ENIC...

[Essex Spur]

You say that, yet last night I would say there were only handfuls of people signing against Levy and ENIC, it couldn't have been more than 10% of people. Online isn't a reflection of the match going fan at all.

Atmosphere was very toxic though, it’s the most toxic I’ve seen since the sugar era

 

[Lighty64]

I was just coming in here to ask this. I watched the Chelsea v Leicester game, Brighton v Man C, Man U v Fulham, and the atmosphere's were great seeing the fans even though they were spaced out but it was still much better. You could be mistaken for thinking that our game still had fake crowd noise watching from tv as by looking at it you would never have guessed that there were 10 thousand fans in there.

I haven't caught all the games with fans this week but if we are the only club in these last 2 rounds to put their fans in the middle/upper tiers then it's an absolute disgrace. All so they could continue cashing in on a few extra ads££.

I think they did it to benefit the acoustics

 

[spursfan77]

They did - this is from the email telling us that the ballot was open.

I didn't see that at all. Completely missed it 14 paragraphs down!

 

[shelfboy68]

Atmosphere was very toxic though, it’s the most toxic I’ve seen since the sugar era

You can't blame them gutless ending from a gutless club

 

[O'Brien]

"It needs a refresh. It's never as bad as you think, and never as good. Especially with clubs as big as Spurs. Look at the situation pre Poch and how he changed it all in a season. The biggest sides are only ever one appointment away from getting back to what they were...whether they make the correct decisions re appointments of coaching staff/board members etc, there's obviously no guarantee with anything. But they're never that far away from really pushing on."

 

[jbstarr14]

I didn't see that at all. Completely missed it 14 paragraphs down!

Yeah, they did bury it. My job however requires attention to detail at the most granular level, so I’m used to reading every single word of every document I get sent. And then reading it all a few more times! ?

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Define "recent" please in terms of our high standards. What about last season as well? What about the season before which was smokescreened by an incredible CL run.

You have a point. "Recent" is open to interpretation. To me, in this context, it means the past 10 years or so. As to the season of that incredible CL run, I know that the cracks were starting to appear but, in addition to getting to the final, we still finished 4th and qualified for the CL again. Not such a bad season, really.

Top 4 is crucial commercially, but the ambition is to try and win things - there were ample opportunities in the last 5 years to step up. Instead other clubs gained traction and improved.

Indeed, there were ample opportunities. We could, and should, have won silverware on a number of occasions. As to other clubs improving, that is immaterial to the health or otherwise of our club. We can only be responsible for ourselves.

Yes we have a lovely new stadium, but that is a false curtain, a distraction to the problems. Leicester in my opinion are now bigger than us, and it was all down to recruitment and a proper way of conducting football coherently with business. Their fans come first, their operation is clear and precise. We look like a bunch of amateurs and will continue to wear the spursy title until our board are gone and replaced with people who know what to do.

It seems to me that "doing a Leicester" has taken its place at the other end of the club comparison spectrum to "doing a Leeds" - forever cited in any discussion about why ENIC are terrible. No doubt that Leicester are currently a very well run club. But we were, until 3 years ago, at most, that model club. We have fallen hard from that pedestal, of course. We need to pick ourselves up and go again.

Also - please tell me how many seasons we have said the same thing about player recruitment and the overhaul of the recruitment policy in general. Too many years, not just the last two, but historically shambolic recruitment and poor decision making.... tell me, if it was any other job or business etc. surely they would be sacked or been made to move on? Bear in mind this is not a new thing, it has been like this for 20 years. There is an egotistic partial owner in our club, another owner who does not know what team he owns and a head of recruitment that quite frankly bases his decisions on YouTube videos.

"Been like this for 20 years"? How do you think it was that we rose from perennial mid table / relegation battlers to perennial top 6 if not by good player recruitment? The last four years, I grant you, our recruitment has been dire. But prior to that, it was among the best in the PL.

The major overhaul is simple, you do what Liverpool did and spend £300m+ in two seasons... oh wait we spent £250m apparently according to Daniel's notes. On what exactly? It does not matter who the manager is, we will continue to underachieve and make poor decisions whilst those two pals (Daniel and Hitchin) operate our club.

I have no argument with that. We have been wasteful. There is no joined up thinking with regard to squad building and hiring the right manager to get the best out of it. It is imperative that Levy steps aside from football matters.

Bale money - Wasted on 7 players was it? 2 remained latter on, one of which played about 10 games in that time.
Kane money (please stay) - probably will go to paying off the loan and wont even see transfers from it

No, it probably won't. In fact, if and when Kane is sold, I am quite confident that every penny will be reinvested in the team - just as it was when Bale was sold. However, I share your concerns as to how well that money would be spent if we don't restructure our recruitment setup.

Continuously we scrape the barrel of negotiation tactics, then miss out on the player by 5/10m - but they are too dumb to realise that actually if we do not improve the squad in critical positions we will fall apart. Then... we lose out on Champions League minimum £40m..... all of a sudden that £5/10m they were messing about to try and save seems even more of a ridiculous thing to have worried about.

100% agreed.

The last two seasons we have paid the price for poor management and recruitment - SOMEONE has to take responsibility, not the manager. The players themselves too need to sort themselves out of course but equally you cannot polish a turd in some cases. No matter the manager, a good few of these players are simply getting away with it and 100% nowhere near PL quality.

Also 100% agreed.

p.s. this is not aimed at you by the way, it is more a collective approach to understanding the fundamental problems and that they will not go away with the current setup in place.

No worries. I didn't take it personally.

 

[spursfan77]

Atmosphere was very toxic though, it’s the most toxic I’ve seen since the sugar era

Definitely. Unfortunately (and probably quite rightly) it will carry over into next season and make the next manager's job that much harder. The club need to make sure they have a few full capacity friendlies in the stadium first to get the toxicity out of the way.

 

[spursfan77]

Yeah, they did bury it. My job however requires attention to detail at the most granular level, so I’m used to reading every single word of every document I get sent. And then reading it all a few more times! ?

I let my guard down around the club, it seems. A lesson learnt!

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Definitely. Unfortunately (and probably quite rightly) it will carry over into next season and make the next manager's job that much harder. The club need to make sure they have a few full capacity friendlies in the stadium first to get the toxicity out of the way.

I really don't think that it's inevitable.

If we get the new manager decision right and if we have a decent transfer window, there will be no evident toxicity, IMO.

It won't be far beneath the surface, though, and a few poor or even indifferent results will see it reemerge.

 

[ohtottenham!]

I really don't think that it's inevitable.

If we get the new manager decision right and if we have a decent transfer window, there will be no evident toxicity, IMO.

It won't be far beneath the surface, though, and a few poor or even indifferent results will see it reemerge.

I think that's why Levy has to first get a clear, independent, footballing structure in place including the new coach, transfer policy, scouting, recruitment... and then make the public statement to fans to that effect. That would show some real intention.

 

[sidford]

I really don't think that it's inevitable.

If we get the new manager decision right and if we have a decent transfer window, there will be no evident toxicity, IMO.

It won't be far beneath the surface, though, and a few poor or even indifferent results will see it reemerge.

Completely agree. It's not hyperbolic to state that the trust is broken and relationship is quite toxic. I actually think it's like that between the players and fans as well as they have under performed for too long and a lot of fans (including myself) would gladly see the back of most of them.
While a new manager and some shiny signings might reduce the noise of the unrest as you said it'll always be bubbling under the surface and will take very little for that to re-emerge.

Future is not exactly looking rosey

 

[yankspurs]

I really don't think that it's inevitable.

If we get the new manager decision right and if we have a decent transfer window, there will be no evident toxicity, IMO.

It won't be far beneath the surface, though, and a few poor or even indifferent results will see it reemerge.

Oh it’ll be there. It wont take much for things to boil over again even in the unlikely event that Daniel does anything this summer. Why? Because we know that more than likely, the signings will fail to impress, the new manager wont get what he wants and daniel gives him all plan plan d’s, we’ll be stuck with much of the same crap players contributing to the disconnect because Daniel cant lower his prices and fans will still be charged astronomical prices.

What needs to happen this summer is Daniel steps away from all footballing matters for good. Hitchen or whoever is DOF is given the money needed and given the free reign to sell players at less than cost just to get them out, and isnt saddled with someone staring over them the entire time. That is never going to happen.

 

[Lighty64]

Oh it’ll be there. It wont take much for things to boil over again even in the unlikely event that Daniel does anything this summer. Why? Because we know that more than likely, the signings will fail to impress, the new manager wont get what he wants and daniel gives him all plan plan d’s, we’ll be stuck with much of the same crap players contributing to the disconnect because Daniel cant lower his prices and fans will still be charged astronomical prices.

What needs to happen this summer is Daniel steps away from all footballing matters for good. Hitchen or whoever is DOF is given the money needed and given the free reign to sell players at less than cost just to get them out, and isnt saddled with someone staring over them the entire time. That is never going to happen.

the thing is Hank, whoever we buy is never good enough in everyone’s eyes.

We never replaced Bale, well surprisingly that’s because there wasn’t many Bales out there otherwise RM would have tried buying a cheaper version

we never replaced Walker, we should have got Periere or whatever his name was, but at the time ITK said we failed due to third party issues, if we could have waited that extra season things might have been different, but we needed to do it when we did so got Aurier instead. When Aurier is at his best he is good enough, but not playing constantly didn’t help with consistency.

we never replaced so many players over the decades I’ve watched Spurs, it’s not just a levy thing

 

[absolute bobbins]

the thing is Hank, whoever we buy is never good enough in everyone’s eyes.

We never replaced Bale, well surprisingly that’s because there wasn’t many Bales out there otherwise RM would have tried buying a cheaper version

we never replaced Walker, we should have got Periere or whatever his name was, but at the time ITK said we failed due to third party issues, if we could have waited that extra season things might have been different, but we needed to do it when we did so got Aurier instead. When Aurier is at his best he is good enough, but not playing constantly didn’t help with consistency.

we never replaced so many players over the decades I’ve watched Spurs, it’s not just a levy thing

Nor is it a uniquely Spurs thing, you just get myopic because it's your club

 

[Lighty64]

Oh it’ll be there. It wont take much for things to boil over again even in the unlikely event that Daniel does anything this summer. Why? Because we know that more than likely, the signings will fail to impress, the new manager wont get what he wants and daniel gives him all plan plan d’s, we’ll be stuck with much of the same crap players contributing to the disconnect because Daniel cant lower his prices and fans will still be charged astronomical prices.

What needs to happen this summer is Daniel steps away from all footballing matters for good. Hitchen or whoever is DOF is given the money needed and given the free reign to sell players at less than cost just to get them out, and isnt saddled with someone staring over them the entire time. That is never going to happen.

the thing is Hank, whoever we buy is never good enough in everyone’s eyes.

We never replaced Bale, well surprisingly that’s because there wasn’t many Bales out there otherwise RM would have tried buying a cheaper version

we never replaced Walker, we should have got Periere or whatever his name was, but at the time ITK said we failed due to third party issues, if we could have waited that extra season things might have been different, but we needed to do it when we did so got Aurier instead. When Aurier is at his best he is good enough, but not playing constantly didn’t help with consistency.

we never replaced so many players over the decades I’ve watched Spurs, it’s not just a levy thing

Also to add to my reply above, so many people seem to think we have always been higher up the food chain. while in the old stadium we had 10-12 teams above us in that chain, so when it came to buying players we had to compete with those teams and we couldn't afford the fees or the wages they paid. Unfortunately over the times of Redknapp and Poch majority of that time, we were still at the bottom. Players would always pick those above us first because of the wages they would get paid, it's not always because of a clubs ambition

 

[wrd]

Levy himself speaking on behalf of the board have accepted responsibility for things going in the wrong direction over recent seasons. They have admitted they lost sight of what the priorities are and that statement came out yesterday. We then watched a terrible start to them putting it right with the most expensive tickets of any of the games welcoming back fans and then putting them up in the heavens.

Today we have an interview with our star player who has said in the past "so long as the club is heading in the right direction I will stay", today he said he needs to have a conversation with Levy and clearly he knows what he is doing by telling the board that they need to be ambitious now or he will be leaving at the first opportunity.

Prior to this we have had the ESL fiasco, the Jose appointment fiasco, the sacking the man brought in to win cup finals the week before the final fiasco and yesterday we managed to all but kill our Europa League chances with how we handled Jose leaving.

Those 2 points though, the statement and Kane telling the world he is putting the ball in Levy's court are 2 moments where you can put a marker over today and say here is the point where things need to turn around, this is the lowest ebb in a long time and now the decisions that will be made in the next 12 months will arguably be the most telling of the ENIC era.

I'm saying mark your calendars and then let's see what happens over the next 12 months. Let's hope they right the wrongs and absolutely smash it but if they are not aggressive and ambitious over the next 12 months then I will honestly be fascinated to see if people try and excuse it. This is not the time to be risk averse or keep an eye on the balance sheet, this is making sure that everything that was built by the club does not become meaningless.

I know covid makes things difficult but in some forms it also creates opportunity because we're one of the biggest money makers in the world and other clubs will be suffering far worse than us and don't have their loans organised in the manner we do but make no mistake, regardless of covid, the time to act is now and hiding behind the pandemic will not wash.

Trix suggests they may have already nailed one decision, let's hope that manifests and we kick on from here.

 

[cabinfever]

"It needs a refresh. It's never as bad as you think, and never as good. Especially with clubs as big as Spurs. Look at the situation pre Poch and how he changed it all in a season. The biggest sides are only ever one appointment away from getting back to what they were...whether they make the correct decisions re appointments of coaching staff/board members etc, there's obviously no guarantee with anything. But they're never that far away from really pushing on."

Actually, you know you’re right!!!

Things are bad at the moment though, the anti-club feeling is as bad now as anytime that I remember (a prisoner since 1971). It’s unusual that we’re not happy with the players, manager or owners, all at the one time......

..............I do think Dan has to go though.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Actually, you know you’re right!!!

Things are bad at the moment though, the anti-club feeling is as bad now as anytime that I remember (a prisoner since 1971). It’s unusual that we’re not happy with the players, manager or owners, all at the one time......

..............I do think Dan has to go though.

I'm surprised that you say that, mate.

In my experience, the atmosphere was ten times as toxic at various times under Sugar than it is now. Rightly so, too.

 

[cabinfever]

I'm surprised that you say that, mate.

In my experience, the atmosphere was ten times as toxic at various times under Sugar than it is now. Rightly so, too.

Maybe you’re right!! I’ve probably mellowed with age ?