ENIC...

[wrd]

As much as we talk about ENIC and their ambition, regardless of that, when we was talking about sacking Poch, I said repeatedly we needed a rebuild, we need an overhaul of the squad and so many people were throwing paddies, sick of the idea that we would have to go through another transition because they felt they were starved of success, moaning at me for even suggesting the idea of another transition when we've won fuck all, wanted Jose in because "he wins titles wherever he goes™".

we could have built off of Poch and hired another proper project manager to elevate us and built upon the foundations of possession based attacking football where you dominate games; which the make up of our squad was suited to; that would have been a relatively small transition, probably a few seasons.

Instead ENIC decided to do, which frankly what most of you wanted to do which was apply the quick fix, we hired a manager completely unsuited to our squad, completely unsuited to building on our foundations and now we're behind even where we were when Poch started in terms of the performances of the squad. Having gone the complete opposite direction in terms of style of play so we're now going to have to turn that round again.

So I don't see how crying about the rebuild we're going to make helps now, if we'd just fucking done it in the first place we'd be 18 months into it. Instead we're years behind where we could have been.

 

[LeParisien]

I can see the crazies are out tonight. We played a final and lost to the best team in the U.K., having been dog shit since at least November and yall come in here to complain ?

Very funny chaps.

 

[mumfordspur]

Levy has a winning mentality when it comes to return on financial investment, not so much on the playing side of things. Some might say that is something of an impediment to our progress considering we are a football club first and foremost, rather than a property portfolio.

Our (fans) interests and ENICs interests do not align.
Still the spineless weasels will wail "be careful I remember how bad it was in the 60s and 70s we dont want to be the next Chelsea or City"

 

[jurgen]

They’ve invested well past couple of summers. You’ll have to wait till late 2020s but we’ll have an amazing club that grew organically without petrodollars

Success is always a few years away, always just over the horizon. There's little evidence to suggest it will appear and we seem - no, we are - further away than we were four or five years ago. Financially, we've been going gangbusters but that's going to take a big hit now the football side is flagging. Though I'm always reminded of years of ITK saying our approach was not contingent on CL football. Let's see.

Assuming we're not quite fat enough for ENIC to cash out yet, can they please put a proper sporting structure in place, not just Phil Mitchell's older brother hitting up the European buffet circuit and Daniel Levy trying bend manager's ears about playing Harry Winks.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

I can see the crazies are out tonight. We played a final and lost to the best team in the U.K., having been dog shit since at least November and yall come in here to complain ?

Very funny chaps.

err I think it is crazy if people are celebrating after losing a final again and the team being shit again...

 

[pablo73]

Our (fans) interests and ENICs interests do not align.
Still the spineless weasels will wail "be careful I remember how bad it was in the 60s and 70s we dont want to be the next Chelsea or City"

Erm, the 60's were pretty good I think....

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Make or break summer ahead

 

[coy-spurs1882]

Make or break summer ahead

you know how it will end

 

[shelfboy68]

So what’s your solution? Hope that we’re bought by another oil rich owner? Genuinely intrigued what you think the magical solution is.

Thought as much, you haven’t got a clue. Stick to your negative ratings and leave the debating to the adults.

???????????

 

[LeParisien]

Success is always a few years away, always just over the horizon. There's little evidence to suggest it will appear and we seem - no, we are - further away than we were four or five years ago. Financially, we've been going gangbusters but that's going to take a big hit now the football side is flagging. Though I'm always reminded of years of ITK saying our approach was not contingent on CL football. Let's see.

Assuming we're not quite fat enough for ENIC to cash out yet, can they please put a proper sporting structure in place, not just Phil Mitchell's older brother hitting up the European buffet circuit and Daniel Levy trying bend manager's ears about playing Harry Winks.

Let’s face it, we haven’t always been a couple of summer away. Delays to the stadium and Covid are delays beyond our control. Things will get rougher before they get better too. I know that’s not what you want to hear but Enic are playing the long game and they’re playing it very well.

Fortunately, all the people who are angry are genuine fans and will be here when the good times come rolling .

 

[jurgen]

As much as we talk about ENIC and their ambition, regardless of that, when we was talking about sacking Poch, I said repeatedly we needed a rebuild, we need an overhaul of the squad and so many people were throwing paddies, sick of the idea that we would have to go through another transition because they felt they were starved of success, moaning at me for even suggesting the idea of another transition when we've won fuck all, wanted Jose in because "he wins titles wherever he goes™".

we could have built off of Poch and hired another proper project manager to elevate us and built upon the foundations of possession based attacking football where you dominate games; which the make up of our squad was suited to; that would have been a relatively small transition, probably a few seasons.

Instead ENIC decided to do, which frankly what most of you wanted to do which was apply the quick fix, we hired a manager completely unsuited to our squad, completely unsuited to building on our foundations and now we're behind even where we were when Poch started in terms of the performances of the squad. Having gone the complete opposite direction in terms of style of play so we're now going to have to turn that round again.

So I don't see how crying about the rebuild we're going to make helps now, if we'd just fucking done it in the first place we'd be 18 months into it. Instead we're years behind where we could have been.

There were some very vocal pro-Jose voices, who went to the extent of calling Poch a fraud and whatnot, but did most people really think we didn't need a rebuild? Trouble is that Levy swallowed Mourinho's spiel hook line and sinker and ultimately he is the one with the power to enact change not us.

 

[LeParisien]

Make or break summer ahead

@jurgen - as you can see , a lot of the rhetoric about “now or never” actually comes from our own fans!!

 

[freeeki]

I can see the crazies are out tonight. We played a final and lost to the best team in the U.K., having been dog shit since at least November and yall come in here to complain ?

Very funny chaps.

You’ve been whinging like a little bitch five times a day on these boards for the majority of the season.

If Jose was still the manager, you’d be right at it today.

If you can’t fathom folk on a football forum being a bit peeved an hour after losing a cup final, perhaps you should piss off and sneer elsewhere until you wrap your tiresome mind around it.

 

[topper]

Erm, the 60's were pretty good I think....

One league title three FA Cups one ECWC - first double in the 20th century, first British side to win a European competition, yeah, not bad! Even in the seventies we won two League Cups and a UEFA Cup. But eh, we have a stunning stadium

 

[LeParisien]

You’ve been whinging like a little bitch five times a day on these boards for the majority of the season.

If Jose was still the manager, you’d be right at it today.

If you can’t fathom folk on a football forum being a bit peeved an hour after losing a cup final, perhaps you should piss off and sneer elsewhere until you wrap your tiresome mind around it.

That’s very cordial.

I’m all for people being in the Sissoko or Ryan Mason threads having a pop. They made mistakes today that cost us. But Levy could sponsor an orphanage and people would be up in arms.

what the expression? Barking up the wrong tree ?

 

[jurgen]

Let’s face it, we haven’t always been a couple of summer away. Delays to the stadium and Covid are delays beyond our control. Things will get rougher before they get better too. I know that’s not what you want to hear but Enic are playing the long game and they’re playing it very well.

Fortunately, all the people who are angry are genuine fans and will be here when the good times come rolling .

I appreciate your points, but please let me know how you think we are playing the long game on footballing matters, i.e. the structure of our club and the people that will guide the team - not just the facilities and commercial side.

Do we have a clear footballing identity as a team? Not any more. Do we have a great scouting and youth structure in place? Not really, compared to our rivals.

 

[pablo73]

I can see the crazies are out tonight. We played a final and lost to the best team in the U.K., having been dog shit since at least November and yall come in here to complain ?

Very funny chaps.

Yeah, totally crazy man.

I mean it's not like ENIC and Daniel Levy in particular have overseen the demise of this playing squad to the point where we are a shadow of the squad we were a few years ago. It's not like they have completely squandered the opportunity to assemble a title winning squad around a once in a generation talent who they lucked out on coming through our academy and frankly without whom we would be midtable at best.

They are responsible for us going into this game with a squad and coach where most of us were expecting to get an absolute pasting, to the point where a dire, spineless performance with one shot on goal actually doesn't seem too bad. They invest in things that give them guaranteed returns but when it comes to the playing squad they have consistently failed to show ambition and take that final step when required.

But hey, at least we have one fuck of a property portfolio.

 

[wrd]

There were some very vocal pro-Jose voices, who went to the extent of calling Poch a fraud and whatnot, but did most people really think we didn't need a rebuild? Trouble is that Levy swallowed Mourinho's spiel hook line and sinker and ultimately he is the one with the power to enact change not us.

I think there was a lot who believed that Jose had the midas touch and no matter the make up of our squad that we would win titles, clearly Levy did which is the most important thing here. Turns out in reality Jose had the midas touch of shit and instead of taking our squad and pushing them beyond the sum of their parts to titles, managed to make a squad go from simply being just below taking the next step to struggling to compete with the might of Newcastle, Fulham and Palace.

We had the foundations for what could have been a transition to finally having a squad which would go the distance but we're miles off of that now. Jose played a part but the real culprit is Levy.

A couple of weeks ago I said Levy is a fixed variable because he'll never relinquish so he needs to appreciate the task at hand is for a manager to go beyond the constraints of his ownership and Jose was the wrong choice for that.

 

[jimbo]

A question that’s been growing in my mind, that I don’t have an answer to, is have ENIC done better as custodians of the club than any other reasonably competent owner would have? We hear the ‘better the devil you know’ and ‘might do a Leeds’ statements a lot when ENIC are questioned - but that depends on an exceptionally bad alternative and can we truly say that ENIC have been exceptionally good?

For the first 15 years or so I was very much in the ENIC are doing a decent job camp. They took over the club when we were languishing and returned us to where we should have been all along. (Average league finish 6th, average Premier League finish also 6th.) It felt like they were on a positive trajectory, and although it was frustrating that the journey was a long one, they returned us from relegation contenders to top six regulars. The playing squad improved and it felt that ENIC’s success and our success were tied together.

The decisions to spend when league placings and revenue were threatened rather than trophies possible seemed like a smallish divergence from ENIC’s interests and ours. The stadium a bigger one, with the desire to move the club to Stratford in order to achieve greater revenue for lower cost. We have built a multi-use entertainment megaplex that cost a lot of money when we could have built a football stadium for less. The debt attached to THFC rather than ENIC.

Now we’ve had the Super League debacle. Not just a lack of consultation with players, staff, fans, etc but an apparent disregard for them. Followed up with clinging on to the idea and the mealy mouthed non-apology. Do we believe that the increased revenue would have been used to improve the football club? I’m not sure I do anymore. Before, I wouldn’t have given much credence to the noise about Levy being out of touch, being left behind in terms of not just football but business decision making, now? Well...

For 15 years I’ve been ENIC in, the last five years (assisted by @Archibald&Crooks propaganda) I’ve slowly become more ENIC out, and the Super League debacle finally makes up my mind. Yes, there is an argument that from a business perspective it was necessary but not from a football one, not unilaterally, not if you value the club, the fans, the history, the tradition. And it’s not just that, if there are sanctions, consequences, as there should and likely will be - then it is an atrocious decision that is bad for the football club and bad for the business as separate as those seem to have become of late.

So now I’m questioning my previous position that Levy and ENIC were doing a good job. ‘Be careful what you wish for’ is the oft used cliche. But have we been selling our wishes short? Things could have been worse, no doubt. Could they not also have been better? Which brings me back to my original question: have ENIC really been so brilliant for us that they deserve to be held in such high regard? Have they really done so much better than the vast majority of football club owners could have done?

 

[LeParisien]

I appreciate your points, but please let me know how you think we are playing the long game on footballing matters, i.e. the structure of our club and the people that will guide the team - not just the facilities and commercial side.

Do we have a clear footballing identity as a team? Not any more. Do we have a great scouting and youth structure in place? Not really, compared to our rivals.

A lot of your fellow fans couldn’t give a shit about clear footballing identity. As he’s piped up, @freeeki was very clear that he couldn’t care less about our football identity - he’d trade it all in for a league or FA cup. So whilst I agree with you, there’s many who want short term success over a specific culture.

We need to improve the football side of the club. A director of football or better strategic thinking are required. I’m right there with you and expect Levy to make the rights calls on that front over the next few years.

The reality is without money pouring in we’re never going to be a big club. We might get lucky for a couple of years but we’re not going to see sustained success. So levy has done this the right way round for long term success. I’ll give them credit for that.