Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Thats very true and often overlooked.

Poch would need a fair bit of time. Some are deluding themselves id they think Poch walks through the door and we instantly start playing football we saw in 2017

And the reality is it took Poch 18 months to get us playing consistently to his philosophy. Prior to that there were numerous comments about how the football wasn't any different to what we say under AVB.

 

[neogenisis]

 

[Bing]

To be fair we have built more so now than we did under Poch. We have plenty of young players for the future. I don't think this last 2 years has been the waste of time some have been making out on here. Managers come and go every few years at most clubs. I'm just glad we've been signing players during that time so if we move onto another manager we have plenty to work with. In fact if anything we've still signed more players for the future under Conte so we probably suit more a man manager who can build them. The only exception really is Perisic and he was on a free.

Truth be told I'm not sure the team is as good now as it was under Poch.....Vertonghen/Alderwereld partnership, prime Lloris, Dele Alli flying, Son flying, Dembele, Eriksen, Kyle Walker.

I know I'm picking and choosing timeline wise a bit but in realtiy, I look back at some of the players we had then and a lot of them would stroll into the current side.

 

[mil1lion]

Truth be told I'm not sure the team is as good now as it was under Poch.....Vertonghen/Alderwereld partnership, prime Lloris, Dele Alli flying, Son flying, Dembele, Eriksen, Kyle Walker.

I know I'm picking and choosing timeline wise a bit but in realtiy, I look back at some of the players we had then and a lot of them would stroll into the current side.

But it's better than it was when Poch took over and although some way off his peak side its better than the squad he left us with. We're on the right track at least now. Under Poch a lot of these players peaked at the same time. There's no reason the same could happen now. We have plenty of players early to mid 20s to develop. If we can develop them the same way we could have a great team again. Just need some more in the summer especially in defence and to build them up together. The Poch side stagnated as we failed to keep signing young players for him but under Paratici we've got the conveyor belt running again.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

Truth be told I'm not sure the team is as good now as it was under Poch.....Vertonghen/Alderwereld partnership, prime Lloris, Dele Alli flying, Son flying, Dembele, Eriksen, Kyle Walker.

I know I'm picking and choosing timeline wise a bit but in realtiy, I look back at some of the players we had then and a lot of them would stroll into the current side.

all of them would now

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Unless our next manager is currently employed (and that would mean we have a plan in place which let's face it is laughable to even think that) it's a farce for Conte to still be in the role. If our next manager is currently unemployed then shake hands with Conte and appoint the new manager, will give the manager much needed time with players which will help in starting next season.

Let's face facts our season is done, we won't get top 4 and can't see us getting past an average Milan side but even if we did we'll get beaten in next round (and potentially hammered if we get a top side). This isn't fatalism it's just being realistic.

How the fuck is it a 'farce'? The guy produced a minor miracle to get us 4th last season, we're still in with a shout for top 4 this season, could still make it to through the next round of the champions league. He hasn't lost the dressing room, and we're still picking up results. Not to mention the fact of all the personal trauma Conte has been through this season, it would be pretty poor from the club to sack him just because a few fans don't like the football we play.

Just let him see the season out and have a clean break. The obsessions fans have with SACK SACK at any sign of trouble is ridiculous.

 

[Timberwolf]

How the fuck is it a 'farce'? The guy produced a minor miracle to get us 4th last season, we're still in with a shout for top 4 this season, could still make it to through the next round of the champions league. He hasn't lost the dressing room, and we're still picking up results. Not to mention the fact of all the personal trauma Conte has been through this season, it would be pretty poor from the club to sack him just because a few fans don't like the football we play.

Just let him see the season out and have a clean break. The obsessions fans have with SACK SACK at any sign of trouble is ridiculous.

Yeah I think the only way it makes sense to sack him would be more from a 'long term' perspective rather than solely down to results. The fact he got us top 4 last season alone (and is still in with a shot of it this season) means he at least deserves the remainder of the season if we're just talking from a purely footballing perspective.

Thing is, if we 100% know he's leaving in the summer and we're committed to bringing in a new manager anyway, I think you can make an argument for making a clean break now. Especially if Conte's not feeling right after his surgery and there's a general sense that he's winding down and we're gonna miss out on 4th. If Liverpool are genuinely resurgent following the 7-0 and we keep playing we way we have been recently then we're very likely to miss out as things stand.

Either way, it's definitely not a farce if he stays. The only farce is that we allowed ourselves to get into a position where our manager is winding down his contract.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I'm sorry I have no intention of singling one person out with this gripe as it's more general but it now beggars belief to me that people still bring up the final period as a reason to devalue Poch. I think people really by now should have learnt to appreciate the context of what that final 12 months entailed. We lost Wanyama to injuries where he was unable to recover his ability due to damage on his knee's, We lost Dembele who was arguably the most pivotal player we had by far and that is still underappreciated to this day. We had to make do with Winks and Sissoko covering for them and we then had a pile of injuries as we dragged our way to the champions league final and a top 4 finish, go look at the line-ups we had in those final months of that season.

People also ignore that our stadium was delayed for 6 months, The players, the staff, the fans all thought we was going back to Tottenham and we didn't for an additional 6 months. People just completely forget how that felt, everybody hated it, it was said out loud by the players, everybody had the mental energy of people whose flights were delayed home. We then had to navigate moving into a brand new stadium with no prior pre-season to get settled. Look at Arsenal in their first season at the Emirates. They didn't have the hangovers we did of playing at Wembley for 18 months or it happening midseason. People then ignore the absolutely devastating mental impact that coming inches from winning the champions league had on the players and staff. They ignore that we made big signings, 2 of which got injured instantly as we tried to transition, people expected us to be bang at it, all new players settled in, being world class right away because they were replacing players who had left 6 months earlier, instead of easing them in and phasing old players out, a mistake we have made yet again with Lloris as a new keeper will have to come in and be bang at it day 1. People ignore that teams go through cycles. Liverpool have had 2 seasons where they've hit a wall and their club backed Klopp and he turned both of those seasons around. The first time, the season after they nearly won a quadruple.

I do think Poch probably needed a break but the fact that fans just ignore all these things and always go "oh but remember that bad period though" Well clearly people don't because they don't seem to ever acknowledge why it happened. I've never hid my love for Poch but I've rarely bothered to lament this failure of people who throw that jibe out to appreciate contextually why because I want to move forward and I certainly still want Conte to succeed but after 4 years of abject failure to progress consistently, for people to still not appreciate Poch, to still not appreciate why things turned sour, it is ridiculous to me that people still mention the underperforming final period as an argument to diminish the man's managerial ability.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Thing is, if we 100% know he's leaving in the summer and we're committed to bringing in a new manager anyway, I think you can make an argument for making a clean break now. Especially if Conte's not feeling right after his surgery and there's a general sense that he's winding down and we're gonna miss out on 4th. If Liverpool are genuinely resurgent following the 7-0 and we keep playing we way we have been recently then we're very likely to miss out as things stand.

Either way, it's definitely not a farce if he stays.

I don't think anyone knows. It's just one of those where fans are reading and hearing what they want about the situation because they don't like Conte.

I reckon it is what it is. It's been a turbulent season for Conte personally and he and the club will review their positions at the end of the season. Nothing more than that.

Bringing in a new manager now will be too disruptive. Not only from a football perspective but also being bad PR on the club. Especially considering out league position. Just let it play out until the end of the season. We have no better chance of getting top 4 under a new manager than we do sticking with Conte. It's not like when we sacked Nuno to bring in significantly better manager in Conte. This time we'd be sacking one of the best managers in the world for Poch, who isn't even as proven as Conte. Better just do it all in the summer with less disruption.

 

[Japhet]

Thats very true and often overlooked.

Poch would need a fair bit of time. Some are deluding themselves id they think Poch walks through the door and we instantly start playing football we saw in 2017

We do have a load of players who'd fit well in Poch's system (unless he's changed that). We obviously need another CB and a number 10, but I think most of the pieces are pretty much there.

 

[spurs mental]

I'm sorry I have no intention of singling one person out with this gripe as it's more general but it now beggars belief to me that people still bring up the final period as a reason to devalue Poch. I think people really by now should have learnt to appreciate the context of what that final 12 months entailed.

This isnt aimed at you but more a response in general. Now, I know Poch has more credit in the bank than any manager in our recent history.

BUT

We lost Wanyama to injuries where he was unable to recover his ability due to damage on his knee's, We lost Dembele who was arguably the most pivotal player we had by far and that is still underappreciated to this day. We had to make do with Winks and Sissoko covering for them and we then had a pile of injuries as we dragged our way to the champions league final and a top 4 finish, go look at the line-ups we had in those final months of that season.

Bringing up injuries this season under Conte has been shot down with "injuries are a part of football and every team has them". We've lost our Dembele in Bentancur this season, long term now and earlier in the season too. We had Son, Richy and Kulu all out at one point. And Lucas was already out at that stage too.

We've built up no rhythm this season, similar to that last season under Poch rhytm and momentum was non existent.

I just find it baffling it seems to be one rule for one and one for another. I get that Poch was here and did a lot for the club, but the circumstances remain the same.

People also ignore that our stadium was delayed for 6 months, The players, the staff, the fans all thought we was going back to Tottenham and we didn't for an additional 6 months. People just completely forget how that felt, everybody hated it, it was said out loud by the players, everybody had the mental energy of people whose flights were delayed home. We then had to navigate moving into a brand new stadium with no prior pre-season to get settled. Look at Arsenal in their first season at the Emirates. They didn't have the hangovers we did of playing at Wembley for 18 months or it happening midseason. People then ignore the absolutely devastating mental impact that coming inches from winning the champions league had on the players and staff. They ignore that we made big signings, 2 of which got injured instantly as we tried to transition, people expected us to be bang at it, all new players settled in, being world class right away because they were replacing players who had left 6 months earlier, instead of easing them in and phasing old players out, a mistake we have made yet again with Lloris as a new keeper will have to come in and be bang at it day 1. People ignore that teams go through cycles. Liverpool have had 2 seasons where they've hit a wall and their club backed Klopp and he turned both of those seasons around. The first time, the season after they nearly won a quadruple.

I do think Poch probably needed a break but the fact that fans just ignore all these things and always go "oh but remember that bad period though" Well clearly people don't because they don't seem to ever acknowledge why it happened. I've never hid my love for Poch but I've rarely bothered to lament this failure of people who throw that jibe out to appreciate contextually why because I want to move forward and I certainly still want Conte to succeed but after 4 years of abject failure to progress consistently, for people to still not appreciate Poch, to still not appreciate why things turned sour, it is ridiculous to me that people still mention the underperforming final period as an argument to diminish the man's managerial ability.

This I agree with. Pretty spot on..

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Truth be told I'm not sure the team is as good now as it was under Poch.....Vertonghen/Alderwereld partnership, prime Lloris, Dele Alli flying, Son flying, Dembele, Eriksen, Kyle Walker.

I know I'm picking and choosing timeline wise a bit but in realtiy, I look back at some of the players we had then and a lot of them would stroll into the current side.

They would almost all get into the current side, (tbf half of them still do) Bentancur over wanyama aside.

 

[thebenjamin]

Fairly sure the players are fed up with the will he wont he stay crap, I doubt Kanes new contract will be based on whether Conte graces us with his presence for another year.

That is literally what we're being told though, that Kane is up for staying if Conte does.

 

[djhotspur]

Truth be told I'm not sure the team is as good now as it was under Poch.....Vertonghen/Alderwereld partnership, prime Lloris, Dele Alli flying, Son flying, Dembele, Eriksen, Kyle Walker.

I know I'm picking and choosing timeline wise a bit but in realtiy, I look back at some of the players we had then and a lot of them would stroll into the current side.

I don’t think a single player we have now gets into that side

 

[sidford]

How the fuck is it a 'farce'? The guy produced a minor miracle to get us 4th last season, we're still in with a shout for top 4 this season, could still make it to through the next round of the champions league. He hasn't lost the dressing room, and we're still picking up results. Not to mention the fact of all the personal trauma Conte has been through this season, it would be pretty poor from the club to sack him just because a few fans don't like the football we play.

Just let him see the season out and have a clean break. The obsessions fans have with SACK SACK at any sign of trouble is ridiculous.

If a farce for a manager who won't be here next season to still be in charge now. He shouldn't of gotten past 1st January after not signing a new deal. What other supposed top side has ever been in this sort of situation where a manager is still in his role 3 months left of season with not even an indication that he wants to stay longer?!

That we have allowed ourselves to be in this position is a farce and is yet another example of Levy's ineptitude on footballing matters.

 

[mil1lion]

Yeah I think the only way it makes sense to sack him would be more from a 'long term' perspective rather than solely down to results. The fact he got us top 4 last season alone (and is still in with a shot of it this season) means he at least deserves the remainder of the season if we're just talking from a purely footballing perspective.

Thing is, if we 100% know he's leaving in the summer and we're committed to bringing in a new manager anyway, I think you can make an argument for making a clean break now. Especially if Conte's not feeling right after his surgery and there's a general sense that he's winding down and we're gonna miss out on 4th. If Liverpool are genuinely resurgent following the 7-0 and we keep playing we way we have been recently then we're very likely to miss out as things stand.

Either way, it's definitely not a farce if he stays. The only farce is that we allowed ourselves to get into a position where our manager is winding down his contract.

I guess the question is would a new manager want to come in for the final 2 months of a season? I imagine most would rather come in at the end and assess the squad with time to work on training. Identify players for the window and get them in early. I do actually think it needs to come from the director though. If Paratici gets cleared and stays on he should determine who the manager is. If not we get a new director and let them pick their man. That's the best structure for me. I would rather that than Levy taking another punt. Besides the relationship between manager and the one signing players has to be strong so they kind of need to be a package deal.

 

[mdharris]

I'm sorry I have no intention of singling one person out with this gripe as it's more general but it now beggars belief to me that people still bring up the final period as a reason to devalue Poch. I think people really by now should have learnt to appreciate the context of what that final 12 months entailed. We lost Wanyama to injuries where he was unable to recover his ability due to damage on his knee's, We lost Dembele who was arguably the most pivotal player we had by far and that is still underappreciated to this day. We had to make do with Winks and Sissoko covering for them and we then had a pile of injuries as we dragged our way to the champions league final and a top 4 finish, go look at the line-ups we had in those final months of that season.

People also ignore that our stadium was delayed for 6 months, The players, the staff, the fans all thought we was going back to Tottenham and we didn't for an additional 6 months. People just completely forget how that felt, everybody hated it, it was said out loud by the players, everybody had the mental energy of people whose flights were delayed home. We then had to navigate moving into a brand new stadium with no prior pre-season to get settled. Look at Arsenal in their first season at the Emirates. They didn't have the hangovers we did of playing at Wembley for 18 months or it happening midseason. People then ignore the absolutely devastating mental impact that coming inches from winning the champions league had on the players and staff. They ignore that we made big signings, 2 of which got injured instantly as we tried to transition, people expected us to be bang at it, all new players settled in, being world class right away because they were replacing players who had left 6 months earlier, instead of easing them in and phasing old players out, a mistake we have made yet again with Lloris as a new keeper will have to come in and be bang at it day 1. People ignore that teams go through cycles. Liverpool have had 2 seasons where they've hit a wall and their club backed Klopp and he turned both of those seasons around. The first time, the season after they nearly won a quadruple.

I do think Poch probably needed a break but the fact that fans just ignore all these things and always go "oh but remember that bad period though" Well clearly people don't because they don't seem to ever acknowledge why it happened. I've never hid my love for Poch but I've rarely bothered to lament this failure of people who throw that jibe out to appreciate contextually why because I want to move forward and I certainly still want Conte to succeed but after 4 years of abject failure to progress consistently, for people to still not appreciate Poch, to still not appreciate why things turned sour, it is ridiculous to me that people still mention the underperforming final period as an argument to diminish the man's managerial ability.

Great post.

If Poch is willing to stick around long-term and work on a re-building project, if he’s willing to work with Paratici (or other DOF) in transfers, he’s a bit more pragmatic in terms of his targets (remember De Jong or nothing?) then I’m all for it. This likely means Kane leaves, and we have a couple of seasons without CL. I’m okay with it if better set up ourselves for the long-term. I’d be willing to buy into a project if we are making small and consistent steps towards success following a consistent philosophy and a holistic vision for Spurs as a footballing organizination.

The real issue is that Daniel Levy needs to step back, and we get a Chairman with vision, desire to put a first class sporting organization together (from
top to bottom - academy, scouting, transfer spending) and the willingness to take risks in the transfer market.

This does not mean Levy has been a failure. He’s put us in an excellent position commercially and financially. He has drastically under-performed, however, from a sporting perspective and needs to be held accountable for that.

 

[YB123]

Great post.

If Poch is willing to stick around long-term and work on a re-building project, if he’s willing to work with Paratici (or other DOF) in transfers, he’s a bit more pragmatic in terms of his targets (remember De Jong or nothing?) then I’m all for it. This likely means Kane leaves, and we have a couple of seasons without CL. I’m okay with it if better set up ourselves for the long-term. I’d be willing to buy into a project if we are making small and consistent steps towards success following a consistent philosophy and a holistic vision for Spurs as a footballing organizination.

The real issue is that Daniel Levy needs to step back, and we get a Chairman with vision, desire to put a first class sporting organization together (from
top to bottom - academy, scouting, transfer spending) and the willingness to take risks in the transfer market.

This does not mean Levy has been a failure. He’s put us in an excellent position commercially and financially. He has drastically under-performed, however, from a sporting perspective and needs to be held accountable for that.

Again, the club and fans are far too obsessed with CL football.

Gooners have proved its not needed to eventually succeed but we have to focus on trophies and cup comps now surely? Not Top 4 and financial benefits of it.

 

[wrd]

This isnt aimed at you but more a response in general. Now, I know Poch has more credit in the bank than any manager in our recent history.

BUT




Bringing up injuries this season under Conte has been shot down with "injuries are a part of football and every team has them". We've lost our Dembele in Bentancur this season, long term now and earlier in the season too. We had Son, Richy and Kulu all out at one point. And Lucas was already out at that stage too.

We've built up no rhythm this season, similar to that last season under Poch rhytm and momentum was non existent.

I just find it baffling it seems to be one rule for one and one for another. I get that Poch was here and did a lot for the club, but the circumstances remain the same.



This I agree with. Pretty spot on..

I think injuries do need to be taken into consideration for Conte, particularly Kulusevki but I do think he has more resource available to him in regards to the bench. our midfield depth in particular is impressive considering we have Bentancur and Bissouma out. think the issue Conte has is that it's been pretty consistent regarding the level of performances from the team. From 2nd game of the season until now we haven't kicked on whereas you look at that Poch season final full season, we was smashing it up to December, if I remember correctly beating Everton 6-2. We was performing extremely well and you can see directly the impact injuries had, where as with Conte. Players have been fit, got injured, come back and there's been little if any difference. I do think he's been unlucky with the recent batch of injuries though, in particular with the keeper.

 

[Styopa]

I guess the question is would a new manager want to come in for the final 2 months of a season? I imagine most would rather come in at the end and assess the squad with time to work on training. Identify players for the window and get them in early. I do actually think it needs to come from the director though. If Paratici gets cleared and stays on he should determine who the manager is. If not we get a new director and let them pick their man. That's the best structure for me. I would rather that than Levy taking another punt. Besides the relationship between manager and the one signing players has to be strong so they kind of need to be a package deal.

I agree the DOF should choose. But Paratici was already here for the shambolic managerial hunt last year. Gattuso must have been his pick, and I’m guessing Nuno was too.

And whilst I think Paratici’s signings have been great, it’s really strange that between him and Conte we haven’t signed upgrades on Dier or Davies over the past three windows. We bought several squad players who Conte has at times seemed reluctant to use and we are still regularly using Dier and Davies at CB. You would have hoped a DOF and head coach operating on the same page would have done better in this respect.