Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[McFlash]

Its not shite. It's opinions. We all want the same thing, it just looks different for some people.

Yeah, fair enough but in my opinion, anyone saying "Conte needs to go" is talking shite, not voicing an opinion because the majority seem to have nothing else to say but that.
Or at least, they'll ignore anyone else's reasoning as to why that may not be the best course of action.

 

[dudu]

Cool, so let's just grasp for all the reasons why it's NOT possible to reproduce last season's second-half performances and form, and pretend there aren't any reasons why we could do. Gotcha.

Grasp or use context and fact?

I'm not pretending there isn't any reason why we could.

At the beginning of the season before we kicked a ball I was saying that if we can get our new signings up to speed relatively quickly and keep our big players fit we should be challenging for one of the top 4 spots in the league.

I would expect that if we go out of the CL in the next couple of rounds and have the luxury again for having one solitary game a week then we should expect a very, very strong finish to the season.

Why? because no way were we ever, ever, ever going to fill all the squad gaps that we had to in one window. No way were all of our new signings going to come in and click straight away. That is just dreamland thinking where ones own idea of what may happen is detached from reality.

And that is before taking into account an unprecedented world cup in the middle of a season where so many of the incredible international talents we have in our side would be representing their country.

 

[fish5871]

People are forgetting the number of matches in a short time along with key injuries.
All the champions league teams are struggling through this period, spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool ( except city).
Second half of the season will be much better.

also anyone notice how good Dier’s crossing was. Play him at rwb?

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

You said that one reason why City might have a poor season is because you felt their squad was thin, that would suggest that you must think that our squad compares favorably to them in their 'thin' state as you put it, otherwise you still wouldn't think we had a chance. I've been pushing you on this point because I'd like to know if that is what you think?

You were hoping for an improvement on our part which suggests you see little or no improvement since Conte came in - that is despite us having our best start to a Premier League season in our history after 10 games and more recently topping our Champions League group. If that is not showing progress to you then I'd be interested to know how you view improvement and what you want to see?

All I can do is make my argument, which I have done. Repeatedly. I'm not going to keep having a discussion about your convenient interpretation of what my argument is, despite my having clarified it several times.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Oh lord.
We finished last season strongly with one game a week.
This season we've had three games a week, injuries in key positions and there's a stupid world cup to contend with.

Do you really not see why we may not be able to perform at such a level at the moment?

That's why the more level headed posters are saying to judge Conte at the end of this season. Let's see how we do when things calm down a little and aren't so manic.

We're not the only team struggling at the moment.

You're another one just cherry-picking bits from what I'm saying, so this is pointless.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I don't think there's a single member here who's happy with our current first half performances.
Jus some have an understanding of why it MAY be happening.

That doesn't mean it's right but a bit of understanding is better than some of the moaning and Conte out shite.

The Conte out "shite" doesn't apply to me. At all. So now I've saved you a few more responses.

 

[rossdapep]

I do agree to an extent, but you have to concede that we have been shockingly poor at times.

If we played well for 1 game and then started to show a bit of tiredness for a couple of games that would be fair enough, but we've been terrible for the majority of this season.

More than that though has been the negative tactics. Yesterday was positive from the off. We weren't great in the first half but showed some aggression and adventure.

The low block is not suited to our squad or fanbase in my opinion.

We haven't been using a low block though. Our defence does not drop n front of the six-yard area like under Jose.

Conte wants his defenders to defend on the edge of the penalty area. Yes we have had some issues getting up the pitch at times but I cannot get on board with the 'awful football and 'no better than Jose' comments. Because it simply isa not as bad.

Under Nuno we didn't;t look like scoring.
Under Jose we didn't; know what we were and certainly used the low block against bigger teams. Against teams like Fulham we'd start well and then just gradually get deeper and spend 60 mins struggling to build meaningful attacks.

Under Conte we don't have that issue, at least for periods, other than the united game we've had sustained periods of attacks.

Our performances aren't poor, they are 'patchy'. Which is actually quite normal for a team that is under construction, especially one with the challenges we have faced (key injuries, tough schedule, death)

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Grasp or use context and fact?

I'm not pretending there isn't any reason why we could.

At the beginning of the season before we kicked a ball I was saying that if we can get our new signings up to speed relatively quickly and keep our big players fit we should be challenging for one of the top 4 spots in the league.

I would expect that if we go out of the CL in the next couple of rounds and have the luxury again for having one solitary game a week then we should expect a very, very strong finish to the season.

Why? because no way were we ever, ever, ever going to fill all the squad gaps that we had to in one window. No way were all of our new signings going to come in and click straight away. That is just dreamland thinking where ones own idea of what may happen is detached from reality.

And that is before taking into account an unprecedented world cup in the middle of a season where so many of the incredible international talents we have in our side would be representing their country.

Ok then I'm really not sure what it is you're arguing with me about. Or is it that I absolutely have to see everything the way you do?

 

[McFlash]

You're another one just cherry-picking bits from what I'm saying, so this is pointless.

I that's the way you feel, then I apologise.
I was trying to respond to the "why can't we play like we did at the end of last season?" part of your post.

I wasn't trying to cherry pick, just provide an answer to one of your points.

If you want to just make statements and not listen to any opposition views, then that's fine but you seem to think that the majority of replies to you are misunderstanding, or misinterpreting your posts.

I don't think that's the case, it just feels like you don't want to listen to any other point than your own.

I mean, several of us have offered suggestions as to why we are not playing as well but you're ignoring what's being said and passively attacking the poster instead.

So you're right, this is pointless.

 

[McFlash]

The Conte out "shite" doesn't apply to me. At all. So now I've saved you a few more responses.

Did I say that it applied to you?
No, I didn't so stop being so bloody immature with your replies to everyone.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I that's the way you feel, then I apologise.
I was trying to respond to the "why can't we play like we did at the end of last season?" part of your post.

I wasn't trying to cherry pick, just provide an answer to one of your points.

If you want to just make statements and not listen to any opposition views, then that's fine but you seem to think that the majority of replies to you are misunderstanding, or misinterpreting your posts.

I don't think that's the case, it just feels like you don't want to listen to any other point than your own.

I mean, several of us have offered suggestions as to why we are not playing as well but you're ignoring what's being said and passively attacking the poster instead.

So you're right, this is pointless.

I'm not attacking anyone. My initial point (which still stands) was that, even with everything going on, I don't think we're doing as well as we could and should be. And by that, at the risk of repeating myself yet again, I mean a) performances in general and b) performances and results against the teams we're competing against. Most of the responses in opposition have been to tell me we can't possibly do any better than we have been. And all I've done in return is defend my original point.

This isn't about offering explanations (for instance, do you honestly think I don't know we were playing one game a week last season? Am I REALLY suggesting we should be competing with City?) as usual it's about shouting down an opinion you (not you personally) don't agree with. I totally get that there are reasons why we can't be as good as we want to be, but that's going to be the same for everyone else to some degree. There are also plenty of reasons why we CAN be. Ignoring one to focus on the other just smacks of an agenda.

There's honestly no need to respond after this, we can just agree to disagree going forward.

Did I say that it applied to you?
No, I didn't so stop being so bloody immature with your replies to everyone.

If it wasn't brought up in response to a post of mine, I wouldn't have felt the need to respond to it

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

I don't think there's a single member here who's happy with our current first half performances.
Jus some have an understanding of why it MAY be happening.

That doesn't mean it's right but a bit of understanding is better than some of the moaning and Conte out shite.

But it's not just the current 1st half performances - it's been the majority of the season.

If you read through this thread... while many were content with results there have been a sizeable number saying the football is poor and the results not sustainable based on these performances for months. Injuries, Europe, schedule may have compounded the issues in recent weeks leading to some awful performances - they can't be used for the whole season.

 

[olliec]

I think the thing that winds up people the most about Conte is why he keeps playing Royal, and not giving Spence a go. Apart from that I think he’s doing a bang up job, but the truth is we don’t know what’s going on behind the scene with Spence.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

It's interesting that you've framed your question this way, as it suggests that the two are somehow mutually exclusive. But to answer it anyway, to me it means improved performances leading to better results. You're making a big deal about results, but against teams at or around our level we have almost none. So yes we're 4th, but who have we actually beaten? Southampton (18th), Wolves (19th), Forest (20th), Fulham (9th), Leicester (14th), Brighton (6th), Everton (16th), Bournemouth (17th). Contrast that with losing against Arsenal (1st), Newcastle (3rd), Man U (5th), Liverpool (8th) and drawing against West Ham (15th) and Chelsea (7th). One single point out of 15 against our fellow Top 4 contenders. These "results" aren't nearly as impressive as you're making out, and certainly aren't good enough to excuse what have for the most part been very poor performances. In fact, these are our poorest set of results against the teams around us in a while, so we ARE entitled to be doing better.

Defend Conte all you like - there's a lot that can be used to defend him - but please let's not pretend there isn't a lot of room for improvement with this collection of players. Yes the players need to do better, but so does he.

The point I was making is results are genuinely all that matters.

We may have lost to the teams around us, but we're still only a point of Newcastle and only 8 off Arsenal.

No matter how "poor" we've performed, we've managed to grind out the results.

Conte has some of these players performing well above their skill level as it is, it would be silly to say otherwise.

I still think we've performed as well as possible given the injuries, passing of Gian and the crazy schedule.

You're welcome to disagree.

I will say though, there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and I hate the passive starts to games just as much as anyone else.

I just don't think any manager on earth would instruct their players to be THAT passive.

 

[dudu]

Ok then I'm really not sure what it is you're arguing with me about. Or is it that I absolutely have to see everything the way you do?

Not at all. You said you expected something and that expectation hasn't been met and you seem frustrated by that. I was merely giving you a counter set of expectations and a realistic framework from where those expectations came from.

From my perspective, form over a third of a season where we are only in one competition and have all our players fit and raring to go is not entirely something to base an expectation of what is going to happen in the future on - as has been shown by any number of teams performances this season.

 

[DJS]

Conte is doing a good job with the squad, he has been hampered a bit with players such as Sanchez and Emerson maybe stepping up near end of last season and then returning to less reliable ways this year.

But this is why he needs a couple of transfer windows, as hopefully he’ll have more and more of an idea who needs shipping out and upgrading.

He is still being weird picking Emerson all the time without even trying Spence though.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

The point I was making is results are genuinely all that matters.

We may have lost to the teams around us, but we're still only a point of Newcastle and only 8 off Arsenal.

No matter how "poor" we've performed, we've managed to grind out the results.

Conte has some of these players performing well above their skill level as it is, it would be silly to say otherwise.

I still think we've performed as well as possible given the injuries, passing of Gian and the crazy schedule.

You're welcome to disagree.

I will say though, there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and I hate the passive starts to games just as much as anyone else.

I just don't think any manager on earth would instruct their players to be THAT passive.

I guess where we differ is on the quality of said results. Yes we're "only" a point off Newcastle and 8 off Arsenal, but by the same token we're "only" 3, 5 and 7 points ahead of Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool, all of whom have a game in hand. I also don't think our current form (by which I mean only beating bad teams) is sustainable over a whole season if we're hoping to get back into the CL next season.

Yes, injured players will come back, yes new players will get more settled, and yes other new ones may come in, but even with that all to look forward to, I expect more from the quality of manager Conte quite clearly is. If we have to wait for the perfect storm of circumstances to occur before we're able to perform to or exceed our capabilities, then we may as well give up now because that isn't ever going to happen.

 

[McFlash]

But it's not just the current 1st half performances - it's been the majority of the season.

If you read through this thread... while many were content with results there have been a sizeable number saying the football is poor and the results not sustainable based on these performances for months. Injuries, Europe, schedule may have compounded the issues in recent weeks leading to some awful performances - they can't be used for the whole season.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant by current. The last few months, not weeks.

I'm just prepared to see where we are after this ridiculous world cup has finished because I firmly believe there will be a massive improvement.
(Although this will probably be the case for a lot of other teams too).

 

[HildoSpur]

All I can do is make my argument, which I have done. Repeatedly. I'm not going to keep having a discussion about your convenient interpretation of what my argument is, despite my having clarified it several times.

I don't know what your argument is though. All you have said is that you expected us to show improvement and possibly challenge because other teams may have an off year. You haven't explained how or why you feel this way or why you don't view our current league position or champions league position as an improvement. We are currently above Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea in the league which I would say is us competing with them in the way you had hoped?

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Either people want to see us build a team that can challenge or they want to shit the bed every time we get to a tough part of the process and complain the whole time.

Spot on.