invested their own money into the club and that this constituted « daylight robbery ».

But the point is they have grown the football club to be far more valuable than it was when they bought it. It’s true that some of this value is from general growth in the market (a rising tide lifts all boats) but a lot of it is also from their management.

They might not have splashed their own cash but they have sustainably grown a business very successfully.

 

[buckley]

My memories of White Hart Lane go back to 1951 and have included many memorable moments and matches right up to our unbeaten home run in the league in our final season I just loved the place the excitement of turning up for matches and the match experience . The new training ground whilst fantastic in reality mean nothing to me as far as I am concerned we could train on Clapham Common if the team was coming up with the goods ,
The new stadium whilst fantastic has given me little or nothing to remember except the odd great goal scored .
So for me the stadium and training ground both among the best in the world at this moment in time mean not a lot to me really .
If in ENIC tenure they had given us a league title a couple of cups a win a European cup lets say 4 trophies in twenty years then I would be all in for them . But one league cup in twenty years does not cut it for me . We could go on to be the richest club in England and maybe in Europe who knows but I go to watch spurs for what is going on on the pitch not what is in the bank . The promise of success on the pitch next year just never seems to come . I go to watch Tottenham Hotspur football club not the ENIC portfolio .
The club is in safe hands with ENIC regards finance but they are almost on a par with Sugar in their lack of knowledge of what the real fans want to see .

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

The original claim was that Enic haven’t invested their own money into the club and that this constituted « daylight robbery ».

But the point is they have grown the football club to be far more valuable than it was when they bought it. It’s true that some of this value is from general growth in the market (a rising tide lifts all boats) but a lot of it is also from their management.

They might not have splashed their own cash but they have sustainably grown a business very successfully.

Agreed. Also worth emphasising that the highlighted extract, too, is what investment funds do. They don't just look for companies with potential for growth. They look for business sectors with potential for growth.

 

[buckley]

Whoop eeee ENIC is doing fantastic in growing the value of the club . More money for them when they sell .
Talk about " there used to be a FOOTBALL club over there "